In Search of full D1 recording DVR cards that records to AVI

[FranciscoNET 0]

Hi,

 

I came to this forums long time ago in search for a DVR card that records in true D1 resolutions, but at that time, the few *aceptable* ones that I found were too over priced. Maybe now new brands/prices has dropped and new supported brands are even introduces into the market so I will try again since I am trying to leave the CIF 352x288 outdated resolutions in favor of 704x756 WITHOUT sacrificing a few GOODIES that I have been enjoying with the currents CIF cards I am currently working with.

 

Here is what I am looking for

 

* Card should record at full D1 resolution.

* software should record in a file extension ending in *.avi or *.mpg to the hard drive (without having to deal with converting videos in order to get that resulting video format). All those other software that records in a format such as *.dvr, *.BIM (like the Kodicoms), *.dat and others not standard video formats does NOT qualify my business. In other works, if Windows Media Player doesn't understand the file formats, if my Nero Vision DVD Video Disc creator cannot parse the video created by said software, it does NOT quality my business as its VERY important that software like NERO Vision can read the DVR recorded videos for my case.

 

Currently, when I need to burn an evidence to a DVD playable disc, this is what I do:

I open up My Computer, I go to the partition that I have designated all videos to be saved (Drive E: in my case), I go to the folder matching the date, then the folder matching the channels, then I select as many videos I want to include in my burn job and select "COPY". Then I start NERO Vision and select "Create DVD Video", then on the box I select "PASTE". After transcoding the .AVI videos into .VOB MPEG2 DVD format, then it burns the DVD discs that the police can easily play back in a court in the TV they got at the Jury room. All what they have to do is pop in my DVD into their DVD player, press Play, and that's it. Pretty much easy, right? Well exactly this I would like to be able to do, but with that other software at D1 resolutions.

 

At CIF resolutions, sometimes its very VERY hard to get a positive facial identification, specially if the subject is a little too far away from the camera(s), and having 600TVL cameras here at my places it would make much sense to switch to full D1 recording resolutions as that would greatly help. (I have been combating the quality of the video by not compressing the videos too much to make them look as cinematic as possible, but STILL 352x288 pixels is still 352x288 pixels and no matter how I optimize the settings, I am still bound by the CIF limitations).

 

In the past, we have spend a great deal of money purchasing a few cards, mainly off Ebay, that records in D1 resolutions only to find out that we dont like the software, therefore these cards are sitting at my drawer doing nothing. EVERY card that we have purchased that records at anything higher than 352x288 stores their videos in any one of the above mentioned PROPRIETARY video formats crippling the functionality of my DVR server. While it is true that some of these software comes with a "converter" to convert their .dvr video file into an .avi it does so reducing its quality to 320x240 leaving me back to square one, with the added pain of waiting 30 minutes to even hours for larger videos to finish 'converting'. So, we do not want to deal with that kind of hassle and special not-standard-video-formats, so this means NO Kodicom (that currently records in *.bim files), and no a few others I have tried already.

 

So, I would like a list of DVR cards I can try that meet my specifications.

 

Thanks to all in advance!!

[tomcctv 190]

take a look at avermedia. but if you have been buying from ebay you will find the cost alot more.

http://www.avermedia.com/AVerDiGi/Product/Detail.aspx?id=150

[FranciscoNET 0]

take a look at avermedia. but if you have been buying from ebay you will find the cost alot more.

http://www.avermedia.com/AVerDiGi/Product/Detail.aspx?id=150

 

Thanks for the suggestion. However, trying to figure out how much this specific model you recommended me costs, I did a google search for "AVerDiGi NV9000E". And even though it was hard for me to find a website that shows the price, most of them either had a "Call Us for Price" sign, or nothing at all, but the same descriptions, and here's why --> on the following webiste:

www._pcuniverse._com/AVerMedia-AVerDiGi ... d/p4686903

(note: I added underscore on the URL which you will need to manually remove when copying this URL string)

The price shown at the above site is a whopping $2,118.93

THAT was a mind blowing price, so I seeked a second opinion (another website that had a price stated for this same, exact model), and here is what I found:

www._dvrmart._com/mrt-asp-dvr_AverMedia ... detail.htm

On the second site, the price is SLIGHTLY cheaper, there you can have it for a "measly" $1,945.00

 

I am sorry, but that's still too expensive to me, VERY expensive, prohibitively.

 

.....but if you have been buying from ebay you will find the cost alot more.

Oh yeah, thanks for admitting it in advance, not "ONLY" did I found the price too be alot more than the prices I am used to see on Ebay, I found it MIND BLOWING ALOT more, I think I haven't seen a DVR card being that more expensive that what I just saw.

 

I am sorry, but I dont have Bill Gate's mansion here to monitor. Either that card got something that I really dont need, or the software developers are wayyy over pricing their software, because a PCI-E device can't possibly costs that much, even if its hardware encoding. Based on my understanding, most of the price percentage of the DVR is priced based on the software, not on the piece of hardware, but on this case, I find it to be way over kill.

 

I can at least guarantee you that if I am going to purchase a D1 DVR card at least its not going to be this one.

 

As of price is concerned, I am going to be very flexible on pricing. By that, I mean that I am not going to aim at the cheapest link I can find, but at the DVR card that will give me what I want, the quality that I want, that meets my Requirements. Price is not that much of a concern EXCEPT if its another overkill like this one.

 

Thanks

[tomcctv 190]

take a look at avermedia. but if you have been buying from ebay you will find the cost alot more.

http://www.avermedia.com/AVerDiGi/Product/Detail.aspx?id=150

that is a good price for a 16ch....... how many ch are you looking for.

[FranciscoNET 0]

take a look at avermedia. but if you have been buying from ebay you will find the cost alot more.

http://www.avermedia.com/AVerDiGi/Product/Detail.aspx?id=150

that is a good price for a 16ch....... how many ch are you looking for.

 

Ok, I am glad that $2,000 is a good price for you, because for me it isn't. I know we all got different budget and expectations, but I am in the business of installing cameras and I like to save the RETAIL part and I only pay wholesale/agent/Dealer prices.

 

I have 8 cameras at my place, and might go up to 16, most of my customers have anywhere between 4 to 8 CH with a few exceptions of a few of them that got 16 channels and like 3 of them with 32 channels.

 

Let me give you an idea what are my expectations in terms of price range of what I am looking for in these D1 cards that matches my specifications software wise; the cards that I am working with now I get them for $60 each, they are real time per channel for 8 CH. So 8 CH DVR real time I pay $60.00 It DISPLAYS at 640x480 per channel, but the recording resolution supports 352x288 max (CIF). So, when you are looking at the monitor screens, the images will look as clear as a D1 card, JUST when you playback the recordings that's where you enter the CIF world.

 

Now, to make things clear, these cards aren't worth $60.00 RETAIL WISE. If I were to pay retail I would be getting them close to $120.00 per card, but I am paying wholesale because I am purchasing them directly through a major distributor.

 

Maybe these Avermedia cards that you are referring me are worth like $800.00 to $1,000 for the 16CH in Wholesale Terms, I dont know, but I will need to check with the manufacturer and look for major distributors that carry these cards to validate this assumption of mines.

 

Currently, if I wanted 16Channels in my system I would put two of these cards I have here, that would give me 16CH for just $120.00 Compare that with $2,000.00 averages I have seen so far on the retail web stores. There's no way I am going to go from $120.00 to $2,000 for as important as D1 recording resolutions can be, there is no way I am going to make a splurge like that. I need to compete with my competitors around my area (most of them still does CIF like I am doing, but with the exception that I am trying to leave the CIF world, but most of them still plan to stay in the CIF world because they dont care about quality) and those prices aren't going to allow me to do so.

 

If the difference between CIF and D1 cards are by the thousands of dollars, then I guess I will have to stay a little longer in the CIF world until prices start dropping for the D1 cards. Its ridiculous how expensive these D1 cards are, its not like that is the top of the quality, there are megapixels NVR's out there, D1 DVR cards shouldn't be that expensive in year 2010, where we have megapixel resolutions already that is beginning to outdate the D1 cards itself.

 

So the bottom line is that I CAN'T compete with prices like these, at least NOT in my area, its useless, there have to be other manufacturers out there with much better prices with cards and software that matches my requirements. I am not going to put my business on standby, I will continue doing CIF installations and selling CIF based DVR systems UNTIL the day that I made aware of the D1 cards I am looking for at good prices, THEN I will immediately dump my CIF cards in favor of the D1 cards.

[bpzle 0]

Are you looking for D1 real time?? Aver's NV9000e card is their premier holy crap card with hardware compression at real time...

 

Look at the NV3000e. Dirt cheap and it comes with NVR software. Not real time, but for 95% of CCTV applications, 30fps is overkill.

[tomcctv 190]

take a look at avermedia. but if you have been buying from ebay you will find the cost alot more.

http://www.avermedia.com/AVerDiGi/Product/Detail.aspx?id=150

that is a good price for a 16ch....... how many ch are you looking for.

 

 

 

So the bottom line is that I CAN'T compete with prices like these, at least NOT in my area, its useless, there have to be other manufacturers out there with much better prices with cards and software that matches my requirements. I am not going to put my business on standby, I will continue doing CIF installations and selling CIF based DVR systems UNTIL the day that I made aware of the D1 cards I am looking for at good prices, THEN I will immediately dump my CIF cards in favor of the D1 cards.

 

 

 

they is many ways to sell dvrs and your way is wrong. you are selling to suit you and not your customer. you are selling to suit you and not what is needed for the install. a good installer will build a system not just for today but also for the future. and as an installer you should also educate your customer. like you said in your post cif play-back on your cards is bad, i bet you dont right that in your costing to your customer.

 

D1 cards from ebay. for $60 what makes you think you can buy a crap card then build a system and still not call it crap.

 

why not just install avtech or avermedia ready systems. it will save you lots of money. sorry i sound a little hard over this post but let me explain why, many guys on the forum work with many types of dvrs/nvrs and they install for the needs of today i myself use hybrid as the least i would install. just so the customer can go forward at a later date with ip. it does not matter were you are in the world customers will always get a few quotes and many guys on here will at some point be told that there quote is to high. a guy can do it cheaper buy $1000.

 

your that guy. selling old cif systems. it is not good to sell systems that are already out of date. you will see alot of guys on here loosing out on install contracts and thats because they will not move on quality. sometime its best to walk away from a bad customer.

[bpzle 0]

+1

 

 

$60 is too cheap for a card ad software... Anymore its rare I spend less than $75 on a camera. I've just been burned too many times by cheap unsupported crap. Time is money and if youu have to spend both to go back and fix inferrior gear its not worth it.

[Soundy 1]

+2 - there's a time-honored phrase that applies especially well to CCTV, and that is, "you get what you pay for." There's much, much more to the equation than just resolution. Total framerates factor in. Processing quality. Hardware vs. software compression - your cheap cards are letting the PC do all the work, that's why they're so cheap; expensive cards don't just convert they video, they do all the compression as well. Think reliability.

 

Think software support. Heck, think driver support - cheap cards will usually work only with a "current" version of Windows; more expensive cards will often work with multiple versions of Windows, with Linux, with other *nix variants like BSD, or even with MacOS. Some will work with your choice of software; cheap cards are often locked to specific software, meaning they make their money selling you the software after getting you with the cheap hardware.

 

Think about product and technical support - what do you do with your cheap cards when they crap out, or worse, arrive dead out-of-the-box? Will your eBay vendor take it back? Will the answer your questions when you get strange error messages? Will they send you updated software or drivers to address your problems? Will they even answer the phone when you call with your questions??

 

Anyway, back to your original question, you're not looking for a card to give you the output you want, you're looking for SOFTWARE. Vigil and Video Insight, for example, both use the same cards: Vigil can record in MJPEG or MPEG-4; Video Insight can record to MPEG-4, DivX, or WMV.

 

You're not likely to find many systems that will record directly to MPEG-2, because it's a very inefficient format, and efficiency of compression is an important factor in CCTV. There may be some that will EXPORT to MPEG-2; most that I've seen will export to AVI.

 

One other thing to consider: you're looking at extensions, but you need to think about the actual video format and compression codecs the files are using. *.MPG can mean MPEG-1 (which is 352x240 by spec) or MPEG-2. *.AVI files can be any of a number of formats and codecs - AVI ("audio video interleave") is a wrapper only, defining how the audio and video are stored... it tells you nothing of how the audio and video THEMSELVES are formatted and compressed. Try creating an AVI file with some of the features of a newer version of DivX, for example, and then play it back with an old version of DivX.

 

On that note, a lot of "proprietary" DVR file formats are really common formats but with different extensions, and can often be read by WMP and other programs by simply renaming them. Some DVD authoring programs can import using any available codec on the system - for example, Vigil uses a variation on MJPEG that they call "Aztech", and when you install their player, it also installs a codec that allows their files to playback in any other player (WMP, VLC, etc.). If your DVD software supports this functionality, and your DVR software includes an installable codec, then the format won't matter, because your DVD software becomes "extensible" to support the DVR's video. If NeroVision doesn't do that, it may be time to look at different software.

[FranciscoNET 0]

+1

 

 

$60 is too cheap for a card ad software... Anymore its rare I spend less than $75 on a camera. I've just been burned too many times by cheap unsupported crap. Time is money and if youu have to spend both to go back and fix inferrior gear its not worth it.

 

Keep in mind that ordinary people would NOT be spending $60.00 for these cards that I use, but $120.00 average because I get them in wholesale price. I learned of my current supplier at first in Ebay when I purchased another DVR card that came with a software that recorded to a .dvr file using a proprietary format that no other software could read the video files but their own software with very limited export rights. After this, I emailed the vendor to complain about this problem and to explain to him what I wanted. After this, he got back to me and suggested another DVR card that they sell based on a phillips high quality 9 bits per chip with each channel with its dedicated Phillips chips with heat sinks on each chip. Each card had a total of 8 real time channels. At that point, when I asked the vendor what was the video resolution, he replied back with "640x480" per channel, but he never specified to me that that was only the DISPLAY resolution, not the recording one (recording is at 352x288 max). I initially ordered 4 of them just to test them out, to see the format this thing recorded videos to and how stable the software is and the remote video functionalities and other quality control duties before I settled with this card as my main card for my customers. The Video codec that this card uses is Xvid, it records directly to an *.AVI file under this codec, after installing the Xvid codec (or the K-Lite Codecs Packs) on the target PC, it can immediately playback the videos, NeroVision can parse the video files and create a playable DVD video Disc. The software was so stable that the fact that after I learned that the Display resolution WASN'T the Recording resolution really didn't bothered me that much because after a long, struggled search in finding a DVR card that came with a software that recorded into a video format that I liked, the last think I wanted was to go back and search for another DVR card, specially with the amount of money I had previously wasted in purchasing other DVR cards just to find out that they were no good -- AFTER I got them (that's why vendors should state IN THEIR ADs what format their software uses, and how videos are SAVED initially)

 

I wouldn't call these cards, at least the ones that I am getting, crap. The oldest installation that I have done with these cards is 4 years old, system is running perfectly, customer is very happy and no complains. I have done a truck load of installation during the last 4 years most based on these cards I have described and I have not had the first problems yet. I am happy with the cards I have, but still, its time for me to move to D1 as soon as a SUPPORTED card is made aware to me with price ranges that makes me feel comfortable.

 

Time is money and if youu have to spend both to go back and fix inferrior gear its not worth it.

 

Nope, not a single job where I had to go back to fix things. These cards are giving me 100% success rate with no failure rates 4 years straight up so far (when it comes to the actual DVR cards, but about 5% of jobs in total I had to go back dues to defective hard drives, and since hard drives are mechanical with read/write heads with multiple discs spinning at 7,200 RPM, that is understandable and acceptable for me, something I can't really help -- manufacturer defects, but NONE for the actual DVR card it self).

 

+2 - there's a time-honored phrase that applies especially well to CCTV, and that is, "you get what you pay for." There's much, much more to the equation than just resolution. Total framerates factor in. Processing quality. Hardware vs. software compression - your cheap cards are letting the PC do all the work, that's why they're so cheap; expensive cards don't just convert they video, they do all the compression as well. Think reliability.

It is true that Hardware compression is better than software compression because in hardware compression the actual DVR card is doing all the processing and compression for the video streams, where software compression the CPU of the computer is the one that does all the work, and since my current DVR card is software compression I mitigate this by building high end DVR servers all based on Dual Core CPU's at 3 GHz with 1 GB of RAM using Asus mainboard. All systems with 800W Power Supply Units. So, the actual systems that I build is powerful enough to ensure that it wont have any problems video processing. Finally, I configure a WatchDog program to monitor system integrity with instructions to forcefull reboot the system if there is any failure (because there is no such thing as a extremely elongated up time of weeks to weeks on a Window based system without requiring a restart at one point)

So, as you can see, I am extremely happy with my current configuration, no failure rates, even though all recordings are CIF res. BUT, if I can find an equally affordable card that does D1 recordings with the same stability that my current cards is affording me, I would be an extremely happy person.

 

Think software support. Heck, think driver support - cheap cards will usually work only with a "current" version of Windows; more expensive cards will often work with multiple versions of Windows, with Linux, with other *nix variants like BSD, or even with MacOS. Some will work with your choice of software; cheap cards are often locked to specific software, meaning they make their money selling you the software after getting you with the cheap hardware.

 

The driver of my current card works with Windows 2000 or XP, but does not support Vista or Windows 7. I dont care about Vista or 7, not only is Vista a huge piece of bloatware cr*p, its overly slow, and less stable than XP, Windows 7 is only a mini redo of Windows Vista with a few fixes, tweaks and a graphical User Interface Redo (new Themes, Icons, etc). I wouldn't trust surveillance on Vista or 7, and besides, Windows XP Licenses are cheaper than Vista or 7. So, businesswise with XP I am saving more money and I am dealing with the best operating system you can possible deal with for surveillance operations. And in top of that, I nLite it first to even make it more faster (boot up time), less RAM foot print, and even more stable by removing features and functionalities of XP that is really not needed for a surveillance application.

 

The remote software supports any operating system and its also very stable.

 

As for linux, I havent really checked so I can't comment if its supported under Linux, but I dont really care about that area yet.

 

Anyway, back to your original question, you're not looking for a card to give you the output you want, you're looking for SOFTWARE. Vigil and Video Insight, for example, both use the same cards: Vigil can record in MJPEG or MPEG-4; Video Insight can record to MPEG-4, DivX, or WMV.

 

You're not likely to find many systems that will record directly to MPEG-2, because it's a very inefficient format, and efficiency of compression is an important factor in CCTV. There may be some that will EXPORT to MPEG-2; most that I've seen will export to AVI.

I have dealt with many cards that records in a proprietary format, but that EXPORTS to AVI (just like what you stated), but the AVI exported version is of alot inferior quality than the quality of the *.dvr proprietary file. For example, I purchased a true D1 card for $250.00 that recorded to a *.DVR file in a HIDDEN PARTITION (even worse, make it proprietary and then hide the file away from you! ) This software supported exporting the files to either .dvr that can only be played with ther player.exe program in D1 quality, or to an *.AVI file in ONLY 320x240 QVGA resolution? besides the fact that you had to wait half an hour to get a 5 minute *.AVI exported video clip at this quality. Now tell me, if my objective is to create a D1 quality playable DVD disc, how am I suppose to do that if this software exported to only 320x240 pixels maximum? That was DECEPTION #1, that card is currently collecting dust somewhere in my basement. Deception #2 was alot much worse than the first one. In total I had like about 7 of these kinds of Deceptions with different brands and software before I finally settled with the current cards I have now. Dealers really dont like to tell the other half of their truths when it comes about selling their cards, in most cases you have to find out IN THE HARD WAY that you card(s) records in a crappy format and how the "converter" strips a D1 *.dvr into a CIF *.AVI file when ever you want to get a video file that can be read with other players and video processors. What about exporting to a high quality D1 Divx .AVI file or any other relevant quality standard format? Nope, not one of these 7 different cards that I tried at that time did that.

 

One other thing to consider: you're looking at extensions, but you need to think about the actual video format and compression codecs the files are using. *.MPG can mean MPEG-1 (which is 352x240 by spec) or MPEG-2. *.AVI files can be any of a number of formats and codecs - AVI ("audio video interleave") is a wrapper only, defining how the audio and video are stored... it tells you nothing of how the audio and video THEMSELVES are formatted and compressed. Try creating an AVI file with some of the features of a newer version of DivX, for example, and then play it back with an old version of DivX.

 

On that note, a lot of "proprietary" DVR file formats are really common formats but with different extensions, and can often be read by WMP and other programs by simply renaming them. Some DVD authoring programs can import using any available codec on the system - for example, Vigil uses a variation on MJPEG that they call "Aztech", and when you install their player, it also installs a codec that allows their files to playback in any other player (WMP, VLC, etc.). If your DVD software supports this functionality, and your DVR software includes an installable codec, then the format won't matter, because your DVD software becomes "extensible" to support the DVR's video. If NeroVision doesn't do that, it may be time to look at different software.

Every single proprietary video formats that I have dealt with were simply not playable by changing its file extension. For example, on the first DVR card (Deception #1) that I was dealing with, I had a video file called 02-30-2006_15-45_CH5.dvr so its was a video file that ended with *.dvr I changed the file extension to .avi and nope didn't worked, then changed it to .mpg same results, tried a whole bunch of other video extensions and nope didn't worked. The ONLY way it would work is if you played it back with a "player.exe" program file that was included with the card. When it was time to create a playable DVD Video Disc this didn't help me at all. So, you may be saying "Why not connect the DVR to a VCR/DVD Recorder via an S-Video cable TV out?" Well you couldn't not even do that, well technically speaking YES, you could do that, but their proprietary player.exe program didn't even support MAXIMIZING THE DAMN VIDEO so you could do that, it seems that the software developer of who ever wrote that retarded program took it upon themselves to make sure that users weren't capable of creating a playable DVD video disc one way, or the other by creating all these crippling limitations. So, these .dvr video files took like 3/4 of the screen and showed some controls in the left panel, I would, no one, would want to record a video like that to a VCR via external S-Video connection because it would look so unprofessional without being able to maximize the video. And keep in mind that their software (player.exe) was the ONLY capable software of opening their video files and their software had NO MAXIMIZE CAPABILITIES. All the other 7 DVR cards were exactly like this when it came to playing back their videos files. Then to make things worse, the true D1 DVR card can *ONLY* work with 1 software (the enclosed software), meaning that if you are not happy with the software, you are screwed and stuck with it because you can't simply browse the internet and install another DVR software, NOPE dont even try it, I had spent countless hours searching for compatible drivers and software to make these D1 cards work with a better software, but it seems that manufacturers seals up their DVR cards to ONLY work with their particular combination of Driver and Software. For me, this looks dishonest in the software developers parts, they CANT just assume that EVERY ONE will be happy with their *.dvr/*.BIM/*.DAT exclusive-formats-to-them model of doing things!

 

I am one of those persons you will find that dislikes being LIMITED BY SOFTWARE. Getting a great HARDWARE but being LIMITED by SOFTWARE is simply something that I dont tolerate.

 

The software that I am currently dealing with have so many features that basically allows me to configure the software in almost every area, and configuration tweaks that are no available in the GRAPHICAL USER INTERFACE part of the software, they are available in a configuration file that I can edit manually to perform virtually any type of change I want (such as compression bit rate, frames per second 1 through 30 individually per channel and alot more)

 

If your DVD software supports this functionality, and your DVR software includes an installable codec, then the format won't matter, because your DVD software becomes "extensible" to support the DVR's video. If NeroVision doesn't do that, it may be time to look at different software.

NeroVision can parse video files that the system can understand, so if a particular video can be opened successfully with Windows Media Player, it so can be parsed successfully under NeroVision.

 

So, My Requirements is that this Future full D1 DVR software that *HOPEFULLY* I will get the chance to use (if I ever find it) records its video directly to a file ending with the .AVI file extension AND if it uses some weird codec that not even K-Lite Codec Packs can help to make it playable, to include a special codec for the system to understand and register as a valid windows codec for the particular DVR server in such as way that when you doubleclick on the .AVI file under Windows Explorer and Windows Media Player pops up, that it plays the video, because if Windows Media Player can play the video, I am 100% sure that NeroVideo will understand it too, and other software on current system.

 

So, I need a LIST of DVR cards that I can purchase that meets this requirements, I do not want to purchase any further DVR cards just to have them collect dust any more, I dont want to waste any more money, so I need help and good pointers in looking for that right D1 DVR card that is affordable. If there a distributor/manufacturer here that carries what I am looking for?

 

Thanks.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Guest

[rory 0]

Here is what I am looking for

 

* Card should record at full D1 resolution.

* software should record in a file extension ending in *.avi or *.mpg to the hard drive (without having to deal with converting videos in order to get that resulting video format).

 

GeoVision Does, all of their cards work with the same software and allow D1 recording (eg. NTSC 720x480). The hardware compression card is supposed to be the better quality, I cannot confirm that.

 

Most well known DVR cards will do D1 these days. In fact it's been many years since I have seen one that does not, other than cheap stand alone DVRs or the ones on NewEgg.

 

Hardware compression cards ARE more expensive, but they do not equal D1, they just typically equal better quality, less PC resources used, and more cards to one system. Remember that you are mostly paying for the software, good software costs money, at least in this industry.

[rory 0]

your that guy. selling old cif systems. it is not good to sell systems that are already out of date. you will see alot of guys on here loosing out on install contracts and thats because they will not move on quality. sometime its best to walk away from a bad customer.

 

However, tomorrow there maybe something better and cheaper then the hybrid system you sold them. Also, the motherboards are pretty much discontinued every week, so already the DVR is outdated then As for hybrid, If a person knows they are going to add in an IP camera, then sure, but why buy something you might never use? Its like installing software on a computer that is never used, but comes up on startup. Sure it is okay if one has the money, but that depends on the area one lives in, but even that from what I have seen lately, the rich people dont want to spend either. Dont get me wrong, I would love to sell megapixel cameras and nothing else .. but just cant stay in business like that. But thats just me ... dont mind me

 

We have clients down here, some of the biggest businesses or wealthiest in the nation, and you can show them 2 cameras, a high quality image and one with a poor CMOS image, if the CMOS type is cheaper, they buy that right away - they just dont want to spend on cameras, even after it has helped them catch hundreds of inhouse thefts. They say, its good enough, its great, I can catch the person stealing, I know who that is, even though the image might totally suck. One told me the other day, CCTV is just not a priority to him, it is something that comes in handy, but its not a necessity to run his business and therefore he will spend less on that then other things.

 

So you see there are many differences between where one installer might live and the other. Francesco's only market might be the Ghetto or low income, much like down here, while you might primarily be dealing with people that have money or at least a regular income. Sometimes to stay in business and put food on the table, you have to do what it takes - but i would emphasize tell the people the difference, let them know they are buying a lesser product if they choose that one; many do not do that.

 

That said, a $60 DVR Card, I just dont see how that is worth it, may as well just sell them a cheap 4 channel stand alone and walk away, less headaches.

 

I think, since we are in an Industry that is not quite as popular as say selling Water or Food, or Plumbing ... any customer that has money to spend is a good customer

[bpzle 0]

That said, a $60 DVR Card, I just dont see how that is worth it, may as well just sell them a cheap 4 channel stand alone and walk away, less headaches.

 

+1

 

 

Dual Core CPU's at 3 GHz with 1 GB of RAM using Asus mainboard. All systems with 800W Power Supply Units.

 

I just can't fathom spending $60 on a card when you have these specs for a PC... Hell, the power supply alone would be worth more...

[Soundy 1]

That said, a $60 DVR Card, I just dont see how that is worth it, may as well just sell them a cheap 4 channel stand alone and walk away, less headaches.

 

+1

 

 

Dual Core CPU's at 3 GHz with 1 GB of RAM using Asus mainboard. All systems with 800W Power Supply Units.

 

I just can't fathom spending $60 on a card when you have these specs for a PC... Hell, the power supply alone would be worth more...

 

QFMFT. Hell, let's just build a freakin' Ferrari and then put a $200 Clarion radio in it. Or more the point, put a Chevy Sprint three-banger in it, and say it's because people want a more fuel-efficient Ferrari. Sure you can do it, and some people will probably buy it, because they believe the hype, but what's the point?? Just sell them the Sprint in the first place, and walk away - less headaches.

[FranciscoNET 0]

That said, a $60 DVR Card, I just dont see how that is worth it, may as well just sell them a cheap 4 channel stand alone and walk away, less headaches.

 

+1

 

 

Dual Core CPU's at 3 GHz with 1 GB of RAM using Asus mainboard. All systems with 800W Power Supply Units.

 

I just can't fathom spending $60 on a card when you have these specs for a PC... Hell, the power supply alone would be worth more...

 

QFMFT. Hell, let's just build a freakin' Ferrari and then put a $200 Clarion radio in it. Or more the point, put a Chevy Sprint three-banger in it, and say it's because people want a more fuel-efficient Ferrari. Sure you can do it, and some people will probably buy it, because they believe the hype, but what's the point?? Just sell them the Sprint in the first place, and walk away - less headaches.

 

Just because my current DVR card are worth $120.00 (but I get them for about $60.00 because I pay wholesale) does not mean that I have to build a cheap computer system for my customers. Sure I see others just giving away cheap pentium III's @450MHz dell systems with their cheap $9.00 PICO piece of cr@p cards they get off china, but keep in mind that these servers are supposed to stay on for 24/7 and these cheap old outdated computer systems arent meant for that kind of overtaxed jobs. You would be lucky if any of these Pentium III's systems last for anything longer than 3 months.

 

I contruct with quality parts because I want my DVR servers to stay functional for as long as it possibly can. My vision is that my DVR servers lasts more than 5 years working straight up with no problems.

 

I purchase everything that have to do with computers and cameras in WHOLESALE prices and for computer parts I rely on a one of world's mayor distributor located in California. Almost anything you can get at Tigerdirect for $80.00 I can probably get that exact same item for about $40 new, not refurbished at my supplier. So an Asus mainboard $40, the Dual core CPU $55, 1GB of RAM $22, 500GB SATA Hard drive $45, DVD Burner $15, Case 10 if appearance doesnt matter, or $35 for a server grade case (same case you see being sold on Tigerdirect or around $60 to $80), and alot more. With these prices you come to understand why I just decide to build super high quality fast servers for all of my customer, before if you add the math, the costs of building the DVR PC will almost equate to a person purchasing a used old system. One of the most expensive component here is the Power Supply Unit and that's because I go with either 650W to 800W (depending) --> I just dont want to see another Power Supply Unit failure which can be common with those cheap 350W PSU's that comes with most of these cases.

 

For cameras, I dont go cheap, I get them at $75.00 each SuperHAD 24Leds IR, vandal proof 0.1 Lux Color.

 

Here is an image of the DVR card that I am currently using (the ones that I am looking for faze out in favor of D1 cards):

As you can see, these cards were built to last, with heat sinks on each chip. THIS is the card that I referred to on one of my previous posts that has been up and running flawlessly for the past 4 years being the oldest installation that I have done based on THIS card. The software it came with, I LOVE it, it has more than 30 user adjustable functions/settings (most of them in configuration files that I can edit my self) buts it a shame that this card records at CIF max res.

and to tell you the truth, this card has given me such a great satisfaction that, even after I find my D1 card that I like I will still plan to continue using these cards ONLY for lower applications such as installing a surveillance camera on a "bedroom" sized small office where CIF would be more than adequate quality to obtain a positive facial identification of a subject, etc. So I dont actually plan to abandon this card but to work in conjunction with these and the D1 cards.

 

And given the fact that all of my customers have high end DVR's, later on I can give some of them a call to offer them to upgrade to the D1 cards for some of my customers where I really feel that they would benefit with the D1 recording quality more, after I get the good D1 card I have been searching for the longest, which of course translates more future business for me.

 

So, as you can see, everything that I do is with high grade materials meant to last

 

Oh, by the way, for those of you people that are finding this card to be priced too low, keep in mind that this card has been out in the market maybe for more than 4 years, so dont expect this card to be priced the same as it was 4 yo 5 years ago. Its like an old GeoVision DVR card (Maybe the GV-250) you can get today at $150.00 that probably has been out for a few years versus the latest model-of-the-year they have now priced at like $1,200

[trocandio 0]

Interesting, the part about the software, can you tell me from where i can download that software?

[rory 0]

For cameras, I dont go cheap, I get them at $75.00 each SuperHAD 24Leds IR, vandal proof 0.1 Lux Color.

Just to clarify something, a $75 camera, especially an IR camera, IS a cheap [budget] camera.

[Soundy 1]

For cameras, I dont go cheap, I get them at $75.00 each SuperHAD 24Leds IR, vandal proof 0.1 Lux Color.

Just to clarify something, a $75 camera, especially an IR camera, IS a cheap [budget] camera.

+1

 

0.1 lux color is a pretty mediocre spec, too. That's why you have IR - to compensate for poor low-light performance. IR in these type of cameras is more kludge than solution.

[FranciscoNET 0]

Interesting, the part about the software, can you tell me from where i can download that software?

 

This software has "QX-DVR" as its name, doing a google search for "QX DVR" didn't reveal to me who developed this software. The software it self has no references to any company names, and the user manual doesn't say anything about any company name. The only version that I deal with is the one that my distributor hands over to me, and it has been the same exact version all this time. Well, the software has been stable since day 1, no bugs that I have found, it does it job -- record videos, can't complain, (except for the CIF recording res. part).

 

So, it looks like my particular software is not being worked on any more and/or the company who developed it may have done out of business, etc.....

 

So I cannot tell you where you can download this software simply because there is no website active today that talks about this software and hosts it. Also, this software would only work on the cards I have here, will not work on any other DVR cards, so there would not be a point for you to download this software if you dont have the accompanying DVR card for it to work.

[FranciscoNET 0]

Ok, I think that we are slowly moving off topic of my original post here. From what I am looking for -- to -- paying too much attention to the CIF-Recording software I am using with my actual DVR cards and slowly starting to forget what I came here in the first place - to look for a new full D1 DVR cards that matches my requirements. The software that I am using now with my DVR cards is not that important and the basis of my concentration of me being here, I dont want to get into a lenghly discussion and devote a great deal of time in describing every details of my current software because that's not what I would like to cover in this thread.

 

Lets get fully back to original topic and I need people to provide me with a LIST of DVR cards with Name of the Software I can use and price expectations.

 

So far, I have been recommended GeoVision here, and GeoVision, specially the GV-250 might be a good choice for me since I was told that GeoVision records into an *.AVI format and a codec installed on the system makes that .avi file work with any video related software on that system, which SHOULD mean that I can just right click on that .avi file and insert it into one of my NeroVision DVD Video Creator projects and should be able to burn my DVD Video Playable Disc with no problems.

 

So, I need a list of DVR cards I can purchase that records directly to .AVI, and if the codec is somewhat proprietary it BETTER has a codec that can be installed on the system so other video processing software can DIRECTLY WORK with the .avi video files. I would NOT accept DVR cards with software using a proprietary enough format that disqualifies compatibility with other video processing software. A good hint here is, if Windows Media PLayer can directly open and playback the video files with no errors, then chances are that your software is what I am looking for.

 

* It MUST record in FULL D1 Resolution, since that's the whole point of me searching, otherwise I would stay with my current cards if D1 weren't that important.

 

So, a LIST of DVR cards that I can see, compare and contrast,

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

[mateck8888 0]

all this talk about a $60.00 DVR card is making me want to pick up a Yugo

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Go_Yugo.jpg

[tomcctv 190]

Ok, I think that we are slowly moving off topic of my original post here. From what I am looking for -- to -- paying too much attention to the CIF-Recording software I am using with my actual DVR cards and slowly starting to forget what I came here in the first place - to look for a new full D1 DVR cards that matches my requirements. The software that I am using now with my DVR cards is not that important and the basis of my concentration of me being here, I dont want to get into a lenghly discussion and devote a great deal of time in describing every details of my current software because that's not what I would like to cover in this thread.

 

Lets get fully back to original topic and I need people to provide me with a LIST of DVR cards with Name of the Software I can use and price expectations.

 

So far, I have been recommended GeoVision here, and GeoVision, specially the GV-250 might be a good choice for me since I was told that GeoVision records into an *.AVI format and a codec installed on the system makes that .avi file work with any video related software on that system, which SHOULD mean that I can just right click on that .avi file and insert it into one of my NeroVision DVD Video Creator projects and should be able to burn my DVD Video Playable Disc with no problems.

 

So, I need a list of DVR cards I can purchase that records directly to .AVI, and if the codec is somewhat proprietary it BETTER has a codec that can be installed on the system so other video processing software can DIRECTLY WORK with the .avi video files. I would NOT accept DVR cards with software using a proprietary enough format that disqualifies compatibility with other video processing software. A good hint here is, if Windows Media PLayer can directly open and playback the video files with no errors, then chances are that your software is what I am looking for.

 

* It MUST record in FULL D1 Resolution, since that's the whole point of me searching, otherwise I would stay with my current cards if D1 weren't that important.

 

So, a LIST of DVR cards that I can see, compare and contrast,

Thanks!

 

 

like i said in my first post for $60 or $120. you are not going to get a good card. plus going from the cards you use to something like d1 recording you are going to have to spend alot more on building your pc. then you will have to spend more on cameras than your $75. no point recording d1 with low tvl cameras. what would you call a good price for a card. ???

[rory 0]

In regards to Geovision, the 600 has replaced the 250 now, though you might still be able to get some 250's from dealers with overstock and at low prices, but just make sure its not a clone.

[FranciscoNET 0]

Ok, I think that we are slowly moving off topic of my original post here. From what I am looking for -- to -- paying too much attention to the CIF-Recording software I am using with my actual DVR cards and slowly starting to forget what I came here in the first place - to look for a new full D1 DVR cards that matches my requirements. The software that I am using now with my DVR cards is not that important and the basis of my concentration of me being here, I dont want to get into a lenghly discussion and devote a great deal of time in describing every details of my current software because that's not what I would like to cover in this thread.

 

Lets get fully back to original topic and I need people to provide me with a LIST of DVR cards with Name of the Software I can use and price expectations.

 

So far, I have been recommended GeoVision here, and GeoVision, specially the GV-250 might be a good choice for me since I was told that GeoVision records into an *.AVI format and a codec installed on the system makes that .avi file work with any video related software on that system, which SHOULD mean that I can just right click on that .avi file and insert it into one of my NeroVision DVD Video Creator projects and should be able to burn my DVD Video Playable Disc with no problems.

 

So, I need a list of DVR cards I can purchase that records directly to .AVI, and if the codec is somewhat proprietary it BETTER has a codec that can be installed on the system so other video processing software can DIRECTLY WORK with the .avi video files. I would NOT accept DVR cards with software using a proprietary enough format that disqualifies compatibility with other video processing software. A good hint here is, if Windows Media PLayer can directly open and playback the video files with no errors, then chances are that your software is what I am looking for.

 

* It MUST record in FULL D1 Resolution, since that's the whole point of me searching, otherwise I would stay with my current cards if D1 weren't that important.

 

So, a LIST of DVR cards that I can see, compare and contrast,

Thanks!

 

 

like i said in my first post for $60 or $120. you are not going to get a good card. plus going from the cards you use to something like d1 recording you are going to have to spend alot more on building your pc. then you will have to spend more on cameras than your $75. no point recording d1 with low tvl cameras. what would you call a good price for a card. ???

 

And who said that my cameras, because they costs $75 in WHOLESALE PRICE is low TVL?? These cameras that I get has 540 TVL, 24 IR Leds, CCD Sensor (NO, they are NOT CMOS, I NEVER deal with CMOS sensors), 90 Degree wide angle view, and at night they look perfectly cinematic, but with white pixelations like on cheap infrared cameras.

Here is an image of these cameras:

 

I am pretty sure many of you know about these cameras as most mayor distributors of these cameras have them in stock and know how good and sharp the images can end up being if you know what you are getting and can understand the specifications.

 

like i said in my first post for $60 or $120. you are not going to get a good card. plus going from the cards you use to something like d1 recording you are going to have to spend alot more on building your pc. then you will have to spend more on cameras than your $75. no point recording d1 with low tvl cameras. what would you call a good price for a card. ???

I do not think that I have to spend a fortune to be able to record in D1 resolutions, its not like D1 is the highest possible quality that any one can get for a CCTV applications, now we have Megapixel cameras and NVR's that are meant to "replace" D1 making D1 look like nothing in comparison to Megapixels systems. Software developers that still charges a fortune for their D1 cards are taking advantage of people who thinks that D1 is the highest possible ceiling they can go, those who are yet not aware of the newer megapixel based technologies and megapixels IP cameras.

 

The actual D1 PCI/PCI-Express DVR card doesn't costs that much to manufacturer, I am pretty sure there HAS to be generic D1 cards out there that can work with ANY DVR software, and these are the cards that I am more interested in, since I can just load up any software I want and any software will pickup the images being received by these generic D1 cards. I am pretty sure that there is a way that one can obtain a D1 card at less than $200 and still be a legit card, thanks to OpenSource software. FREE (GNU) software doesn't necessarily have to mean of lower quality, as it is evident with OpenOffice.org that competes with Microsoft Office, every one that has worked with OpenOffice know how stable and of better quality OpenOffice is (whic his 100% free and open source) compared to the paid-for counterpart of Microsoft Office. We have the GIMP, that is a freeware alternative to Adobe Photoshop, and we even have an entire operating system, the Linux variants which is more stable than the counterparts of MS Windows X (Where 'X' = any version of Windows that has been in existence). So, if our experience tells us that OpenSource software can be MUCH better and more stable than the closed source paid for software, then all what we need is an Open Source DVR software that can work with generic DVR cards at D1, and if there isn't (which I really doubt) such projects yet for a D1 specifications, I am pretty sure that its only a matter of time before we start seeing Open Source DVR Software that can do D1 perfectly well and better than the other $2,xxx counterparts rip offs.

 

There is already an OpenSource DVR software, its called ZoneMinder, it works for Linux, but its CIF based (since last I heard from them). So, its only matter of time before any of the millions of enthusiastic programmers who really care for the betterment of society rather than getting rich off one individual start developing an open source project for D1 specifications that can be compatible with lots of DVR boards.

 

*** So, the bottom line is that PRICE itself does not have any weight in telling me or any one else how good a product is and if PRICE alone is the sole basis in you determining how good a product is (Evidence: all the good OpenSource software in existence today outperforming paid-for software), then you will do lots of money spending, cutting into and interfering with your profits.