System Design for Counseling Observation

[able1 0]

Anyone ever installed a camera/audio for Counseling Observation??

 

I am being asked to install a system for observation with audio for drug counseling. This is going to be used for evaluation of the counselor. No recordings will be made. Only live viewing and listening.

 

The first request is for a covert(hidden) camera and microphone.

 

There will be two rooms set up this way with one room for the headend equipment.

 

Interested in suggestions on equipment for the video and the audio.

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

 

TIA

[bpzle 0]

Seems odd it won't be recorded... who's to say the counselor isn't just making funny faces at the patient the entire time? lol

 

Audio is probably going to play the biggest factor in monitoring... People don't talk every loudly in an interment setting, sharing intimate information. What's being said is going to be more important than any video...

 

Also, who are you trying to conceal the presence of CCTV from? The patient, counselor, or both? That will also play a big part in the selection and placement of equipment...

[able1 0]

Thanks for the response.

 

Patients will be signing a waiver that makes them knowledgeable that their session may be monitored. Recording becomes a much bigger legal issue and they don't want to get involved those problems.

 

The individual that is observing/listen will most likely be wearing headphones so some kind of volume or gain control will be necessary.

 

As I understand, this is to primarily evaluate the performance of the counselor not the patient. Although it could be used the other way.

 

The reasoning for a covert camera is so the the patient will relax more quickly during the sessions without having the eye of the camera looking right at them.

 

The customer has some preset notions of how they want this to work. I just need to find and install equipment that will make that happen.

 

Thanks for your help.

[hardwired 0]

There's a huge amount of different covert video products available, and with the requirements as you described, the quality of the video may not be as great an issue, as getting something that blends in (potted plant, clock, smoke detector, etc)

 

However, I would spend the money on a good microphone system. Louroe makes some pretty good ones, but the Crown PZM microphones are even better. Find a way to get it as close to your subjects, and as far away from noise sources (air vents, etc) as possible.

[Soundy 1]

I'll second the recommendation for a PZM mic in this situation - they have excellent omnidirectional pickup, inherently tend to reduce echo, and don't suffer at all from proximity effect. Placed in the middle of the ceiling, it should pick up room sounds nicely without getting any direct noise from ceiling air vents or buzzing lights.

 

For monitoring, you just need to run it into a very basic mixer. Anything from Radio Shack should suffice, although you can do better at a pro-sound supplier.

 

For the camera, hardwired is correct again, you don't need high-quality video for this, so anything in a "nanny cam" type idea should do fine. Covert cameras can be had built into clocks, toys, computer speakers, smoke detectors, alarm sensors... just about anything you can imagine can have a camera hidden in it.

 

That said, you could also go with just a simple, small, low-profile dome in a far corner of the room - there's really no need for this camera to be HIDDEN, you just want it inconspicuous... that just means you don't want a big obvious box with monster lens pointing right at the subjects.

 

Something like a Pelco IS90 flush-mounted in the ceiling is discrete and unobtrusive:

(just for scale, the white ring is a little bigger than a CD - the smoked dome would look even better in your case, but I can't find a good picture of that).

[able1 0]

Ok, so when I saw the PZM note I thought it was a mfg. name.

 

Then I found that PZM is an acronym for Pressure Zone Microphone; it generally refers to a "boundary microphone" in which a small condenser mic capsule faces a boundary.

 

So any chance you guys have a link or model number or something that you would recommend??

 

I have the camera figured out. But I am not much of a sound person.

 

Thanks much,

[Soundy 1]

Crown is the most common name in PZMs. Radio Shack used to carry one that was basically a re-branded Crown, dunno if they do anymore. We have a pair in our studio, they make stellar overhead mics for drums.

 

Any pro-audio shop should be able to help you out with this. For a small mixer, take a look at Alesis or Behringer.

[rory 0]

Cant speak for the audio, only one ive used with CCTV is louroe, but its hardly stereo quality - somewhat covert though, and oh yeah expensive.

http://www.louroe.com/mics.asp?model=amic

 

As for covert cameras, you could by the mini cube cameras that KT&C make and create your own covert cameras, using anything you can think of. double stick or glue them inside the thing you want to make covert, thats pretty much all the others do anyway. Get Pinhole lenses. It is much cheaper and you get to use the existing environment, things that are already there and blend in.

[rory 0]

oh yeah, if you want a very small dome: tiny little thing .. not the best image, but small.

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/ECL-555_dome_camera.html

[RollSound 0]

So any chance you guys have a link or model number or something that you would recommend??

 

The Crown PZM-10 or PZM-11 have always been my 'go to' mics for surveillance applications.

 

After the mic, you'll need some kind of preamp and then a headphone amp.

 

A small mixer like the Mackie 402 would meet your needs nicely.

[bpzle 0]

I'd do a Fostex 6301 as the monitor speaker. We used these in broadcast (TV and radio) and they are superb. Amp is built in. Will be just as accurate and clean as headphones, and multiple people can listen. As well as no discomfort associated with having headphones on for an extended period of time.

 

A Crown PZM-10LL. Low profile, doesn't look like a mic at all. The preamp is built in, so a mixer won't be necessary unless you really want the headphones option. In which case, a cheap headphone amp like the Behringer HA400.

 

For the camera, an Eclipse ECL-CPIRH. Looks like a motion detector.

 

As for the monitor, any LCD with RCA input will do. I use Dell.com/outlet coupled with a cheap BNC-VGA adapter. Just make sure the output resolution of the adapter is compatible with the LCD. With this setup, I can usually get an LCD drop monitor for about $150.

[able1 0]

Thanks to all for the input. Very helpful.

Gives me much better insight.

Meeting with the customer on Tuesday.

 

Thanks again.

[able1 0]

Again thanks for all the help but...............................

 

Customer wants something that I did not consider. Been searching but have not found it as yet. I think I have the concept but don't know the parts. So I am here to ask for a little more help.

 

Here is the desire of the client.

 

- Covert color camera with audio.

 

- Installed on their network.

 

- Viewable on a PC.

 

- Listened to with USB headphones.

 

- No recording of video or audio.

 

Now I can see this being a IP camera with audio.

 

Where I am having a problem is finding a covert unit to do it all. The best choice would be a motion detector style with camera and microphone so it could fit in and get the best view of the room.

 

Audio quality is not a high priority. Quality needs to be easily understandable by one person of the conversation that is going on in the room. Room is small, maybe 10'x12'. Video camera in a corner with a 3.6mm lens should capture both the client and counselor with out any problem.

 

Anyone have any additional thoughts on the topic.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[bpzle 0]

Lol... I'm sorry, but USB headphones? hahahah HILARIOUS to me right now... Let's ignore that request.

 

So not much has changed here, other than these guys want to view audio/ video on their PCs.

 

1st thing: DO NOT depend on ANY camera's on board microphone to pick up good quality audio in ANY size room. I don't care what these donkey's think they want... Cover your arse and bid a good mic. Audio IS the most important aspect of this whole job. If you can't hear the counseling session, video is useless.

 

2nd: Your not going to find many, if ANY covert IP cams. The Mobotix make it yourself and put into anything kit like the: http://www.mobotix.com/eng_US/content/view/full/37540 WOULD be ideal. BUT let's face it, probably not in their budget.

 

OK... so you want to view live on PCs... no big deal. Just snatch up a VIVOTEK VS7100. Cheapo Depot encoder, but it'll do ya just fine. D1 real time plus audio.

 

Let's review your recommended equipment list:

 

VIVOTEK VS7100, Fostex 6301 (really insist even if you and they don't know better pre-listen), Crown PZM-10LL, and an Eclipse ECL-CPIRH.

 

Easy breezy mac and cheezy. That's all you need to know. They'll love it. Just bid it and buy it.

[ak357 0]

Again thanks for all the help but...............................

 

Customer wants something that I did not consider. Been searching but have not found it as yet. I think I have the concept but don't know the parts. So I am here to ask for a little more help.

 

Here is the desire of the client.

 

- Covert color camera with audio.

 

- Installed on their network.

 

- Viewable on a PC.

 

 

Les,

IP plug and Play video server (u got from me while back)

has audio input

connect any cam u want and mic

Done

 

http://www.cam2life.net/products-VS306.html

Edited February 3, 2010 by Guest

[rory 0]

 

Les,

IP plug and Play video server (u got from me while back)

has audio input

connect any cam u want and mic

Done

Sounds like the best choice.

[zmxtech 0]

An Axis M1031 with a pin hole lens should do the job. might want to give the White LED a miss tho

[Soundy 1]

Yeah, the camera itself doesn't have to be IP for this to work (unless they need megapixel, which doesn't appear to be the case): any analog camera can be plugged into any "video server" box that will allow it to be plugged into the network. Get one with an audio input if they really want to go that way.

 

Frankly, if they're only listening and watching, and not recording, I see little reason to have a whole separate PC just for monitoring the feed. It adds a lot of expense and complexity (not to mention the extra power consumption and noise generated by yet another narrow-purpose PC) and provides almost NO benefit - the only possible reason to use a network(ed) camera and audio in this case would maybe be the ability to easily access it from any PC on that network, but I don't think that's a capability that would be desirable in this instance (from a privacy standpoint, would you want YOUR counseling session to be accessible to anyone in the building with the proper information???)

 

This may be an instance where you need to put your foot down and TELL the client what's best for them, instead of letting them rely on what they think they WANT (as opposed to what they NEED). From the sound of it, someone wants to pretend like he's James Bond and be as high-tech as possible, with no real thought to the benefits or drawbacks involved.

[Harrar 0]

Just quote them a Mobotix Q24.

http://www.mobotix.com/eng_US/content/view/full/25611

Looks like a smoke detector. Has built-in speaker and microphone, easily attached to their network, can be viewed live using IE browser or free MxEasy software.

 

After adding in the cost of a camera, microphone, amp, headphones, speakers, cabling for each and now the customers network requirements, this would probably end up a cheap solution.

[Soundy 1]

After adding in the cost of a camera, microphone, amp, headphones, speakers, cabling for each and now the customers network requirements, this would probably end up a cheap solution.

 

How about once you add in the PC for monitoring?

[bpzle 0]

I don't think 1 camera requires a dedicated client and they probably already have computers in use already in the building that will be up for the job...

 

In which case this would save $ on a dedicated display and pulling cable to the monitoring station. Assuming that an existing network could be utilized...

 

I'd like to second the Q24 idea... but havn't put my hands on one to vouch for it. Love the YouTube videos though. If you get the megapixel version... I think the FPS is only 4 at the highest resolution and I garuntee these people won't like that. Especially if their asking for things like "usb headphones" hahaha. Resolution could probably be scaled back to increase FPS, but again I've never touched a Q24...

 

Also, Can anyone vouch for the onboard mic? I can't stress enough how critcal audio will be...

I'd still be tempted to buy the Crown mic and just wire it to the Q24 in place of it's onboard mic.

 

 

I think I'm still sticking with my last post and recomending THAT equipment:

Cheap encoder, Crown PZM mic, Eclipse "PIR" cam, and the Fostex speaker monitor. I would bet my paycheck they'll be more than happy with that. Even if they don't know it yet.

[rory 0]

Seems like alot of work for a 2 camera job.

What is a counseling observation? Do they have $$?

[bpzle 0]

What seems like a lot of work? Who said anything about 2 cameras? I thought it was just 1.

[rory 0]

What seems like a lot of work? Who said anything about 2 cameras? I thought it was just 1.

all this stress over a basic 2 camera job, without recording. He said 2. I would tell them check NewEgg or Amazon.

[bpzle 0]

oh my bad, I missed that it was 2 seperate rooms. in that case, just double the order of what I already said.

 

no stress... easy money. as long as he has easy access to their network... could be done in 2-3 hours. I wish all MY jobs were that simple.

 

what are you suggesting the get off amazon and new egg?