Night Camera for backyard

[PoorOwner 0]

Can you recommend a good night vision camera(s) for my yard.

 

Does it have to be B/W? Does it mean in day time it might become too bright and un-usable?

 

Also the ones that are color that claims to turn B/W at night, do they work as good as a true B/W?

 

I have a clover OCD225 color and the night vision is just poor despite with the IR LEDs you have to walk up really close to get a blurry blue face image.

 

That makes me decide against a color camera because it is practically useless at night unless you have powerful flood lights with it.

 

I would like clear image from the eave to fence, about 16-20 ft at night.

 

Also, what does CS camera stand for?

[VST_Man 1]

i recommend you buy a 3103 ir bullet from http://www.cctvimports.com priced at about $65, color, does night fair. i recommend this only because i've seen many recommendations on ir bullet camera's that end up disappointing YOU. start out with this one to "see" how well it works.

 

i've tested many camera's and pound for pound this 65 dollar wonder does very well.

 

unless you go with an extreme you'll overspend the "advertised" technology and be disappointed. ir is very hard to say yes, it will work great, unless you know your stuff and have seen the area that requires ir.

 

i've got the 7706DNV's, and several other differnet camera's and can give you a password to view the 3103 against the #1 night camera if you want. PM me.

[kaysadeya 0]

Yes, the built-in LEDs on most day/night camera should illuminate your area. If you need more, you can add an inexpensive LED illuminator.

 

Also keep in mind that IR LEDs burn out long before the camera does.

[VST_Man 1]

ok, i'll just put it out there for all to view. goto http://67.76.229.133/videoinsight

login cctv

pass; cctv

 

I'm running a VJ240 (videoinsight) 3.2Ghz, 1G, 16 camera system. I allowed a few camera's, to include CNN via DTV. I'm pushing it thru a sprint DSL. let me know how you like it?

 

Camera's 1, 4, & 5 are the 3103's($65). Camera's 2 & 4 are 7706DNV's. ($350) DNV's really work well and the 3103's do pretty good also. 3103's day color are fair and 7706's are awesome (crisp, clear, more definition)as compared to. There is one light source in the barn yard which is a incan street light type. camera 5 has no light, just ir. 2 is closest to the light, followed by 3 & 4.

 

afterthought; i just turned one #14 also which is a 3103 (modified with a 2.9mm lense) that is in my barn with the horses to show you the difference under cover. when i say modified, i changed out the lense on my own as the 3103 is not sold as a changable camera.

 

Enjoy and please comment...........

 

I'll keep this up until 0600 East Coast Time.........

[PoorOwner 0]

Looks ok, you have to order 5?

I'm under the impression some black and white cameras can let you see completely in darkness. Or should I add IR illuminators?

[rory 0]

Hi. no BW camera will see in pitch dark. It requires light. BW will recognise Infrared Lighting.

[Cooperman 0]

CS describes the lens mount on a conventional camera.

 

'C' and 'CS' are both physically identical, but with a 'CS' mount you can fit any CS, or C (with a 5mm adaptor) mount lens.

 

C mount cameras (mostly older models) can only accept C mount lenses.

 

Regarding lighting, whether it be visible or Infra Red, the further the light source from the area you are viewing, the greater the light output required to achieve a decent picture.

 

If you think about lighting an object on a tabletop with a torch, you should get a reasonably good image. If you put the same object in the back yard, and hold the torch 100' away, the results may be ever so slightly different

 

Colour cameras can be used with low level (preferably even) lighting, and under the same conditions, a Black and White camera will also exploit any IR frequencies being radiated, to produce a 'stronger' response than a colour unit.

 

It is a common mistake to automatically assume that the options are simply, high intensity floodlighting or Infra Red, and nothing else can be considered.

 

With solid state LED illuminators, in theory if the manufacturer slightly under runs the diodes, they (being solid state components) should reasonably last as long as the camera components. In practice, the LED's are often driven at the limit of their performance to maximise IR emmission, and this is what generally leads to premature failure.

 

As rory says, no conventional CCTV camera will see in pitch dark, some visible light (for colour) or IR light (for B&W) is required; although of course, hugely expensive intensifier cameras can produce images in virtually zero illumination (sub starlight).

 

VST_Man, trust me for being so slow, I missed seeing the horses

[VST_Man 1]

I'll open it back up as I am proud of my kids............3 warmbloods, 1 Morgan. Just the ptz and CNN this time..i disabled the ptz..............just gave you a picture of them in the back pasture here. Enjoy..............

[bryan1656 0]

I really like the Sony ExView and SuperHAD CCD boards for low-light.

 

The camera below would be my suggestion, although I haven't been able to personally benchtest this one yet. As soon as I get some money saved up, I am going to buy one os these to take aclose look at. From the specs, it looks like I've used the same CCD on board cams, and I've used similar lenses on board cams.... I've just never used this particular config in a bullet.

 

However, this has the low-light lux rating I'd be looking for, and it has good resolution specs. Anyway....

 

SuperCircuits has them retailing for about $130 and the model number they use is the PC88WR. http://www.supercircuits.com [Not a recommendation, just an example.]

 

PC88WR Specs:

Sony Super HAD Ex-View CCD

0.0003 lux

600 line resolution

metal weatherproof enclosure

3.6 MM precision microlens with 92 degree FOV

compact 0.75 diameter X 2.67 long

12 volts DC at 100 mA

 

If somebody has feedback on this cam, I'd love to hear it. I've been looking at it to use in just the application posted... residential general use low-light capable.

 

 

Question for PoorOwner, why do you want to use IR lighting instead of regular outdoor security lighting?

[rory 0]

I havent used that one specifically, I imagine its OEM from china.

But ive used another OEM BW Exview, 420TVL, the issue was the quality was not that of a 420TVL camera, it was just not as clear, though it could see in very low light.

 

Though, compared to a standard BW 0.1 Lux camera, it made little difference, as the image was unusable in that very low lighting. I had them both here side by side, gave the exview back to sell as didnt need it.

 

Let us know how it goes though, could be a decent camera. Bullets though, never have the high resolution of a Pro camera, even with the same speced TVL. But they are discreet and easy to install, and thats what makes them nice.

 

This is the color one i have used:

http://www.csi-speco.com/cart/products/productDetails.asp?prodID=568

 

When I asked them why they didnt have a BW Exview, they said because B/W cameras just dont sell anymore to make it worth it. In fact, getting a BW camera from my Dists in Miami is like pulling teeth now. They carry the Day Nights and Colors .. in stock. They dont listen to me when i say "but yeah, that color cant see in the low light I have here, I need at least a 0.1 lux BW .. and no, I cant afford the Good Day Night" ... ;-(

[bryan1656 0]

Oh yeah.. I know it. Everyone is all about the color... but you can get higher resolution with B/W and they are better for IR.

 

I'd prefer higher resolution chipsets, especially when your using low quality glass (plastic) optics on these less expensive cams. - Which means my default is with b/w cams. I like color in there somewhere for some apps so that you can get color descriptions... but depending on a number of factors, the color recorded/viewed doesn't look the same is what the color actually was. Ferinstance... metallic gold cars can look silver or white whith some cams and under some conditions. This can present problems for investigations and for court.... you've got three witnesses, one describing the car as tan, one gold, and the other says creme... and then your video shows it kind of whitish.

 

Anyway... yeah.. I like the B/W cams better too as a general rule.. for thier better suitability for low light and higher resolution... especially when you are trying to get the most out of lower end equipment like board (and bullet) cams.

 

And yeah... the specs are a good starting point, but due to all sorts of variables, just because the chip is capable of 420 lines doesn't mena that is anywhere near what is coming out of the wires on the back end. That's why I try to T&E when I can.

[rory 0]

T%E?? ( Trial and Error?)

 

YEah Ive taken out most of my low res cams from when im selling ..except the couple cheapos .. for the broke people down here .. (like maself)

 

BW is the best for low lighting for sure, there is no getting around that. A True Day Night camera is just as good, once it is the right model, but then $$$.

 

A night club owner here, he wanted color in the car park so we went exview color, had to get color of shirts, cars, etc, Tons of light though. But course for the rest of the club, had to be BW, tried every low light camera out there, but none, not even the most expensive ones, would perform even as well as a 0.1 lux 420TVL BW bullet camera which they have had for 4 years now (been trying to get them to switch out to 600TVL WizKid Domes for years now).

 

Cant get away from the people that want color though. Just have to make sure they provide adequate lighting .. I have some clients, with color in the stores, ofcourse lighting is off at night, so they are using Motion Sensor Lights, works great. Someone breaks in lights come on as they walk in the area of the lights, alarm system also installed ofcourse with 30+ watt sirens and strobe lights, monitored by CS and Dialer.

 

ofcourse for IR you need BW, or a True Day Night. Actually High Res is not required for IR, med res performs better in IR (so they say).

[PoorOwner 0]

So bryan you don't have any experience with that camera yet? Does it have the IR LEDs built in?

 

Does it have a good field of view, being so narrow.

 

FINALLY Do these cameras work in day time or will it look to white and bright.

[kaysadeya 0]

You're correct to be concerned about B&W in bright lighting situations. In my system, I’ve found that my B&W cams just can’t deal with lighting that is half sunlit and half shade. Smear all over the place! I have color cams (regular, not day/night) that cover the same area and they perform much better under the same lighting situation.

 

My B&W cams have a lot of adjustment options, so I’m hoping that I have yet to discover the correct combination. (It’s just that my cams are about 15 feet in the air and the terrain underneath is very “ladder hostile,â€

[rory 0]

You're correct to be concerned about B&W in bright lighting situations. In my system, I’ve found that my B&W cams just can’t deal with lighting that is half sunlit and half shade. Smear all over the place! I have color cams (regular, not day/night) that cover the same area and they perform much better under the same lighting situation.

 

My B&W cams have a lot of adjustment options, so I’m hoping that I have yet to discover the correct combination. (It’s just that my cams are about 15 feet in the air and the terrain underneath is very “ladder hostile,â€

[PoorOwner 0]

So maybe a color camera with flood lighting is the way to go. The color camera also seem to be enhanced by IR LEDs, for example my color camera have 11 IR LEDs and you would see a circle of blue being lit up at night.

 

Now I am not sure if I want completely good night vision since that won't give me good image in day time. And, having both color and BW of camera in one location (to cover day and night) doesn't seem to be ideal.

[bryan1656 0]

Rory: T&E = Testing and Evaluation

 

 

Poorowner: No I don't have experience with that bullet yet. Although I've used board cameras that had identicial specs on the board, and I've used board cameras with the same microlens.

 

The field of view is about 90 degrees.

 

The more affordable (I hate saying "cheap") cams using the ExVIEW and SuperHAD, etc. that have lux numbers in the .02 - .0002 range are going to be best suited for almost exclusive low light applications. You are right in thinking that the lux sensitivity will cause problems in full daylight. A camera such as the one I posted as an example would be what I'd be looking at for use when the concern was primarily getting good pictures at night, like when someone was creeping around at night under the cover of darkness. Specific problem - more specific solution.

 

For overall general residential CCTV that includes god daytime... then you are thinking as I would. Less sensitive to IR and using exterior security lighting to help you get good images at night.

 

Keep in mind that visible light contains light in the IR spectrum. The only reason to use IR only light is to be able to light up the area for viewing covertly...without using visible lights. (Although many active IR illuminators advertised as invisible actually give off a tell tale red glow! Buyer beware!)

 

Good day/night cams can work very well. Although limited, my experience with "more affordable" day/night cams... where the IR filter is switched out of the ay of the lens under low light conditions, ... is that these often seem to get "confused" during intermediate periods such as dsk and dawn.. and rapid changes in light such as headlight wash, etc. can trick them up... it varies from cam to cam and from install to install on whether or not it would be a problem.

 

I'd say that for all around general residential use, you could do pretty well to find an affordable color day/night cam at at least 420 lines and about .2 to .02 lux - and then augment with motion activated exterior security light(s) such as a dual 150 watt PAR, or even low watage lights out in your yard helping to illuminae any specific target areas, such as gates, near trees where someone might be able to climb over easily, etc.

[bryan1656 0]

just to add:

 

PoorOwner... You've mostly posted about specific needs such as a night cam for back yard... but it is really difficult to make any specific suggestions without knowing more.

 

For instance, if you were a possible client and I went out to consult with you, I'd be asking some of the following questions and looking at some of the following issues based on your report of an outdoor intruder and your desire for outdoor video surveillance:

 

What kind of activity is going on?

Where is it taking place?

How big is the yard?

What are it's dimensions?

Where would the camera's need to be mounted?

How high from the ground?

At what angle to the primary area of interest?

How far from the primary area of interest?

What side of the house will the cam need to be mounted on?

Are there any trees, shrubs, or nearby structures creating any shading considerations?

What is the lighting environment at night? Are there nearby street lights, etc.?

Do you already have any groundlighting or other ornamental/security lighting in place?

What is needed from the CCTV? Detection, Orientation, Recognition, Identification, what?

Will it be monitored? triggered on motion? triggered on alarm?

Is there an intrusion detection system?

What about physical security improvements? Would repairing a fence, or securing a gate, or a barrier palnting, etc. contribute to area denial?

 

Really.. the list goes on and on....

 

The problem could be addressed well with an inexpensive day/night weatherproof dome camera(s) and some exterior lighting - or the sitation might call for a C/CS mount low light cam with a varifocal auto iris zoom lens and custom built IR illuminator along with planting some thorny shrubs, repairing a fence, and installing some low voltage lighting out in the back yard.

 

For the sake of arguement, let's say both solutions cost exactly the same and fit in your budget.

 

Without setting foot on your property and discussing your needs, it is difficult for anyone to recommend even a narrow range of specific equipment items that would be "best" for you.

 

IMNSHO, security is a process, not an assembly of techno doo-dads.

 

I think we are all trying to help here... but we are all tending to hear different things from you and making differnt leaps according to our own personal experience and making different recommendations based on what each of us is envisioning...based on limited written information from you via the errornet...... in then end.. what many of us my adivise here could be very different than what we told you of we were able to see the target area and talk to you in person.

[Cooperman 0]

Great advice bryan 1656,

 

A suggestion to add to your list is .... which way does the sun travel across the sky. Too often cameras are installed pointing directly towards the sun, with inevitable problems.

 

One thing worth trying with daylight problems on a B/W camera; if there is plenty of sensitivity in low light and I/R is not being used, try fitting a 'thin' blue filter over the lens (thin as in very light colour, not the physical thickness!). For test purposes, you can pick up 'gel' filters very cheaply from a photographic dealer.

 

This will act as an IR block filter and whilst it won't significantly affect the cameras low end sensitivity, it should help redress the problems caused by intense IR reflectance, in mixed bright sunlight / shade conditions.

[PoorOwner 0]

Hi, I'll try to describe the situation better regarding my security concern.

 

There are 4 sides to my yard, for simplicity I would say it is about 20x40 ft 1 side is the patio / house, 2 sides are 2 different neighbors, fenced (I'm in a corner lot). 1 side is gate/fence facing the street. This fence is barely 6 ft tall. You can just walk up and peek at my patio (living room door), and also see my shed. Not good. I'm working on getting a higher fence. But of course budget does not allow for a year or two.. landscaping is expensive.

 

Recently I have found foot prints on my newly seeded lawn. It scared the heck out of me. incoming and outgoing footprints towards neightbors side fence though. Someone took a tour of me and 2 neighbors I bet. My neighbor does not even have a lock into his yard I bet thats how someone entered. Maybe some kid climbed and retreive a ball, I don't know.

 

The backyard lighting include (auto dust to dawn) yard floodlight, and motion detector flood light. both wired to 1 switch, well I am not in a habit of turning it on before. I really only want to have the motion light working.. but yard light is for when I go outside at night. I might have to leave these on permanantly.

 

Is it a good idea to leave the yard light every night? It is bright enough to let anyone peeking over my lowly fence to see the patio and shed at night. Would the light aid a thief better (to just grab stuff in my yard if not broken into the house?)

 

I am mounting at least 2 cameras, possibly 3 onto the house. It will be attached to the eave.. siding etc.

 

Yesterday I installed the first camera looking from corner of roof down to patio. clover 1/4" CCD, color, 11 LED, 330 lines, I am not so happy with the image quality. Not going to get facial features for sure. But, it does ok to see motion in day time and night (if floodlight is on). And even in the dark it see a little with IR.

 

To tell you the truth, I am hoping the camera be a deterent than actually being able to be court evidence. I am going to have a home alarm sign on my backyard lawn so the fence peekers will see. Also "under camera surveillance signs".

 

Sometimes I am not even sure what the cameras would do any good if the intruders don't know about it, don't you agree? But since I am installing cameras, I might as well try to fit my budget and get a good image.

 

Thanks bryan you really got me thinking, I don't know what I want really, and what angles I should survey. I tend to like to turn lights off so I am saving electricity. (utilities are quite expensive where I live).

[bryan1656 0]

Cooperman, I'm with you. I wasn't precise enough when I asked. "What side of the house will the cam need to be mounted on?". I was looking for exactly the info you mentioned. Thanks for the suggestion, though. Direction is a VERY important factor sometimes!!

 

PoorOwner, based *soley* on what you've posted (and please correct me if I've misunderstood or failed to appreciate anything):

 

The footprints didn't approach and linger at a window or door. So, I see no reason to suspect a "peeping tom"/sexual offender, nor a burglar doing some "window shopping".

 

You also don't describe any harassment, inappropriate contacts or communications, vandalism, or other similar activity. So, I see no reason to suspect any stalking activity.

 

You've got a motion detector flood which I assume is sufficient to illuminate your 20'x40' backyard area. This sounds good, especially since you also have a similar floodlight on a photo sensor to illuminate the area during hours of darkness. Generally, lighting helps deter night time prowlers by denying them concealment and providing a sense of being observed. Motion detecror lights add to the deterrence significantly. They also provide for safety when using the area at night, allowing you to see. If utility cost is a concern, then you should be able to add another switch fairly easily, or add a motion detector to that light, as well.

 

Personally, whether to leave the light on all night is up to you. Night prowlers are generally rare. Most burglars case during the day. Unless you have other specific security concerns or systems needs causing you to need the light on all night, then I'd say you'd be fine putting that light on a motion detector w/ indorr switch. this would enable it to turn on with motion, as well as allow you to turn it on when you wanted to look outside, or go out into the yard.

 

When you switch to a complete motion/switch activated system - it may be a good idea to upgrade some of your exterior lighting to a higher wattage light. If it isn't on all the time, then it won't be a concern on the electric bill, or for shining in the neighbors windows - but it will provide more light for you and yor cameras.

 

I dont' generally recommend more than a 6" privacy fence. A fence can provide privacy and safety (especially with young kids), but they can also create a sense of privacy for burglars, as well.

 

If deterrence is your main focus (pun intended, there) then some "dummy cameras/domes" might be a very cost effective alternative for you. I've seen them work very well in some situaitons. But to serve as a deterrent, you've got to draw attention to the CCTV. You are exactly right, for CCTV to serve as a deterrent, the bad guys have to know about it. But will there be any neighborhood kids who might be inspired to prank the guy on the corner with all the video surveillance? This will be a judgement that you'll have to make.

 

Generally, security signage is a very good idea and serves as a strong deterrent.

 

For a maximum of 40' - I'd say most of the more affordable weatherproof cams that are "infinty" focused should be fine for your purposes and desire to stay within a tight budget. You could upgrade to 480 lines horizontal resolution (or greater) and see a dramatic increase in picture quality, provided there was enough light.

 

If you wanted to get a good identification level image of anyone at the rear door or other vulnerable ingress point, then you could add a camera there with a tight FOV. That's not a recommendation, mind you, just a "if you wanted to".

 

Again, based solely on the little information you posted... if you were my client, I'd tell you that your current camera is at least a camera, which is good. Let's see if you continue to have problems with people coming in the yard and see what the video picks up on, if anything.

 

Until then, save a little money away to possibly use for upgrading your camera later, if the need arises. - OR - In the meantime, that money might be better spent going towards installing or updating your alarm, addressing physical security with your doors and windows, or possibly putting in some barrier planting with any place where the area kids like to climb the fence.

 

 

 

anyway... my two cents - I hope this helps - Other opinions are welcomed and encouraged!

[kaysadeya 0]

Good stuff bryan1656!

[rory 0]

the freaks come out at night down here

 

If I had a house ... he he , Id have a Large wall with Razor wire on top, more razor wire at the bottom of the wall on the other side, a ditch with some spikes and more razor wire, and a fence made entirely of razor wire, electrified, then a short gap to a regular fence to save my butt when im drunk, dazed and confused. some major lighting and RedNet beams in the "moat" area, as well as Microwave buried sensors around the inner fence,,,, cameras everywheres ...some congo type auto tracking machine gunz .... he he he ..

[DataAve 0]

11 IR LEDs and you would see a circle of blue being lit up at night

Bad camera-lens is set too far back and is picking up the IR's. Had 2 like that and they took them back after I showed them, cause I bought 4 and the other 2 didn't do it.

[DataAve 0]

the freaks come out at night down here

 

If I had a house ... he he , Id have a Large wall with Razor wire on top, more razor wire at the bottom of the wall on the other side, a ditch with some spikes and more razor wire, and a fence made entirely of razor wire, electrified, then a short gap to a regular fence to save my butt when im drunk, dazed and confused. some major lighting and RedNet beams in the "moat" area, as well as Microwave buried sensors around the inner fence,,,, cameras everywheres ...some congo type auto tracking machine gunz .... he he he ..

 

...and if when that doesn't hold them off, you can always use the ak 47.