New System To Match Existing hardware

[archik100 0]

Hi all!

 

I feel proud to be the first topic on this forum! " title="Applause" />

 

My question is as follows:

 

I want to complete a setup with the following existing hardware.

• 4 units of the Sony SSC-CD77 / SSC-CD77P.
  A Intel Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz with ample space.
  2 units of Acer 19" X193W for kitchen/bedroom viewing.

 

I originally wanted to go with a pure IP system but my boss didn't want since he originally "invested" in CCTV wiring. The cameras were purchased by someone else, so I'm stuck with this unless the results are really bad.

 

Anyway, I've been leaning on the side of a PC based system over embedded/standalone since PC based is usually more upgradeable. Additionally, I plan to access the feed on the iPhone/Touch and online/over my network as well. My assumption was that PC based would handle these functions better.

 

So, if indeed the PC route is the way to go, what hardware (DVR card etc.) would you recommend? If you think the embedded route is better, why?

 

[Another queer idea I have (mentioned above) is to have the feed displayed in my office and vice versa. I plan to unite my office and home under one network, using wireless bridging, so there is enough bandwidth. The office will, hopefully, run IP cameras, since there is no CCTV wiring there to deal with.]

 

Any ideas? I did a lot of research but I just keep on getting more confused.

 

Many thanks!

 

Ben

[archik100 0]

Anyone?

[rory 0]

Hi, its Sunday night .. give them time

 

GeoVision is a card you can pretty much buy anywhere, great for DIY.

 

Another one to look at is Nuuo, though I cant say as I havent used them yet. Software looks okay, but ive only tested it without video.

 

Others are Video Insight, Avemedia, Vigil, and there are other cards but not much talk about them on this forum, doesnt mean they arent good .. just not as popular with the visitors here.

 

I think this sub forum might be more geared towards the much cheaper cards though, like the $50-$100 ones found on New Egg. Im not 100% sure about that though, its a new sub forum.

[rory 0]

What kind of environment is the DVR going to be placed in, such as dusty or not, heat or not, etc. That can determine which type of DVR you use also. For example, simple 4 channel stand alone DVRs can be much more appropriate for hot dusty applications as it can typically stand up better to those harsh environments.

 

Is the user computer literate?

 

You are correct though about Stand Alone non PC DVRs, unless one spends thousands in some cases, one will not get the features found in some PC based DVR systems.

 

Re: the IP cameras. PC DVRs like GeoVision and Nuuo (and others) will work with IP cameras but typically you need to purchase a licence per camera basis (eg. 2 cameras, 4 cameras, etc). with geovision if you use their IP cameras I believe there is no extra charge.

[archik100 0]

It will be in the basement of the home. I don't think that there will be any extreme temperatures there, although it might be a little dusty there for a while. Not enough to create computer problems though.

 

I'm quite literate in computers. I've built my own, flashed firmwares and tinkered a lot, among various OS's.

[Soundy 1]

See my reply over here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20134

[archik100 0]

Thanks!

 

My list now includes the following brands: GeoVision (!), Nuuo, Video Insight (2), Avemedia, Vigil (2).

 

GeoVision seems to be leading the pack here in popularity, although some seem to swear by other brands. (From what I read on the forum.)

 

Another question: Is good software purchased separately, or is an excellent one included? To take it a step further, can I purchase the card from one manufacturer and the software from another, or are they tied together? If its tied, then I should possibly be working from the software down.

 

One more question: I also need an output for the kitchen/bedroom monitors. (The wiring is already done.) Is it included in most cards?

 

Thanks!

Ben

[rory 0]

With DVR cards you are working with their software only, in most cases. Basically, they are typically just Software Developers, and they buy their cards from card manufacturers, the card manufacturers normally just provide SDKs only and their primary business is making cards.

 

So although the actual card itself could be very inexpensive, you are essentially paying for the software. Like they say, you get what you pay for, same goes for Software.

 

Not all cards will have a video out, in the case of GeoVision you would need their combo cards to get that. I believe all the Avermedia cards have a video output. No idea about the others, but it should say whether it has it or not. Typically it will be an RCA composite output.

[archik100 0]

I see. Good to know.

 

In other words, I should look for the manufacturer that offers the most stable, constantly updated software.

 

I need iPhone/smartphone access as well.

[Soundy 1]

Thanks!

 

My list now includes the following brands: GeoVision (!), Nuuo, Video Insight (2), Avemedia, Vigil (2).

 

GeoVision seems to be leading the pack here in popularity, although some seem to swear by other brands. (From what I read on the forum.)

 

I've been dealing mostly with Vigil for years (and a bit of Video Insight)... we recently took on a client that had mostly GV, started replacing them with Vigils... don't even get me started on the things about GV that drive me nuts

 

Another question: Is good software purchased separately, or is an excellent one included? To take it a step further, can I purchase the card from one manufacturer and the software from another, or are they tied together? If its tied, then I should possibly be working from the software down.

 

The answer is a definite, "it depends." The GeoVision software, AFAIK, will only work with GeoVision-branded cards. Ditto with Video Insight. In most of these cases, the cards' firmware is "branded" for the integrator, and the software is coded to look for that branding, and simply report that there's no supported hardware if it doesn't find it.

 

Vigil software, on the other hand, will AFAIK work with any cards that use a supported chipset - case in point, I had a Vigil system with a 60fps card that died, so I pulled the 60fps card out of a Video Insight box (both use the same ComArt chips), plugged it into the Vigil machine, and was back up and running in minutes. The same software can also be installed without capture-card drivers, and simply run as an NVR.

 

One more question: I also need an output for the kitchen/bedroom monitors. (The wiring is already done.) Is it included in most cards?

 

I don't know about "most". Rory notes that GV requires an add-on card for it. Vigil and VI both have it built-in - older cards simply route a selected input back to an output jack (both packages support sequence switching). Newer Vigil and VI cards have both the same switched analog output, and a built-in "software MUX" output that will generate a split-screen display, even allowing you to mix analog and IP cameras.

 

In other words, I should look for the manufacturer that offers the most stable, constantly updated software.

 

"Stable" and "constantly updated" are usually mutually exclusive.

 

I need iPhone/smartphone access as well.

 

That will narrow the list substantially - the vast majority, IF they have a web client, use ActiveX... that eliminates iPhone viewing right off. Video Insight, however, DOES have a very good web client that doesn't use ActiveX or Java - take a look at www.demoip.com (there a mobile-optimized version as well, but I don't have the link handy).

[rory 0]

Rory notes that GV requires an add-on card for it.

Just to clarify, the Combo cards are the cards such as the 1120, 1240 and 1480, so no additional card is required for those, they come with the Video output. The other cards such as the 600-800 dont have that output.

[Soundy 1]

Noted... my bad.

[archik100 0]

"Stable" and "constantly updated" are usually mutually exclusive.

 

Your a Mac, aren't you?

 

Some research:

 

Video Insight:

 

The entry level Video Insight model wont fit my needs, since it wont give me even 30 FPS at my resolution, which is 540 TVL.

 

This means that for Video insight I have to start with this, which already give me 8 channels too.

 

Model: VJ60-8

Channels: 8

60 FPS

Cost: $549.95

 

Gevision:

 

This card is similar to the one above, but offers 120 FPS instead.

 

Model: GV-1120

Channels: 8

120 FPS

Cost: $589.00

 

 

3xlogic/Vigil:

 

I don't find any merchant online selling this, although it does look like a good product. They all ask to call for quotes.

 

 

Avermedia:

 

Weak tech support from what I've read, although they seem to have a nice interface (but how often would I use it).

 

This one has only four channels at 30 FPS but a great price. Whoo hoo!

 

Model: NV3000

Channels: 4

30 FPS

Cost: $107.00

 

 

Nuuo:

 

Similar specs to the one above, but seems like better software. (Really no clue, but the impression I get from their website.)

 

Model: SCB-1004

Channels: 4

30 FPS

Cost: $172.66

 

 

This list is really for my too keep up with option in order to properly evaluate them. I plan to add & update until I reach a decision.

 

I didn't expect the cards to cost this much.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Guest

[Soundy 1]

"Stable" and "constantly updated" are usually mutually exclusive.

 

Your a Mac, aren't you?

 

Heheheh, nope

 

Some research:

 

Video Insight:

 

The entry level Video Insight model wont fit my needs, since it wont give me even 30 FPS at my resolution, which is 540 TVL.

 

Camera TVL has *NO* relationship to DVR FPS limitations. None, nada, zilch, zero.

 

Some systems do have an interdependence between CAPTURE resolution and framerate, but that's not at all connected to camera resolution.

 

This means that for Video insight I have to start with this, which already give me 8 channels too.

 

Model: VJ60-8

Channels: 8

60 FPS

Cost: $549.95

 

Gevision:

 

This card is similar to the one above, but offers 120 FPS instead.

 

Model: GV-1120

Channels: 8

120 FPS

Cost: $589.00

 

This list is really for my too keep up with option in order to properly evaluate them. I plan to add & update until I reach a decision.

 

I didn't expect the cards to cost this much.

 

That should include the software for that price, I would hope... as Rory notes, the cards are largely commodity items; it's the software you're paying for.

 

Do keep in mind, when you're watching over a remote connection, and particularly a phone connection, you probably would never notice the difference between 60 and 120fps total - bandwidth is a much tighter bottleneck.

[rory 0]

I didn't expect the cards to cost this much.

i Guess i kind of have to go back on what I said, although you ARE paying for the software, they also charge more per channel and per FPS, so although the difference between the cards arent typically that much, the software developer has you tied down to their pricing scheme, its similar to licencing for Windows and other software, such as per PC.

 

So that said .. you would find the 4 channel 30fps versions very inexpensive.

For an 8 channel, you should be able to get away with 60fps versions, for a home user.

With those you can also use Smart Motion Detection to get faster recording on active cameras.

[archik100 0]

Camera TVL has *NO* relationship to DVR FPS limitations. None, nada, zilch, zero.

Some systems do have an interdependence between CAPTURE resolution and framerate, but that's not at all connected to camera resolution.

 

Got it. But I do want to take advantage of my cameras as far as I can, so a 540 TVL does allow for higher captures, resulting in lower FPS.

 

That should include the software for that price, I would hope... as Rory notes, the cards are largely commodity items; it's the software you're paying for.

 

Is it possible that after paying for this card, at this price, I would have to pay for each CCTV cam additionally?

 

Do keep in mind, when you're watching over a remote connection, and particularly a phone connection, you probably would never notice the difference between 60 and 120fps total - bandwidth is a much tighter bottleneck.

 

Yeah, but I still want a higher quality record, as well at the display screens. The phone is not really a requirement, just a nice touch.

 

So that said .. you would find the 4 channel 30fps versions very inexpensive.

 

I'm looking for that one!

[rory 0]

I'm looking for that one!

Most of the DVR cards have 30fps versions. In the case of GeoVision and 4 channels it is the GV-600-4

[archik100 0]

Most of the DVR cards have 30fps versions. In the case of GeoVision and 4 channels it is the GV-600-4

 

I know, but I also need to broadcast it to other screens. That would require a combo card.

 

 

Thee are a few other brands that seem to be popular online. A quick Google yields the following brands: Any experience with 'em?

 

Apposonic, Lorex, Q-see and Sabrent.

 

Worth a look, at all?

 

Also, I see some third party software that can possibly manage my cameras with generic cards. ZoneMinder and Visec etc.

 

Anyone tried them?

Edited February 2, 2010 by Guest

[rory 0]

Most of the DVR cards have 30fps versions. In the case of GeoVision and 4 channels it is the GV-600-4

 

I know, but I also need to broadcast it to other screens. That would require a combo card.

 

 

Thee are a few other brands that seem to be popular online. A quick Google yields the following brands: Any experience with 'em?

 

Apposonic, Lorex, Q-see and Sabrent.

 

Worth a look, at all?

 

Those are mostly very cheap ones, the kind of cards most on this forum wouldnt touch.

Its up to you if you want to take a gamble with them.

 

Avermedia I think has video out on their 4 channel 30fps card, and you can stack the cards. I dont like the software as much as Geo's, but it is a good brand.

[archik100 0]

Those are mostly very cheap ones, the kind of cards most on this forum wouldnt touch.

 

Makes sense. This is not something I'm going to skimp on.

 

Avermedia does seem good. But NewEgg buyer(s) complain about the lack of support.

[rory 0]

Those are mostly very cheap ones, the kind of cards most on this forum wouldnt touch.

 

Makes sense. This is not something I'm going to skimp on.

 

Avermedia does seem good. But NewEgg buyer(s) complain about the lack of support.

 

Yeah like many DVR brands the support can be lacking .. but really unless the card fails, one just puts it in and loads the software. There are manuals available and support for software features can be accessed from forums such as this. Personally I never used their cards, but I never had a need to. As you can see it is also popular though, we even have a forum for it here.

[archik100 0]

Is it worth bumping up to the next model (from AverMedia) to increase the FPS to 120? Its raises from ~$100.00 to ~$200.00.

 

Also, I have two screens where I want to view this on. Do I need more outputs?

 

Thanks,

Ben

[archik100 0]

Just saw this on another thread.

 

You can record at 30fps/channel only at CIF mode (320*240). Any higher resolution will lower the recording fps on NV5000 cards. You would have to go with a 6000 /7000/9000 series card if you need VGA/D1 resolution at above 15fps.

 

Does it mean that I have to bump up another model to get the resolution I need?

 

If so, I might as well go with the GeoVision Combo card for a similar price.

[Soundy 1]

Camera TVL has *NO* relationship to DVR FPS limitations. None, nada, zilch, zero.

Some systems do have an interdependence between CAPTURE resolution and framerate, but that's not at all connected to camera resolution.

 

Got it. But I do want to take advantage of my cameras as far as I can, so a 540 TVL does allow for higher captures, resulting in lower FPS.

 

Nyet. Two problems with that logic:

 

One: maximum vertical capture resolution for all these cards is 480 pixels. Thus, anything over 480TVL is largely wasted... and the difference would be virtually unnoticeable anyway.

 

Two: If the card only does D1 resolution at the expense of total overall framerate, then you need to record at CIF to get maximum framerate, thus further "wasting" a higher-TVL camera.

 

That should include the software for that price, I would hope... as Rory notes, the cards are largely commodity items; it's the software you're paying for.

 

Is it possible that after paying for this card, at this price, I would have to pay for each CCTV cam additionally?

 

Not on any system I've ever seen. Vigil, VI, and GV at least, if you buy a 16-channel card, you get a full 16-channel-capable system. Period.

 

The only way I've ever seen per-camera licensing on this type of a setup would be when you go to IP cameras, and not all of them use that sort of licensing structure either (some license it in blocks of 2, 4, 8, etc.)

[archik100 0]

Soundy,

 

If so, what what resolution/FPS combo should I be looking at?

 

I'm looking to get the most I reasonably can from my cameras.

 

In other words, what minimum model would fit my needs?