Car DVR - looking for some decent mini-cameras

[mituc 0]

Hello Everyone,

 

A while ago I bought a DVR that has the following facilities, among others:

- the possibility to record on hard drive (I fitted in my 80GB laptop hard drive, if it will break from vibrations I'll just replace it with an SSD);

- 4 video and 2 audio channels;

- a hot wire chat can be connected to an analogic 12V alarm sensor, so when the alarm is triggered the DVR starts recording.

 

This is the actual device: http://www.szest.com/en/product_info.asp?ArticleID=80 - mine is the MDR1045 version.

 

I also made some tests, they were good but still the quality of the recording seems to be affected negatively by the video camera refresh rate.

 

Here are some images.

 

1. The camera, the GPS sensor (for speed and position recording) and the hard drive cage:

 

2. The front-panel of the DVR:

 

3. the whole package and wiring all together spread on my floor:

 

From the very beginning I had two challenges:

- the first one was to find some good video mini-cameras;

- the second one was to find a good place for the DVR somewhere in the car, somewhere where it's accessible so that I can take the hard-drive off and to put it back in, and still for the DVR not stay in the way or affect the ability to transport luggage or people. It didn't fit under the passenger seat so probably the next good spot for it would be in the trunk, vertically on the back-side of the back-seat. If you have any better suggestions I'd appreciate it, my car is a Mazda 3 (mazdaspeed3), so if you know a good place in the car for a 180*173*42 mm box please let me know.

 

I'm giving you all these details because maybe someone has better ideas and can come up with some better suggestions.

 

However, I'm looking for some good mini-cameras, The following footage was taken with the camera you can see in the first image (Sony 1/3`` CCD sensor, pinhole lenses, 16x16 mm, 420TV Lines, 0.05lux light sensitivity - wow!, - however this is a bit too small though, I've been exaggerating a bit when I bought it ).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0QjuaSe_sE

 

One can barely see the number on the license plate of the car in the front from more than 3-4 meters, so apart from giving some ideas about the scene... there aren't too many useful details.

 

Along with the mini-camera suggestions I could use even some opinions about where to place the cameras inside the car (I want at least one in the front and one in the back) so that they are not so visible from the outside of the vehicle and also to be hard to remove accidentally by the passengers (small fixing sockets and such should also be fine as long as they are indeed small).

[Soundy 1]

I dunno, those pictures look pretty good to me, all things considered. You'd have a hard time getting more detail than that without going to a megapixel camera. "Refresh rate" on an analog video camera is fixed - 30fps for NTSC, 25fps for PAL... perhaps you mean shutter speed?

[tweak'e 0]

there are a few on this forum who have car dvr's, mostly avermedia ones.

25fps per camera is very good. most i've seen are 25fps divided between the cameras (ie 2x cameras = 12fps).

 

unit mounting, unless you using SSD drives you need to mount them flat as hardrives can't handle the bumps very well when the unit is on edge. some drives are not bad with shock/vibration but other are hopeless.

one common place to mount is top of parcel tray or trunk. ie hanging down. also check under rear seats, often theres a space there but you may have to get creative on the cooling side if things.

 

cameras. to get license plate you really need 6mm lens minimum. the standard ~3mm, as you have found, is not good for plates. fine for overview which is what i generally use the front camera for.

rear camera, i use a modified CCD reversing camera. its only a cheap camera but with 8mm lens it will (on a good day) ID a plate at around 15m. downside is you tend to miss things out to the side more (ie vehicle overtaking).

the good thing with a reversing camera, is it looks just like a reversing camera! however you do need to keep the lens clean.

if you want one mounted on the inside of the window a few places make them.

 

an 80gig hardrive, you will probably find it to small, especially with mpeg2 @ 25fps per camera. you really need a 250+gig unless you plan on downloading the vids every day.

[mituc 0]

This DVR has also some anti-shock case with some rubber shock absorbers. If the disk drive will break I'll simply change it with an SSD. I'm not worrying about it overfilling, the DVR can manage that and delete the older videos, and in case of an incident all I need is the latest footage(s).

 

If the car overtakes me I may not be interested in the license plate number unless it hits me , and I'll catch (hopefully) the license plate number on the front camera. I intend to have side cameras as well but only for surveillance, when the car stays parked, those need to be just small and have a good light sensitivity (less than 1Lux, ideally 0.1 or 0.05), not also very good. The one I have right now should do just fine even if the side windows are tinted.

 

 

About the cameras, I'm a total newbie on this to you need to be patient with me

 

Regarding the video I posted, it looks to me that the resolution is too low and that's the reason why the license plate becomes visible at about 3-4-5 meters.

So the idea was to have small cameras, barely visible from the outside (probably I won't be able to hide the one in the front), that would record both while car is moving or when it's parked but the alarm sensor is hot. The one I have seems to be too small and the resolution may be around 510x492 or so, even though the TL lines spec is high (being a newbie on cameras I thought that a high TV lines spec will just do).

Now, I'm wondering if a bit larger cameras with resolutions like 778x492 or so will offer a better image quality. I can't decide between these, even though they are small enough and probably suitable for what I want, I don't know enough about cameras so be sure that i'm going to take the right decision (I home I'm allowed to post external links):

http://www.yotang.com/ccd-mm-car-camera-wholesale_p60

http://www.madeinchina.com/2726151/P5539019/0-0003-Lux-Miniature-B-W-CCD-Camera-20x20mm.shtml

http://www.bydsz.com/en/pop_products.asp?kind=215&id=720&color=1

http://www.bydsz.com/en/pop_products.asp?kind=215&id=719&color=1

(and basically most of the 520-550tv lines cameras from here: http://www.bydsz.com/en/products_list.asp?kind=2 ).

 

I'm also wondering what kind of camera are they using for this application: http://www.yotang.com/ccd-car-camera-and-recorder-kit-wholesale_p3460 and what's the image quality. I asked them this question about 2 weeks ago and got no answer, and in the meanwhile they have that 2 weeks vacation for the Chinese new year.

 

Moreover, I also don't know how is the effect of the various kind of lens on the image quality. Since I have to order them directly from China I kind of have one shot , and I could really use some help on this.

 

P.S.: I'm really impressed how fast people replied. Thank you very much guys!

[tweak'e 0]

there is not much point getting high res cameras as the recorder only records at D1 (704x576) anyway. the recorder is the limiting factor rather than the cameras. your better to use higher quality cameras but even then its not going to get a plate at much longer range but it may handle changing light conditions better (which can be a big problem with car dvr's). also getting high quality products out of china can be very hit and miss.

the size of cameras makes little difference, you usually just pay more.

 

side cameras would be ok with pinhole lenses tho not sure on mounting. i have seen some but they where mounted on the other side and viewed through the car (mainly to catch thieves). to get number plates you need to get a camera with narrow angle lens.

[mituc 0]

As long as the camera would get a plate from, say, 10 meters it should be fine and much more reasonable than now when it needs less than a car length to get them (while 2-3 car lengths would be fine). These being said, what are the parameters and figures I should look at when searching for a camera that would fit my requirements?

Also, as I said, I'm a total newbie on this. So if you think the way I'm generally evaluating a camera to narrow the search area is wrong just let me know what should I look at instead.

 

Also, I'd appreciate if you could indicate a web site from the US/UK/Germany/whatever_but_not_China where I could find some decent mini cameras (the shipment costs would be lower as well). I was looking to get them from China only because so far, after a few weeks/months of googleing those web sites were the most complete by the number camera models and tech specs.

[tweak'e 0]

~3-4m range ie one car length.

around 1m at a guess.

pics off my cheap camera setup.

(hope the pics work as photobucket is down at the mo)

 

3-4 car lengths starts getting tricky unless you have a really good camera.

[mituc 0]

Ok, your resolution is far better than mine and I can tell that only by looking at the license plate of that nissan navara/patrol/whatever which is at 7-8 meters behind you. I understand that for the rear you have a ordinary reverse camera + better lenses, and because of the lenses means that the whole thing is a bit bigger than what I want. So do you think that some lenses like these:

http://www.yotang.com/waterproof-wired-surveillance-camera-adjustable-wide-lens-wholesale_p4137

would do?... eventually combined with a higher resolution camera? Or these: http://www.yotang.com/variable-focal-length-lens-for-cs-mount-cameras-wholesale_p4103 ?

 

My question about another web sites where I could find what I'm looking for still stands, so if you can give me any hints I'd appreciate it.

[tweak'e 0]

Ok, your resolution is far better than mine and I can tell that only by looking at the license plate of that nissan navara/patrol/whatever which is at 7-8 meters behind you. I understand that for the rear you have a ordinary reverse camera + better lenses, and because of the lenses means that the whole thing is a bit bigger than what I want. ......

 

the white nissan navara D40 is actually 4-5m, i can tell via the blind spot in my mirrors. the pics always seam to look like its a lot further away than it is.

thats only a no name 420 line camera with 8mm board lens. i would have to dig through the footage to find one at 10-15m, but number plate starts becoming hard to read at that distance. granted a better camera will see it but size of number plate gets really small in the pic. but a wider angle lens will make it worse. so bit of a trade off.

[mituc 0]

Ok, I dug some time on the forum partners web pages and I came across these:

Lots of them, bullet and square cameras, all small and apparently quite capable:

http://www.ktncusa.com/english/viewforum.php?f=81

http://www.ktncusa.com/english/viewforum.php?f=85

 

All of a sudden there are so many options I don't even know which one to order. I'll probably get this one as the head camera:

http://www.ktncusa.com/english/viewtopic.php?t=430

with the 6mm lens option for the decently wide angle, the camera resolution is already higher than what my DVR can record so it should be fine. As for ear a small square camera would do.

 

What do you guys think?

[tweak'e 0]

http://www.ktncusa.com/english/viewtopic.php?t=645

http://www.ktncusa.com/english/viewtopic.php?t=653

 

if you can afford them. just thinking the WDR would be great for mobile. one problem you certainly do get is fast changing light conditions and lots of shaded spots. WDR should help with that.

[rory 0]

I was just going to say, check out the KT&C cameras.

They have to be the largest maker of mini cameras, they have tons of them.

BTW that 0.05 Lux / Faceplate, is really 0.5 Lux.

[mituc 0]

Great! Now the next step would be to find a kt&c reseller and check the prices and stocks for those cameras. I've found one in the forum partners section, but they seem to be working only with resellers. If someone has knowledge about a reseller, eventually with an on-line store I'd appreciate if you could let me know.

[mituc 0]

Ok, if I'll find one of those WDR cameras I'll get them.

 

By the way, does it make any sense to get a camera like this one:

http://www.ktncusa.com/english/viewtopic.php?t=425

...which already has some 3.6 board lens and punt one some lens such as:

http://store.pcsurveillance.net/KLV_3080DCB_Varifocal_AutoIris_Lens_p/klv-3080dcb.htm ?

 

The guys from pcsurveillance seem to have the KPC-VBN190 camera as well (not the DNR series which have the WDR function unfortunatelly), so unless I can find another on-line store I may consider the above mentioned combination - if it makes sense of course.

[tweak'e 0]

only problem with bullet cameras is how to mount them. maybe ok under the vehicle, under spoiler or on top of dash. the square cameras are not to bad, mine front just velcro'ed to the windscreen.

it cops a fair bit of reflection off the screen so that another mod at a later date.

 

i wonder who supplies the police cameras, some i've seen where fixed hard up against the glass.

[mituc 0]

Well I was thinking that I could velcro the bullet camera on top of the dash, close to the bottom corner of the windscreen on the passenger side, and a bullet would look better there than a square camera which would also draw attention more easily from outside the vehicle.

[tweak'e 0]

usually put it up high otherwise front of vehicle obscures the view. also either centre of vehicle for over all view or drivers side so camera sees what drivers sees (and is in centre of road where most of the action takes place).

[mituc 0]

Indeed, so I'll go for the square cameras.

 

The thing is that I couldn't find anywhere on the forum any link to a dealer having what I wanted. There is a thread called "Where to buy?" which of course doesn't provide too much usable information.

I found the KT&C KPC-VSN500, VSN700 and DNR700 cameras on ebay. I found the VSN 500/700 cameras at pcsurveillance.net and they were significantly cheaper than the ones I found on ebay (around $75 versus $129, normally you'd expect to be the other way around), therefore I'm wondering if it really worth spending $159 for the DNR700 as found on ebay or still keep looking for it on some other on-line stores, or, maybe I should just acquire the VSN500s and call it a day. Since I need only one a small difference wouldn't be a problem, but it's not just a small difference, it's about $50 per camera which is huge considering that I need 2 or 3 (the transportation and taxes from the US to my location would be about that, so not too cheap).

 

I know that I'm a bit offtopic but does anyone really know about a good/decent on-line store?

[liteace 0]

Indeed, so I'll go for the square cameras.

 

The thing is that I couldn't find anywhere on the forum any link to a dealer having what I wanted. There is a thread called "Where to buy?" which of course doesn't provide too much usable information.

I found the KT&C KPC-VSN500, VSN700 and DNR700 cameras on ebay. I found the VSN 500/700 cameras at pcsurveillance.net and they were significantly cheaper than the ones I found on ebay (around $75 versus $129, normally you'd expect to be the other way around), therefore I'm wondering if it really worth spending $159 for the DNR700 as found on ebay or still keep looking for it on some other on-line stores, or, maybe I should just acquire the VSN500s and call it a day. Since I need only one a small difference wouldn't be a problem, but it's not just a small difference, it's about $50 per camera which is huge considering that I need 2 or 3 (the transportation and taxes from the US to my location would be about that, so not too cheap).

 

I know that I'm a bit offtopic but does anyone really know about a good/decent on-line store?

 

 

Sorry to dig this one up, Im planning an in-car install as well. Did you get any further with yours and what camera's did you go for in the end ?

 

Thanks

[mituc 0]

yes, I installed mine and I have it on my car for some time now. I have the DNR700 camera but the movie quality is not that good mainly because of the car DVR I'm using.

[liteace 0]

yes, I installed mine and I have it on my car for some time now. I have the DNR700 camera but the movie quality is not that good mainly because of the car DVR I'm using.

 

 

Thanks for the info, what lens option did you go for, I see there are 7 different options on the norm lens and 3 different options on the pinhole

 

Thanks

[mituc 0]

Now I have the 6mm lens which are ok.

I've also got the 2.8-12mm lens but I was unable to obtain an image with those. They would have been too heavy for my velcro fix anyway.

 

Here is a sample with my on-board szest DVR:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQyjlJxZ8Q

[tomcctv 190]

Now I have the 6mm lens which are ok.

I've also got the 2.8-12mm lens but I was unable to obtain an image with those. They would have been too heavy for my velcro fix anyway.

 

Here is a sample with my on-board szest DVR:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJQyjlJxZ8Q

 

 

nice little clear set-up you have built.

[tweak'e 0]

not bad at all.

hope you don't have to many problems with the hardrives.

[liteace 0]

yes, I installed mine and I have it on my car for some time now. I have the DNR700 camera but the movie quality is not that good mainly because of the car DVR I'm using.

 

 

Hi I have just got a 1/3" SONY CCTV Camera Color Board CCD, 420TVL, with 6mm lens that I have installed in a plastic box and sits behind aluminium plate I made, I looked at the DNR700, I think (correct me if im wrong) that uses the same camera & board as what I just got but has extra board with OSD, have you played with the settings in the OSD menu, does it make a big difference ?

 

Thanks