Help plan my 1st Home Surveillance System

[IctusBrucks 0]

Hello,

 

I'm looking to set up 4-6 cameras outside my home to keep an eye on the property as I have some valuable equipment located outside.

 

At first I wanted to go analogue since it seems a bit easier to setup, but I also want to have access through my iPhone, and it seems IP cameras are the way to go for data streaming options.

 

So I want to set up a POE IP camera network, but I do not know all of the pieces of the puzzle. This whole IP camera thing is new to me, so please have patience

 

Is it possible to have a complete system with just:

 

Cameras -> POE Switch -> Router -> The rest software run off my PC?

 

Or is there a better way of doing it? Not sure how I feel about using my PC as the main recording device; will it affect performance as it's writing to the HDD constantly? Would it be easier/better to use a separate hardware-box NVR to handle the recording stuff? And if so, can you please give me a clue how an NVR hooks up to IP cameras??? Does it just plug into the router next to the POE switch and just works??

 

I do not yet know what Cameras I want, since I don't really know how they work. Do the cameras usually come with PC software? Is the PC software purchased separately?

 

 

 

I'd appreciate anybody pointing my in the right direction here, since I don't really know what role an NVR plays in an IP system vs just using the PC. Please clue me in if I am talking nonsense or missing something huge

 

thanks for reading

-ryan

[Soundy 1]

At first I wanted to go analogue since it seems a bit easier to setup, but I also want to have access through my iPhone, and it seems IP cameras are the way to go for data streaming options.

 

IP cameras will allow you to view the cameras directly, but most DVRs (which you would use to record the analog cameras) have network-viewing support, some via web browser, some via remote client application.

 

So I want to set up a POE IP camera network, but I do not know all of the pieces of the puzzle. This whole IP camera thing is new to me, so please have patience

 

It sounds like you have at least a basic knowledge of networking, so that makes it a lot easier: just think of each IP cam like another network device, be it computer, printer, etc. Just plug it into the network, configure it, then aim it. Most of them, you use a provided utility to give the camera an IP (or tell it to use DHCP from your router), then do the more advanced setup through a browser.

 

Is it possible to have a complete system with just:

 

Cameras -> POE Switch -> Router -> The rest software run off my PC?

 

Yes.

 

Or is there a better way of doing it? Not sure how I feel about using my PC as the main recording device; will it affect performance as it's writing to the HDD constantly? Would it be easier/better to use a separate hardware-box NVR to handle the recording stuff? And if so, can you please give me a clue how an NVR hooks up to IP cameras??? Does it just plug into the router next to the POE switch and just works??

 

Well, you'd have to tell the NVR the IP addresses of your cameras, and configure it with your record parameters, but yeah, that's about all there is to it. Personally, I'd suggest a separate PC for recording - they tend to be a lot more flexible and upgradeable than the homogeneous little black boxes you can get.

 

I do not yet know what Cameras I want, since I don't really know how they work. Do the cameras usually come with PC software? Is the PC software purchased separately?

 

The answer is, "it depends". Some cameras include some very basic recording software. Others can record internally (SD card or internal flash memory). Some can also send images and via via email or ftp. Or, you can get a NAS box ("network attached storage"), which is just a box with a bunch of drives that you connect to your network - some cameras will support saving directly to some NAS devices, and then you just access the saved footage from your PC.

 

I'd appreciate anybody pointing my in the right direction here, since I don't really know what role an NVR plays in an IP system vs just using the PC. Please clue me in if I am talking nonsense or missing something huge

 

thanks for reading

-ryan

 

NVR = "Network Video Recorder". Its primary purpose is to record the video from network cameras. It can be a standalone box, or a PC with NVR software on it.

[IctusBrucks 0]

Thanks for the great reply.

 

 

IP cameras will allow you to view the cameras directly, but most DVRs (which you would use to record the analog cameras) have network-viewing support, some via web browser, some via remote client application.

 

Quick clarification: I'm aware that many DVRs have this, but I am warry of spending the money and then not liking a particular implementation (seems to be no user feedback on any of the iphone supported dvrs).

 

For example I almost bought a Platinum-CCTV DVR since they advertise iPhone support.... then I saw an actual demo of this "iphone suppport" and it was basically a website that just auto-refreshes a static image every 1 or 2 seconds.... crappy having to see the whole page refresh and redraw every second, I wouldn't even call it usable. So I'd rather not gamble on a potentially bad implementation and instead go with something more open.

 

 

I also like the idea of running a second PC for the NVR part, but I have been trying to cut down on my electric bill and don't love the idea of running another PC 24/7. So the NAS box is attractive since I assume they don't use as much power as another PC (same for the 'black box' nvrs?)

 

Could you possibly suggest a good brand of camera that works with NAS boxes???

[cglaeser 0]

Could you possibly suggest a good brand of camera that works with NAS boxes???

 

Axis, Mobotix, and Panasonic. Axis is probably best with NAS. Mobotix is reportedly good, but I don't have personal experience. Panasonic is OK with NAS, but lacks some Axis features. For example, Axis can create new date/time folders via ftp, and can ftp event preview; Panasonic can not.

 

Regarding 24/7 power, it's seldom mentioned, but is becoming very expensive. It's more than $3 per watt per year in our neighborhood, which means that a 200 watt DVR can cost $700 per year for electricity. And that's not including the cameras.

 

Best,

Christopher

[IctusBrucks 0]

Could you possibly suggest a good brand of camera that works with NAS boxes???

 

Axis, Mobotix, and Panasonic. Axis is probably best with NAS. Mobotix is reportedly good, but I don't have personal experience. Panasonic is OK with NAS, but lacks some Axis features. For example, Axis can create new date/time folders via ftp, and can ftp event preview; Panasonic can not.

 

Thanks for the suggestions, I will start looking into different Axis models.

 

Can you confirm that even if I am running the software on my PC as the NVR, and using a separate NAS, the camera would send the data to the NAS without bogging down the PC in the process?

 

Regarding 24/7 power, it's seldom mentioned, but is becoming very expensive. It's more than $3 per watt per year in our neighborhood, which means that a 200 watt DVR can cost $700 per year for electricity. And that's not including the cameras.

 

Indeed... my powerbill already gets up over $400/mo in the summer and $250/mo in the winter.... I blame the reef aquarium and the cost to maintain the water temperature Unfortunately much of the equipment is located outdoors so I'd like to point a camera at it incase anybody gets a bright idea.

[cglaeser 0]

Can you confirm that even if I am running the software on my PC as the NVR, and using a separate NAS, the camera would send the data to the NAS without bogging down the PC in the process?

 

Yes, Axis can ftp at the same time the NVR is recording. Be sure all other all requirements will be met (e.g. low light performance, etc).

 

Best,

Christopher

[Voipmodo 0]

If you have seen any of our previous posts, we lean heavily towards mobotix for IP Cameras. They are 3 megapixel day/ 1 mega night options, Poe, No moving parts, use less then 4watts of power with no heater needed, and come with free software with no licensing fees etc.

 

You can stream the footage to a pc or NAS device to record or you can even record directly inside the camera with up to 32gb of storage. Each camera internally has a built in server that can send you email alerts for motion detection, temperature, and a number of other variables.

 

For a home setup with motion activated recording you should be fine with the internal storage depending on your needs. In this case all you would need is Cameras- POE Switch- Router- and you would be all set.

 

Depending on your site plan you can also use the Mobotix Q24 Model that offers 360degree recording that can sometimes replace up to 4 traditional cameras. This may save additional money.

 

Their site is www.mobotix.com and if you have questions on a model feel free to ask us or I believe Wireguys and few others on the forum carry and can support them pretty well.

 

 

Could you possibly suggest a good brand of camera that works with NAS boxes???

 

Axis, Mobotix, and Panasonic. Axis is probably best with NAS. Mobotix is reportedly good, but I don't have personal experience. Panasonic is OK with NAS, but lacks some Axis features. For example, Axis can create new date/time folders via ftp, and can ftp event preview; Panasonic can not.

 

Thanks for the suggestions, I will start looking into different Axis models.

 

Can you confirm that even if I am running the software on my PC as the NVR, and using a separate NAS, the camera would send the data to the NAS without bogging down the PC in the process?

 

Regarding 24/7 power, it's seldom mentioned, but is becoming very expensive. It's more than $3 per watt per year in our neighborhood, which means that a 200 watt DVR can cost $700 per year for electricity. And that's not including the cameras.

 

Indeed... my powerbill already gets up over $400/mo in the summer and $250/mo in the winter.... I blame the reef aquarium and the cost to maintain the water temperature Unfortunately much of the equipment is located outdoors so I'd like to point a camera at it incase anybody gets a bright idea.

[IctusBrucks 0]

Thanks,

 

The M12 looks excellent but is a bit out of my price target for this.

 

The Q24 looks interesting, but isn't it only indoor? I'm only interested in outdoor cameras at the moment.

 

 

Anybody have knowledge of Vivotek cameras? Their IP7330 looks to have mostly what I need at a good price, but I do not know if it supports saving to NAS.

 

The axis models seem nice, but their lowest model starts at a higher price than the Vivotek's.... of course I'm not saying its not a fair price, just that I'm hoping not to spend $2000 on cameras.

[thewireguys 3]

Thanks,

 

The M12 looks excellent but is a bit out of my price target for this.

 

The Q24 looks interesting, but isn't it only indoor? I'm only interested in outdoor cameras at the moment.

 

 

Anybody have knowledge of Vivotek cameras? Their IP7330 looks to have mostly what I need at a good price, but I do not know if it supports saving to NAS.

 

The axis models seem nice, but their lowest model starts at a higher price than the Vivotek's.... of course I'm not saying its not a fair price, just that I'm hoping not to spend $2000 on cameras.

 

For recording directly to a NAS Mobotix is the way to go...... Yes Axis will FTP images to folders for recording but Mobotix does that behind the scenes. When you look at recorded images stored on the NAS with the Mobotix you will be looking a GUI interface unlike Axis and Panasonic.

 

According to the specs on the IP7330 it does support "Event notification using HTTP, SMTP, or FTP" but Mobotix is the way to go with NAS.

 

All of Mobotix cameras are outdoor rated and if you don't need B/W you could go with the M24.

[IctusBrucks 0]

Thanks,

 

It seems to get good NAS support I have to jump up several price levels in the cameras. Since I will probably be getting 6 cameras, it seems like a better choice in my case to go with an NVR to handle the recording and then get a bit cheaper cameras.

 

 

What makes a device like the NUUO NVRmini better than just getting a small, cheap Intel ATOM computer??? The NUUO specs don't tell me about power consumption but I bet I could find an ATOM computer that doesn't use much juice.

[thewireguys 3]

I have been building Atom based NVRs for awhile and they use about 30-40watts. The trick is using the correct NVR software..... I have install the Mini's and they are nice but you can build a Atom NVR with software licenses for cheaper, also the Mini will not work with the Iphone.

[IctusBrucks 0]

Mmm didnt think about that. I thought the nuuo didnt need to support the iphone, i thought you can access ip cameras directly using certain iphone apps like total control ?? Does the nuuo interfere with this, or you mean doesnt provide its own iphone interface?

 

Also, could you suggest some decent nvr software? I remember hearing one that was "blue"something or other?

 

Sent from iphone

[thewireguys 3]

Mmm didnt think about that. I thought the nuuo didnt need to support the iphone, i thought you can access ip cameras directly using certain iphone apps like total control ?? Does the nuuo interfere with this, or you mean doesnt provide its own iphone interface?

 

Also, could you suggest some decent nvr software? I remember hearing one that was "blue"something or other?

 

Sent from iphone

 

I recommend Exacq...... It's works great on a Atom and supports Windows, Linux, Mac, Windows mobile, Blackberry and Iphone.

 

This 8 channel mini is around $2000 plus hard drives, iPhone app and it is limited to 8 cameras. You could build a Atom Exacq NVR with licenses for less then that easy.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Guest

[Soundy 1]

For example I almost bought a Platinum-CCTV DVR since they advertise iPhone support.... then I saw an actual demo of this "iphone suppport" and it was basically a website that just auto-refreshes a static image every 1 or 2 seconds.... crappy having to see the whole page refresh and redraw every second, I wouldn't even call it usable. So I'd rather not gamble on a potentially bad implementation and instead go with something more open.

 

Keep in mind the bandwidth you have available - the poor redraws may be more a function of your phone's data rate than of implementation of the client, and there may be no way around it. The upstream speed of the internet connection the DVR is on comes into play as well: I don't know if any still do, but I know some DSL providers used to limit upstream to 128kbit.

 

There may also be settings in the DVR to accommodate different connection feeds, with the DVR adjusting framerate and/or compression when re-processing for the internet stream.

 

I also like the idea of running a second PC for the NVR part, but I have been trying to cut down on my electric bill and don't love the idea of running another PC 24/7. So the NAS box is attractive since I assume they don't use as much power as another PC (same for the 'black box' nvrs?)

 

A NAS has the added advantage of being useful on your home network as a file/media/music server; some also have web/ftp server functionality with MYSQL/PHP support.

 

The one important thing to remember, if you do go that route, is that just as not all cameras support it, not all NAS systems support direct camera capture either.