which kind of cameras will be popular in the coming 2 years?

[rory 0]

Can u provide your own examples of "simple viewer to a Networked system please" ?

and what do u mean by " non IP systems" ? reg coax and analog ?

 

Come on now, you know exactly what he means.

I mean I realize there may be a slight language barrier but it cant be that bad, most of what we talk about on this forum is Remote Network Software for DVRs.

[tweak'e 0]

i should add.....

 

what i don't like about analog is you have digital chip whose output then gets converted to analog (losses some quality) goes through cable (looses more quality) then gets converted back to digital in the DVR. so why not get rid of all that analog conversion?

a lot of small setups don't need IP, its going to be wired direct to DVR anyway. why use IP addys, onboard compression etc etc when you don't need it.

hopefully that would allow SMALL digital cameras to replace the existing mini analogs and no losses (within reason) due to cable etc.

[ak357 0]

i should add.....

 

what i don't like about analog is you have digital chip whose output then gets converted to analog (losses some quality) goes through cable (looses more quality) then gets converted back to digital in the DVR. so why not get rid of all that analog conversion?

a lot of small setups don't need IP, its going to be wired direct to DVR anyway. why use IP addys, onboard compression etc etc when you don't need it.

hopefully that would allow SMALL digital cameras to replace the existing mini analogs and no losses (within reason) due to cable etc.

 

No compression ?

How do u propose we deal with astronomical amount of data coming from camera ?

[tweak'e 0]

i should add.....

 

what i don't like about analog is you have digital chip whose output then gets converted to analog (losses some quality) goes through cable (looses more quality) then gets converted back to digital in the DVR. so why not get rid of all that analog conversion?

a lot of small setups don't need IP, its going to be wired direct to DVR anyway. why use IP addys, onboard compression etc etc when you don't need it.

hopefully that would allow SMALL digital cameras to replace the existing mini analogs and no losses (within reason) due to cable etc.

 

No compression ?

How do u propose we deal with astronomical amount of data coming from camera ?

 

light compression or lossless compression. easy enough to do light compression with low spec chips. yes its still high amount of data compared to mpeg4, but your not putting it through a lan so it doesn't matter. the DVR does all the converting to say mpeg4 just like an analog does now.

[ak357 0]

 

light compression or lossless compression. easy enough to do light compression with low spec chips. yes its still high amount of data compared to mpeg4, but your not putting it through a lan so it doesn't matter. the DVR does all the converting to say mpeg4 just like an analog does now.

 

Looks like we are talking about HD-SDI cameras

that what they trying to do

no compression by camera transmit using coax and capture card will compress

 

just for info

standard, known as high-definition serial digital interface (HD-SDI),

is standardized in SMPTE 292M; this provides a nominal data rate of 1.485 Gbit/s.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Guest

[tweak'e 0]

 

light compression or lossless compression. easy enough to do light compression with low spec chips. yes its still high amount of data compared to mpeg4, but your not putting it through a lan so it doesn't matter. the DVR does all the converting to say mpeg4 just like an analog does now.

 

Then we are talking about HD-SDI cameras

that what they trying to do

no compression by camera transmit using coax and capture card will compress

 

just for info

standard, known as high-definition serial digital interface (HD-SDI),

is standardized in SMPTE 292M; this provides a nominal data rate of 1.485 Gbit/s.

 

off the top of my head i think coax can do it, but range is the problem. 30-60m ??

however lower grade non-HD cameras will not need that bandwidth. easly half that.

 

mind you at the rate they are going and the rate of chip development they may have a low power, low compression, cheap chip out. cut the data rate in half.

[ak357 0]

 

off the top of my head i think coax can do it, but range is the problem. 30-60m ??

however lower grade non-HD cameras will not need that bandwidth. easly half that.

 

mind you at the rate they are going and the rate of chip development they may have a low power, low compression, cheap chip out. cut the data rate in half.

 

~ up to 100 m or more

heavily depend on cable attenuation (quality)

u cant cut data rate and keep compressing all the time

and expect decent pix

everything in life has limitations

 

and why would you want "non HD camera" ?

 

I personally tired to look at analog cameras (even Panasonic 484)

and just for fun

have a look at this sample only VGA res (IP cam)

[tweak'e 0]

 

~ up to 100 m or more

heavily depend on cable attenuation (quality)

u cant cut data rate and keep compressing all the time

and expect decent pix

everything in life has limitations

 

and why would you want "non HD camera" ?

 

absolutly there are always limits.

 

non-HD camera ??

i'm just thinking of the bottom end of the market. it all depends on what the price comes out to be but you could go digital out on all existing analog cameras, then scale up to HD cameras, then you start getting into IP cameras. its all got a nice upgrade path.

[rory 0]

have a look at this sample only VGA res (IP cam)

lets see it under low light, side by side with the pano.

[ak357 0]

have a look at this sample only VGA res (IP cam)

lets see it under low light, side by side with the pano.

 

Rory we are not going to compare under low light

for a simple reason which u going to like

of course pano will be better

but my problem and I stress it is my problem

I do not like any night shots done by almost any camera (possible exception is some Mobotix and Arecont 3130)

majority pix done by me and others what I have seen do not have any value for ME

Yes, I do sell like all of us diff cams

and if customer like it

good for them and I guess good for me

[rory 0]

 

Rory we are not going to compare under low light

for a simple reason which u going to like

of course pano will be better

but my problem and I stress it is my problem

I do not like any night shots done by almost any camera (possible exception is some Mobotix and Arecont 3130)

majority pix done by me and others what I have seen do not have any value for ME

Yes, I do sell like all of us diff cams

and if customer like it

good for them and I guess good for me

 

This is the security industry, approx 50% of the time the location will be dark (with the rare exception of a 24 hour business) and the majority of criminals will target a place under the cover of darkness. It would be lovely to be able to pick only the jobs that have perfect lighting .. but life is not perfect - so essentially, we cant get away from low lighting, we just have to work with it.

 

I hear you though, you like megapixel cameras and alot of light. Im in the CCTV business though, unfortunately I cant pick and choose like that

[cglaeser 0]

I do not like any night shots done by almost any camera

 

OK, you want detail? You want low light? Check out this night shot from the new Canon 1D Mark IV.

 

 

Gorgeous.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

I do not like any night shots done by almost any camera

 

OK, you want detail? You want low light? Check out this night shot from the new Canon 1D Mark IV.

 

 

Gorgeous.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

To be fair, there is a ton of light in that image, but yeah my samsung digital still camera sucks at night with any amount of light

[cglaeser 0]

To be fair, there is a ton of light in that image

 

Yeah, but I think that one was ISO 10000, which is far below the highest setting. Plus, it's in color. Too bad it's impractical to fit a large sensor in a minidome. Big sensors mean ... big lenses. A 35x PTZ would look like a gun on the Missouri.

 

Best,

Christopher

[ak357 0]

OK, you want detail? You want low light? Check out this night shot from the new Canon 1D Mark IV.

Christopher

 

Christopher thx for pix but I was talking about CCTV cameras only by the way

[cglaeser 0]

Christopher thx for pix but I was talking about CCTV cameras only by the way

 

Yes, of course. Just bein' silly. And dreamin'. I have the 1D Mark II. Would love to upgrade to the recently announced Mark IV.

 

Anyway, back to security cameras. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but many of us need the low light. System design is always about trade-offs. You need detail. Some of us need low light. Until sensor designers can add about 5 to 8 more stops, we're forced to compromise one or the other or somewhere in the middle.

 

Best,

Christopher

[ak357 0]

Christopher thx for pix but I was talking about CCTV cameras only by the way

 

Yes, of course. Just bein' silly. And dreamin'. I have the 1D Mark II. Would love to upgrade to the recently announced Mark IV.

 

Anyway, back to security cameras. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but many of us need the low light. System design is always about trade-offs. You need detail. Some of us need low light. Until sensor designers can add about 5 to 8 more stops, we're forced to compromise one or the other or somewhere in the middle.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Do u think I don't belong to "many of us group"

I am not happy with CCTV low light images

You and me talk about this while back

u know exactly what I mean

That all I am trying to say

 

I wish one day everybody on forum can post their best "low light" pix

and then lets have discussion

[cglaeser 0]

I wish one day everybody on forum can post their best "low light" pix

and then lets have discussion

 

My best low light is an Axis 223M. Oh yeah, I should add, mounted next to a 50W RayMax.

 

I have the new Pano 502 that does pretty well with residential street lighting, but I'm guessing the dual sensor Mobotix and Arecont do better.

 

Best,

Christopher

[ak357 0]

I wish one day everybody on forum can post their best "low light" pix

and then lets have discussion

 

My best low light is an Axis 223M. Oh yeah, I should add, mounted next to a 50W RayMax.

 

I have the new Pano 502 that does pretty well with residential street lighting, but I'm guessing the dual sensor Mobotix and Arecont do better.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

yep agree,

good example of "low light" Axis and 50W Raymax

I am going to call u Saturday if its OK

I brought back home 1.3mp 30 fr to play again

[rory 0]

I wish one day everybody on forum can post their best "low light" pix

and then lets have discussion

BW Exview, best low light camera chip still IMO.

Otherwise, I am certain we have posted them in the past, the forum has been around from 2003, however, it is not suggested as those images are part of security system and it might be detrimental to the client to have their security system images all over the internet.

[rajaymor 0]

I wish one day everybody on forum can post their best "low light" pix

and then lets have discussion

BW Exview, best low light camera chip still IMO.

Otherwise, I am certain we have posted them in the past, the forum has been around from 2003, however, it is not suggested as those images are part of security system and it might be detrimental to the client to have their security system images all over the internet.

 

Yeah, I imagine my clients would sue the f*** out of me if I posted their security footage!!

[ak357 0]

 

Yeah, I imagine my clients would sue the f*** out of me if I posted their security footage!!

 

Than do not post

 

I ask few of my customers and guess what

they let me do it

[Dongwonsecurity 0]

BOX CAMERA, DOME CAMERA, SPEED DOME CAMERA, ALL-IN ONE CAMERA and so on. which kind would be popular in the future years.

Hope everyone can show your own opiniion.

 

Since late of 2009, Major Chip makers are producing DSP for

1. 600TVL(Color)~640TVL

2. 700TVL(B/W)~750/800TVL

 

Good looking All-in-one concept for outdoor use

Others would be same

[Soundy 1]

OK, you want detail? You want low light? Check out this night shot from the new Canon 1D Mark IV.

Christopher

 

Christopher thx for pix but I was talking about CCTV cameras only by the way

Avigilon uses the same type of sensor as the 1DmkIV Granted, it doesn't have dual-Digic-IV processors behind it... but the light-gathering capability is greatly improved with the MUCH larger sensor.

[Soundy 1]

Anyway, back to security cameras. Yes, I understand where you are coming from, but many of us need the low light. System design is always about trade-offs. You need detail. Some of us need low light. Until sensor designers can add about 5 to 8 more stops, we're forced to compromise one or the other or somewhere in the middle.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

I'm constantly amazed at how the lens is almost completely overlooked in this equation. The vast majority of the lenses in use that I come across (whether new ones, or on existing installs) are between f/1.4 and f/1.8... yet I do have some that are f/1.2 and I've seen them as far down as f/0.95. These don't seem like very big differences, but f/1.2 is a full stop faster than f/1.8, which means it allows TWICE the amount of light. In fact, from f/2 to f/1 is TWO stops, or FOUR times the light passage.

 

When low light performance is a concern, simply changing the lens could make a HUGE difference, with ANY camera.