Avermedia EB1304MOB corruption issues persist

[Scruit 0]

 

Ugly? Yes. This is just a quick test. This is foam that's been cut to fit the HD and hold it securely while providing about 1/4" of controlled movement in each direction to absorb shock/vibration without a spring/rebound effect.

 

The DVR is also bolted to a piece of OSB that's sitting on folded duvet/comforter (along with factory rubber HD tray mounts and rubber DVR mounts). This setup is so insulated from vibration that if it can't protect a HD rated for 300G operating shock then no reasonable further damping steps are apparent to me.

 

If the HD corrupts this time then I'm going to assume that the problem is not vibration.

[tweak'e 0]

that setup will stop shock but INCREASE vibration. every time it gets a bit of shock instead of a single hard impact it bounces back and forth repeatedly. if the head can't be controlled during that bouncing then it will not record. problem of course i have no idea in practical terms of how much bouncing the drives can take before they fail to read/write.

ideally you need a shock absorber, something to dampen out the vibrations.

[Scruit 0]

that setup will stop shock but INCREASE vibration. every time it gets a bit of shock instead of a single hard impact it bounces back and forth repeatedly. if the head can't be controlled during that bouncing then it will not record. problem of course i have no idea in practical terms of how much bouncing the drives can take before they fail to read/write.

ideally you need a shock absorber, something to dampen out the vibrations.

 

What do you recommend?

[tweak'e 0]

thats just it...very hard to recommend something. maybe silicon gel pads (like some of the mouse/keyboard arm rests).

 

the other thing is the IDE lead. its not split like my Chinese one is, so its a lot stiffer and would be more prone to bad connections.

your comment about power got me thinking, possibly loose connector in the back. just vibrating loose enough to drop the power slightly ??

i do not know why they didn't just make them like car audio connectors.

[tweak'e 0]

well my test is not going good.

 

at the moment i have the DVR sitting on the front seat (fixed to the front seat actually). its not going to get any more bump resistant than that.

no video corruption just looses big chunks of footage. unfortunately once again another incident was lost

for some reason the drive doesn't recover, in fact it lost a few lots of video where it was only on for a short time.

i'm wondering if these have an issue with being turned off/on all the time.

[tomcctv 190]

well my test is not going good.

 

at the moment i have the DVR sitting on the front seat (fixed to the front seat actually). its not going to get any more bump resistant than that.

no video corruption just looses big chunks of footage. unfortunately once again another incident was lost

for some reason the drive doesn't recover, in fact it lost a few lots of video where it was only on for a short time.

i'm wondering if these have an issue with being turned off/on all the time.

 

just out of interest looking at your install picture were are you powering the cameras from. and also where are you getting the feed for the dvr.

[tweak'e 0]

i think your meaning scuits install picture, i havn't put one up of mine.

cameras run off DVR output and DVR feed is straight off battery through a relay for on/off.

 

scruit ....i had a thought. what cache is on those 2.5" drives? proberly only 2meg. bigger the cache may give it more time to recover between impacts. but that only works if the drive can write twice as fast as the data is coming in. if your maxing out the drive it won't help at all.

also a rethink of the foam on the HD. it may help. i forgot about the weight of your 2.5" drive. the stock rubber may not actually work because the drive is so light weight. might be better to go for a standard 3.5" desktop drive, a bit heavier, certainly faster and has more cache.

[Scruit 0]

I have tried 3.5" desktop hard drives, but they don't work down to the temps we see in winter. Gonna be -18c this weekend. Last year it got down to -30c in this area. Park the car outside for an hour and the drive simply won't spin up. The operating shock rating is only a fraction of this automotive drive also.

 

This hard drive is specifically designed to go in a car and handle the cold/hot temps and vibration/shock. That's another reason that I'm not thinking my problem is vibration or shock - at least not at the hard drive level.

 

There's a few different connections in there that could be getting a flaky signal due to vibration.

 

Well I was going to run a 10 gauge wire and as I got in there I realized the ground connection for the whole system is a 16 guage cable. Not good. I added a 10 gauge ground wire about 20cm long direct to a good ground point. Also I use an ammeter to see how much current is being used - about 2 amps without the screen on, 3 amps with it on. Gonna look up max amp draw over distance. The DVR is connected to a constant +12 that was already in the trunk (trunk light) but that goes to the front of the car and is a 14 gauge wire. I have to figure out how big that fuse is (the extra 3amps may require a slightly bigger fuse).

[Scruit 0]

The automotive HD (Seagate ST980818AM) has an 8MB cache.

 

The DVR is controlled by a power controller I made myself, and there's a fuse subpanel I added for everything. The DVR and screen are on one fuse - and it's a 3 amp fuse. Well, they draw 3amps, so I'm pretty close to the limit there. Seems to me that a fuse near it's limit tends to act as a resistor, so I wonder if the small fuse is reducing the current/voltage at all?

 

I put in a 5amps fuse instead. We'll see if that helps.

 

The circuit I'm drawing from has a 20 amp fuse and is 14 or 16 gauge wire (which is good to about 8 amps over about 4 metres / 12 feet) So that wire is fine.

 

So at this point I should have no issues with voltage/current, the wires are all capable of carrying many times the measured current requirments of the system. The DVR is cradled like a newborn baby and the HD is a ruggedized autmotive unit that reprts no errors in SMART and no bad sectors.

 

I checked right now - I have 4 days history and no corrupt video as of right now. I'll run this for 2 weeks and recheck for corruption.

[tweak'e 0]

i wouldn't run it off the trunk light feed. run a separate feed straight off the battery.

trunk feed is just open to too many problems. eg boot vibrating and light flickering on makes spikes to the DVR.

 

talking of shock, i noticed todays recording it cut out for 6 minutes but there is no bump on the road where it started.

it had cut out when i hit the big bumps on the unsealed road and it didn't resume recording either. i checked when i stopped, the HD light was dead. it didn't do that with the old drive.

[tomcctv 190]

i wouldn't run it off the trunk light feed. run a separate feed straight off the battery.

trunk feed is just open to too many problems. eg boot vibrating and light flickering on makes spikes to the DVR.

 

talking of shock, i noticed todays recording it cut out for 6 minutes but there is no bump on the road where it started.

it had cut out when i hit the big bumps on the unsealed road and it didn't resume recording either. i checked when i stopped, the HD light was dead. it didn't do that with the old drive.

 

can you tell me what eb1304mob you have. avermedia stoped making eb1304mob 8 months ago because of HD problems. they brought out a brand new eb1304mob 6 months ago. the way to tell if you have new or old model

 

the new eb1304mob has vga and bnc output. usb on front for download.

 

http://www.cctvengineer.com/MOB1304.jpeg

http://www.cctvengineer.com/Illustration-MOB1304.jpeg

[tweak'e 0]

going by the age i would say old version. tho this has vga and bnc output and front usb (tho not double as in pic). this is the older IDE version not the newer SATA version.

 

what sort of HD problems where they having?

[tomcctv 190]

going by the age i would say old version. tho this has vga and bnc output and front usb (tho not double as in pic). this is the older IDE version not the newer SATA version.

 

what sort of HD problems where they having?

the HD problem was they would only run on WD green (lowpower)

also here is spec for the eb1304mob.

 

iStable software to fix shaking and jolts impact on video

Shockproof by rubber vibration insulator and brackets

Support 2.5" or 3.5" hot swappable HDD

Power circuit protection for peak voltage

7 Segment LED to display setting information and product status

Stable power supply for cameras and able to operate under low voltage

Provide 1 Video & I VGA output (CCTV+LCD)

Selectable function to operate the fan system automatically and stop HDD recording when overheated

2 years Warranty

Stable power supply for 4 cameras and able to operate under low voltage

GPS function – showing vehicle location and speed in both live and recorded video (GPS receiver required)

Dual-monitor function can be output as rear view monitor and general LCD or TV monitor simultaneously

Support up to 4CH PTZ control

[tweak'e 0]

going by the age i would say old version. tho this has vga and bnc output and front usb (tho not double as in pic). this is the older IDE version not the newer SATA version.

 

what sort of HD problems where they having?

the HD problem was they would only run on WD green (lowpower)

 

 

silly thing there is i was running one of the WD blue series which is on the hardrive compatibility list for the 1304mob.

 

do you know what the hardrive power limits are ? i might get another of the blue drives or get the bigger version (more cache but more power hungry).

[tomcctv 190]

going by the age i would say old version. tho this has vga and bnc output and front usb (tho not double as in pic). this is the older IDE version not the newer SATA version.

 

what sort of HD problems where they having?

the HD problem was they would only run on WD green (lowpower)

 

 

silly thing there is i was running one of the WD blue series which is on the hardrive compatibility list for the 1304mob.

 

do you know what the hardrive power limits are ? i might get another of the blue drives or get the bigger version (more cache but more power hungry).

 

 

the blue only has 16mb cache and the green has a 64mb cache. the green also uses a lot less power so not putting a load on your dvr.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=773

[tweak'e 0]

these units use IDE hard drives not SATA.

[tomcctv 190]

these units use IDE hard drives not SATA.

sorry i sent wrong link. it is also made in IDE.

[Scruit 0]

these units use IDE hard drives not SATA.

sorry i sent wrong link. it is also made in IDE.

 

You sure about that? I cannot find any green ide drives.

[tweak'e 0]

did a bit more checking today......i noticed it had cut out again ! did a little vibration testing (like hitting it !) and found that its fine for up/down and side to side. however the slightest hit front to rear and the hardrive starts seeking and if continued it cuts out all together.

sounds like i have a drive that has a weak spot.

 

any ideas on the max power draw you can have with the hardrive ?

[Scruit 0]

did a bit more checking today......i noticed it had cut out again ! did a little vibration testing (like hitting it !) and found that its fine for up/down and side to side. however the slightest hit front to rear and the hardrive starts seeking and if continued it cuts out all together.

sounds like i have a drive that has a weak spot.

 

Do you have a screen that you can have displaying the DVR output while you are driving? I used to have a lilliput 7" lcd screen attached to my windshield using a RAM suction mount.

 

When I am driving I can glance at the screen and make sure that all is well with the DVR. If something causes the HD to become disconnected then all the text from the DVR will turn red.

 

I had a large block of time go missing from my DVR that was because the contents of my trunk hit the dvr under heavy braking (even though it's protected by thick 1/2" plywood) which knocked the drive tray loose. All the text on the screen went red. I pulled over and pushed the drive back in to place.

 

I'd be interested to hear if your display test is white (the DVR thinks all is well with the HD) during the blocks of time where it's not recording.

 

 

When it 'cuts out' what symptoms are you seeing? HD light off?

[tweak'e 0]

i can't see the screen when driving. (more to do with legal issues).

 

however i did manage to check the HD light on the front. with moderate bumps it lights up solid. to many bumps and it goes out for a long time, which corresponds with the lack of recording.

its stuck to the spare seat at the moment so its not exactly getting big bumps either.

[tweak'e 0]

an update....

been fault finding some more. cradle was a bit loose opened up the DVR and re did the tension on the 'fingers' that hold the cradle. also lined up the connection better. cleaned a bit of dirt out of the connection.

hard drive was turning off fairly constantly, which i thought was due to vibration. however what little vid i did get showed it wasn't turning off on some of the big bumps.

found a camera cable had broken (my fault with all the moving around of the DVR and wires).

by chance i found that removing power feed to the cameras caused the drive to completely stop. seams to be touchy with sudden changes in power.

removed IR out of the camera (not really needed and works fine without it. it was on the list to do anyway) to reduce any sudden volt drop as the LED's turned on/off. still no change.

 

anyway tonight i happened to kick the floor a bit with my boot and the drive stopped. tried it again, and finally narrowed it down. the main earth screw had come loose !

in all this the DVR had never turned off or even flickered. only the drive stopped recording.

so after kicking myself for an apprentices mistake, i've redone the earth lines to a good solid bolt. basic test and it seams ok. fingers crossed for full test tomorrow.

 

the weird thing about it tho, i had dual earth lines on it. one straight off the DVR body. so their can't be a very good connection between main board earth and chassi.

[tomcctv 190]

an update....

been fault finding some more. cradle was a bit loose opened up the DVR and re did the tension on the 'fingers' that hold the cradle. also lined up the connection better. cleaned a bit of dirt out of the connection.

hard drive was turning off fairly constantly, which i thought was due to vibration. however what little vid i did get showed it wasn't turning off on some of the big bumps.

found a camera cable had broken (my fault with all the moving around of the DVR and wires).

by chance i found that removing power feed to the cameras caused the drive to completely stop. seams to be touchy with sudden changes in power.

removed IR out of the camera (not really needed and works fine without it. it was on the list to do anyway) to reduce any sudden volt drop as the LED's turned on/off. still no change.

 

anyway tonight i happened to kick the floor a bit with my boot and the drive stopped. tried it again, and finally narrowed it down. the main earth screw had come loose !

in all this the DVR had never turned off or even flickered. only the drive stopped recording.

so after kicking myself for an apprentices mistake, i've redone the earth lines to a good solid bolt. basic test and it seams ok. fingers crossed for full test tomorrow.

 

the weird thing about it tho, i had dual earth lines on it. one straight off the DVR body. so their can't be a very good connection between main board earth and chassi.

 

i stoped using the 1304mob and for 3 weeks i have had running in a cab the 1304 sata with no problems at all even with pwerering down and up all the time.

 

good to see you have found the fault

[tweak'e 0]

well it seams to have fixed it ! ! !

 

it didn't cut out ANY footage today and certainly didn't turn the drive off.

now i just have to modify the vehicle a bit to actually be able to mount it properly.

[WRS_Mark 0]

 

i stoped using the 1304mob and for 3 weeks i have had running in a cab the 1304 sata with no problems at all even with pwerering down and up all the time.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you considered running the 1304sata directly off the battery? I tried that last June using a 2.5" 250GB WD Scorpio Black HD and "Step Up, Step Down" voltage regulator (12.08VDC constant output). Anyway, the DVR ran for over 2 days on a small, half charged car battery (cameras powered by another source). Seems that might be a good way to go.