Can you recommend a system for me?

[PoorOwner 0]

Recently I had found foot prints in my yard which is soft mud and it ain't mine! I am kind of panicking right now.. someone has been climbing over my fence.

 

I need to setup a system to view and record motion in my yard.

In my old place, I used to have a old PC and ran a software called Gotcha via a capture card, it was great because it posted screenshots in a loop on a http server.

 

but I would like a DVR with net capability for a cleaner solution now.

 

I went to frys and bought a swann 4 channel DVR but it doesn't have network so I am going to return it. I researched a little bit and found that

it is a company called AV tech that makes it for Swann. Where can I buy the AV tech products? I think the 4-9 channel DVR with net is what I need.

 

I hope not to spend over $1000. that is with or without cameras, I have a color CCD cam with IR that will do the trick providing it has some motion floodlight but I'll start with a camera or two, I'm only interested in surveying the backyard right now.

 

Also has anyone seen the system sold in costco, home sentinel CCTV from strategic vista. It is $1000 with monitor built-in DVR unit, HD, 4 cameras included and USB connectivity to PC (not sure if that is network or not)

 

Well that is about the max I want to spend, please give me some advice and recommendation.

[DataAve 0]

ebay, but you have to be careful what you are looking at.

[Integratek 0]

for this price you can get either standalone or pc-based dvr

i'm not a big expert on standalones, as for pc-based you can get very nice feature-rich solution for a much lower price

 

if your old pc is any better than pIII 633 256 ram you can use virtually any dvr card on it and get OK results

there's quite a lot of dvr cards on the market

i have had expirience with kodicom, geovision, avermedia, pico and magic radar

any of those mentioned would surely satisfy all your need

[PoorOwner 0]

I agree the PC option is sure cheaper but it uses more power consumption in the long run.

But I am considering the PC option also. Do you have experience with Swann DVR-4-Net card, it is around $100 and I think I'll get one to use in my PC to evaluate and if I like it then think about a PC box.

[kaysadeya 0]

Check these threads:

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1740

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1786

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1658

[PoorOwner 0]

BTW how come the search doesn't seem to work correctly, it is always searching for any terms and in any forums despite what I select as options.

[kaysadeya 0]

BTW how come the search doesn't seem to work correctly, it is always searching for any terms and in any forums despite what I select as options.

 

Good question. I was going to recommend you search for some specific strings, but recalled that you can only search for one word across all topics.

[PoorOwner 0]

My head is already spinning..

 

Where do you guys buy all these brands of DVRs from. Even a net search for AV tech and power telecom etc doesn't come up with anything.

I'm in Bay Area also..

[kaysadeya 0]

You hit on my favorite topic ....

 

If you dig more into this forum, you'll discover most of the "affordable" DVRs are “rebrandedâ€

[rory 0]

My head is already spinning..

 

Where do you guys buy all these brands of DVRs from. Even a net search for AV tech and power telecom etc doesn't come up with anything.

I'm in Bay Area also..

 

 

Hi, Ill get you some info on the PowerTelecomm DVRs in your Area, as to where you can buy them from. I sell them but dont yet have a US shopping cart so I cant sell to you guys.

 

If you look at my web site, you can get an idea of the ranges I sell. Low, to mid, to high end, stand alones, and PC cards, as well as the Iview Stand alone PC System.

 

Some Stand Alone Embedded DVRs you cant go wrong with:

 

Low End:

PowerTelecomm, AVTech, ActiveTek / Uriel

 

Mid Range:

Kodicom, Nuvico / Vitek, Hunt / WebGate, Powertelecomm (?some new products may be in this range).

 

Higher End "Brands": The Big Boys ..

GE Kalatel, Bosch Divar, March Networks, Panasonic, Sanyo

 

Some PC DVRs:

I-view, StarDVR (only PC DVRs I used and liked)

 

If you want a bunch of features, then you would want PC based. If you choose a very cheap PC Card such as what you listed, you wont get much features with them. You would want to step up to one of the ones I listed or others on this forum.

 

If you want a machine that is Plug Play and Forget, then you would need a stand alone Embedded DVR. The low end DVRs have very little features, but work fine. The average home user wont need anything more than these.

 

The Mid - High Ranges have mostly equal features, some more or less, normally much better Network Software. Non PC Windows so no Virus or Hacks.

 

Rory

[DataAve 0]

kaysadeya, what DVR did you finally get?

[qman 0]

He got a Kodicomm 16 Channel.

[kaysadeya 0]

Right. It's a Kodicom KSD516. The original one I received was a dud, but the replacement is a very nice unit. I'll write up a full review after I've had more experience with it.

[kaysadeya 0]

PoorOwner,

 

I've posted this before but will repeat it here. I've discovered that the best approach to building a CCTV system on a budget is to first get the best DVR you can. You can buy used B&W cameras and decent-quality housings (brand new) on E-bay. If you know what you’re looking for and careful with your bidding, you can put together a professional-quality camera/lens/housing combination for less than $80. The cameras wouldn’t be state-of-the-art day/nighters, but will do the job nicely.

 

So, for example, with $1000, you could budget $800 for a DVR and $200 for two used B&W cameras. With B&W cameras you’ll also have the option to add an IR illuminator to your system should you later decide that you need nighttime coverage.

 

Eventually you may want to upgrade to quality day/night cameras, but you can take your time and wait for them to become more affordable.

[DataAve 0]

I have the cams all up (most of them). I am just waiting for the next generation of DVR's to come out (by June)

[bryan1656 0]

All respect to kaysadeya, but I have to repsectfully disagree.

 

Any video surveillance system is dependant on the quality of images it creates and records. This depends on the camera on the "front end". (Well, actually it begins with the Sun, but I won't get that technical).

 

My reasoning is this:

 

A $1500 DVR that is "being fed" by a low end camera with poor resolution and poor light sensitivity, that isn't properly installed, focused, adjusted, etc. is only going to produce poor images.

 

If the image isn't of sufficient quality to provide identification, or even recognition level images, than it won't matter that the DVR is any good. It's like the old computer saying - GIGO "Garbage in, Garbage out."

 

A quality camera that is properly installed will produce outstanding images even on a basic low-end VHS recorder.

 

If the system doesn't provide the quality images that you need when you need them, then it was worthless.

 

I recall a case of an armed robbery and triple murder where the company spent $60k on a CCTV system. It wasn't worth squat. The door camera was not properly installed, etc. and there were absolutely no useable images from any part of the system even after forensic video analysis. The system was put in for the express purpose of providing valuable evidence in the event of a violent crime... yet the system failed to deliver. That crime is still unsolved, to my knowledge.

 

I am working a case right now that is very similar... problems with the digital video. If the CCTV system doesn't do what it was supposed to do, which is to produce quality video images for use in civil or criminal court, and for use in civil or criminal investigation... then it is a waste of money.

 

The best DVR in the world, connected with the best cable in the world, using the best installation techniques in the world.. will still only produce poor images when it is "being fed" by a poor quality camera.

 

However, a high quality camera can still send good quality images to even the most rudimentary recorder... and you can upgrade recorders at a later time.

 

If the system is used primarily for monitoring, such as with a guard station where someone is watching monitors for access control, etc and recording is a secondary concern - you still want to provide your human element with as much info as possible, which means as good a picture as possible, to allow them to discern facial features, objects in hands, bulges in coats, etc.

 

Again, all due respect to anyone whose training and experience leads them to a different opinion. But my NSHO is to start with a proper camera that gives good images, properly install it with proper lighting.. and then you've got good images to work with. Recording systems can meet basic needs at reasonable prices, and can be upgraded over several generations while the cameras continue to provide good composite signals one tech generation after the next.

 

My two cents. YMMV.

[kaysadeya 0]

Can't argue with the value of a good camera. However, a person on a tight budget might find it best to spread out the cost of the system over months or years. At this point in time, it’s hard to find a good used DVR, but there are plenty of good used cameras on the market. I suspect this is because businesses upgrade their CCTV hardware every few years and, because they can depreciate their old hardware, they basically give it away to the people who sell surplus hardware. You don’t need to spend much time on Ebay to see this trend.

 

So the result is, you can buy a good, used professional-quality camera for less than you’d pay for a cheapy budget camera. These cameras are out of banks and other commercial establishments; so if they were good enough to monitor those locations last year, they’re good enough for my backyard this year. Because DVRs in general are relatively new, the same value opportunities do not yet exist when shopping for a DVR.

[bryan1656 0]

Again.. I hate to disagree, but...

 

I've worked enough bank robberies to know that "bank" does *not* automatically equal "good CCTV". I'd hate to see anyone think that some equipment was good and buy it thinking it was good, just because it used to be installed in some bank somewhere. I don't want to let anyone labor under that false assumption.

 

Also, even if it *was*/*is* a good camera..... that worked well in an indoor environment with artificial lighting; .....it is not neccessarily going to be what I want to work outdoors, subjected to a range of severe weather conditions, over a broad range of lighting conditions, especially at night, etc. etc.

 

Apples and oranges in my opinion. Workable, yes. Doable, yes. But still two very different things.

 

For a *very* basic and affordable residential system intended to address concerns with outdoor intruders in a specific ingress/egress area, I'd be looking at a single camera VHS system with motion detector and monitor - and askng why remote IP was a "deal killer".

 

If multiple cams were desired for increased coverage of the property area, then I'd be looking at the lower end stand alone DVRs (80 to 120MB) that allow for full quality record on motion detection, alarm buffer, alarm integration, and the IP stuff, etc.

 

If residential intruders are a concern, then physical security and intrusion detection systems should also be examined.

 

Again.. my humble two cents for the sake of discussion. Opposing opinions welcomed and encouraged!

[Thomas 0]

Have you seen the diebold setup? Eight cameras into a switcher and a time lapse. One frame every eight seconds.

[rory 0]

Yeah, apparently a lot of cheap products were just installed in a Bank Chain down here, when i say cheap, is the Eclipse CCTV stuff I posted in the dealer section, or for those that arent in there, www.EclipseCCTV.com. Its basically all OEM stuff. The DVR itself isnt bad, we have one here been testing, PC based, has features, but not as good as the Iview or others mentioned on this forum. Its a rebranded DigiFlower Card. Well its the software that matters with PC cards also.

 

Anywho ,, the reason the company got the job, they quoted cheap and the bank went for the the cheap products. Doesnt mean it is going to be great images. THough it appears they may have used GE Box Cameras, while they went cheap on the DVR. Great cameras on a cheap DVR. even if the images are good, doesnt make sense to me. If they are buying $500 cameras, may as well sell them a better DVR for a little bit more.

 

For Residential, I dont see the need for Cutting Edge products, but it depends on the users budget. If they can afford it, then sure sell them the most expensive, or at least the best products (Extreme IR with Cyber Dome Pressure PTZs comes to mind .. in a job we recently aquired, but the home is a 10 million dollar home). Actually client was originally willing to spend $50K on just dummy cameras with blinking lights ..!

 

Anyway, I normally sell cheap cameras with a cheap DVR, and either mid range or higher range cameras, with the more featured higher end DVRs. The biggest problem I find is getting a client to spend the money on the CCTV Monitor, over a basic TV .. though the TV can still be very good quality when using a Embedded DVR.

 

Every application is different as clients have different budgets. If they want the fatures of a good DVR upfront, but then want to feeel out the job forst for the cameras, by buying some cheapo color cameras, maybe a BW cam here and there, then they are the client and its their budget. Its all good as then as we see what the lighting conditions are like, or what the client descides they really want to do with the system, then we can add better cameras.

 

Trust me though, I prefer installing the high end products all at once to start with, but around here, it just hasnt worked out that good and the only way I am now able to compete is to offer lower end products as well ($50 bullets).

 

The DVR ios definetely the most important part of the initial system, as it costs the most generally, and it is the part that the user operates. In other words, changing a camera will not make a difference to how the client uses the system, but changing the DVR out will. The main thing is to always let the client know exactly what is what, problem is most installers just sell them the cheap products and dont give them a choice, or dont let them know what else is out there.

 

Rory

[DataAve 0]

Going off a wee bit of a tangent? The guy just wants something simple for his house. He doesn't want to take out a second mortgage to purchase a system.

[rory 0]

One of these:

http://powertelecomm.com.hosting.domaindirect.com/product_r4000.htm

 

And some of these: I have the ECL-596 at my house - color bullet.

http://www.eclipsecctv.com/COLORCAMERAS.html

 

Wont break the bank, and will work great for a standard residential app. If the area is dark at night (low lighting) then they also have an Exview BW Bullet.

 

And if you really want a cheap cheap DVR, using this PC Card, in an existing PC will work, not highly recomenned to do without a dedicated PC but it will work: http://www.stardvr.com/ECL834.htm

 

If interested in pricing, etc, PM/Email me for further info.

 

Rory

[bryan1656 0]

quote: "The main thing is to always let the client know exactly what is what, problem is most installers just sell them the cheap products and dont give them a choice, or dont let them know what else is out there."

 

Well said, Rory. I thought it was important enough to bear repeating.

[kaysadeya 0]

I've worked enough bank robberies to know that "bank" does *not* automatically equal "good CCTV".

 

One which side of the camera was that?

 

But seriously, what you say about the need for camera quality is completely true. But some of us homeowners just can’t justify a huge CCTV budget, so we have to set priorities and work within limited parameters.

 

What I'm talking about are pretty decent used B&W cameras that are still for sale new for around $150-$200 with AI lenses that are still for sale for around $100+. Relative (and I emphasize RELATIVE) to the deal you can get on a DVR, used cameras in general are – at this point in time – a screaming bargain.

 

In my system, I have used CS cameras, new and older bullet cameras, and new $400 day/night cameras. (The older bullet cameras I've had for years and they're still working fine.) If I had the budget, there’s no question that I’d rather have the day/nighters everywhere. But it just doesn’t make financial sense, so I “settleâ€

Edited April 14, 2005 by Guest

[Cooperman 0]

The biggest problem I find with a lot of clients, is they don't understand what they're buying, and perhaps more depressingly, a significant percentage have absolutely no interest "as long as it does the job".

 

bryan 1656, I can relate to an awful lot of what you're saying. There is often an assumption that because a company throws a lot of money into their CCTV, then it must automatically be 'state of the art'. In practice it's often 'in no fit state'. Nothing to do with the available budget, or even in some cases the choice of equipment, it's fundamentally the case that the installers acting on the clients instructions just doesn't know how to make it work properly.

 

kaysadeya, as a motivated end user, you want to do the best you can on a limited budget, and much of what you say makes absolute sense.

 

Interestingly enough, I'm doing a covert job for someone at the moment, and out of curiosity I went along to a local 'shop' to see what toys they had on the shelf. I had a play around with a 400 line B&W lipstick size bullet camera, and quite honestly I couldn't see any difference in picture quality between this $ 70 unit, and a 3 year old $ 250 conventional camera (there was a noticeable reduction in exposure control, but nothing that couldn't be tolerated for the price).

 

True you can change the lens (and optimise it) on a 'CS' camera, which you can't do on the bullet, and the reliability of this tiny unbranded far eastern import is quite unknown, but then you pays yer money and takes yer choice.

 

As has already been mentioned, it comes down to the application first, and the budget available to source equipment which best suits those requirements.

 

Personally, for a home system I'd tend to identify the imaging requirements first, and the recording demands second, albeit a degree of compromise may well be required to achieve an acceptable balance.