25+ 2megapixel camera monitoring/recording! Please help.

[kt00 0]

Some customer wants to record and monitor approx 25-26 2megapixel (h.264) cameras but i just cant esteem the parameters of the pc that can handle this...

 

Ok, lets say we need a dual or quad core xeon (well another question is that can the software support more than one core? Hell knows...) and maybe i can reduce the fps to 12 or to 6 in the worst scenario... but then again... is there any server pc config that can handle 25piece of 2mpixel h.264 stream? And what video card can render this?

 

Another thing is the switch. Thats ok that it should have a gigabit port and the maximum broadband the cameras will take is 'only' 60-70mbit (max. 2-3mbit/cam)... but im not sure that every cheap gigabit switch is able to manage the constant traffic of the 26 2mpixel cameras...

 

Thank You very much in advance for your help/hint!

 

Best regards.

[akelley 0]

Without further details about your specific requirements, you should look at Mobotix cameras - they take the whole bandwidth and recording to a server out of the equation as the cameras can record directly on the camera (SD card) or can even record to a NAS. If that model doesn't meet your requirements, you'll need to look more specifically at what cameras will be at what MP and what fp will be acceptable. You'll also have to know if the network is dedicated to the security system traffic, or if other traffic will be on the same network (such as VoIP,etc.) - then you'll need to estimate network saturation on a full load. You may want to consider setting up multiple servers if all 25 cameras are streaming at MP+ 15fps or more. You'll also want to take into consideration number of clients accessing the realtime stream as well.

[thewireguys 3]

Look at Exacq you can build your own system or pick one if the turn key setups they have.

 

http://www.exacq.com/products/ipservers.html

 

 

You can also use Intransa..... they build servers specificity for NVR software and they will install the software of your choice...

 

http://www.intransa.com/

[Harrar 0]

Look at the DLink DES-1228P. It's a 24 port 10/100 PoE smart switch with 4 Gigabit ports for a good price. Used this at several locations running with 16 to 20 Mobotix cameras. Haven't had a hiccup with it in almost a year now.

[PavelP 0]

1) Exacq 4U Rackmount IP Server and 8 WD RE4 HDD

http://www.exacq.com/products/4u_ip_rackmountserver.html

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=732

2) Only CISCO! 2960-24PC-L have 24 Ethernet 10/100 PoE ports and 2 dual-purpose Gigabit Ethernet ports.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps6406/prod_models_comparison.html

 

The best decision! But price...

[cglaeser 0]

Without further details about your specific requirements, you should look at Mobotix cameras - they take the whole bandwidth and recording to a server out of the equation as the cameras can record directly on the camera (SD card) or can even record to a NAS.

 

I've done this with Axis and Panasonic. Although Mobotix/Axis/Panasonic can upload to a NAS just fine, there are many important features missing from this non-NVR approach. I agree with the suggestions to go with exacqVision. You can either purchase an exacq system, or license the software and build your own.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

Mobotix has a NVR client that works by using NAS and SD as the storage locations with a GUI. Very powerful product and software that is different then anything else on the market.

 

Have you selected cameras? Why are all of them 2MP?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Guest

[cglaeser 0]

Mobotix has a NVR client that works by using NAS and SD

 

Thanks, that's good to know.

 

Best,

Christopher

[Voipmodo 0]

And the best part of Mobotix is there is no cost or license fee for the software or any updates.

[hardwired 0]

A lot of NVR software is processor limited, but Exacq is really only limited by bandwidth / speed throughput to the storage location, and network bandwidth in from the cameras, and out to the clients.

 

My personal choice for storage systems has been Direct-Attached SAS RAID6 Arrays, with the expansion bay options, you can have up to 128 drives per controller (I use the Areca 1680IX

 

Both Exacq and Milestone have bandwidth/storage calculators on their sites, and tech support available by phone that is pretty good.

 

Cisco would certainly be the first choice for switches, but I've used models by D-link and Netgear successfully, too.

 

Are all 25+ cams within 100 Meters, going to go to a single switch, or will you use several switches, trunking to a central switch?

 

If you are using multiple switches, the requirements on the edge switches are lessened, and you may only need a high-end gigabit switch at the core/headend location, and not PoE there, so something like a smaller gigabit HP Procurve switch might fit the need.

[kt00 0]

Thank You very much People, You helped a lot.

 

The cameras and the software are from axview, and lets say 12 fps/cam is enough. We told the customer that maybe its enough to install 2mpixel cameras at the most crucial places, but he wants them at every location...

At some point we should step over the 100m eth segment limit, maybe will using eth extenders.

[cglaeser 0]

We told the customer that maybe its enough to install 2mpixel cameras at the most crucial places, but he wants them at every location...

 

Make sure there is sufficient light. Higher resolution means more pixels which means smaller pixels for same sensor size, and smaller pixels means less light collection, everything else being equal. In other words, less resolution *can* outperform more resolution in some situations. Just depends on the requirements. Sometimes less is more.

 

Best,

Christopher

[hardwired 0]

You also need to be careful about NVR compatibility with your cameras. Axview does not show on the supported cameras list for Exacq or Milestone.. And Milestone has wider camera support than pretty much any other manufacturer.

 

Even with well known brands, some surprises can sneak up, I'd be very leery of doing a job with the product you described, especially one of that size.

 

It MIGHT work with generic drivers from Milestone or others... But do you really want to be the Guinea pig for it?

 

Poking around their website didn't improve my confidence, either...... Be careful!

[robert 0]

Some customer wants to record and monitor approx 25-26 2megapixel (h.264) cameras but i just cant esteem the parameters of the pc that can handle this...

 

is there any server pc config that can handle 25piece of 2mpixel h.264 stream? And what video card can render this?

 

I doubt there is any cpu on the market which can handle you requirements. To display live view even 4 H.264 2mpix cameras you need Quad core cpu. If you will be displaying live just 4 or 9 cameras, then you should be OK with Core i7. HDD should be able to handle, as H.264 is 7-9 times smaller than MJPEG.

[thewireguys 3]

Some customer wants to record and monitor approx 25-26 2megapixel (h.264) cameras but i just cant esteem the parameters of the pc that can handle this...

 

is there any server pc config that can handle 25piece of 2mpixel h.264 stream? And what video card can render this?

 

I doubt there is any cpu on the market which can handle you requirements. To display live view even 4 H.264 2mpix cameras you need Quad core cpu. If you will be displaying live just 4 or 9 cameras, then you should be OK with Core i7. HDD should be able to handle, as H.264 is 7-9 times smaller than MJPEG.

 

Robert I must disagree, I have Atom based PCs that decode multi-megapixel cameras without a problem. It all depends on the NVR software you are using.

Edited March 13, 2010 by Guest

[robert 0]

Some customer wants to record and monitor approx 25-26 2megapixel (h.264) cameras but i just cant esteem the parameters of the pc that can handle this...

 

is there any server pc config that can handle 25piece of 2mpixel h.264 stream? And what video card can render this?

 

I doubt there is any cpu on the market which can handle you requirements. To display live view even 4 H.264 2mpix cameras you need Quad core cpu. If you will be displaying live just 4 or 9 cameras, then you should be OK with Core i7. HDD should be able to handle, as H.264 is 7-9 times smaller than MJPEG.

 

I have Atom based PCs that decodes multi-megapixel cameras with out a problem. It all depends on the NVR software you are using.

 

I would like to see how Atom would handle live view of 2mpix H264 camera Which NVR software?

[40th Floor 0]

I can't say about MP, but here's an Atom N270 (single core w/HT) at 640x480 at a smoooooth 25 FPS Yes, this is h.264, an Axis M1031w. It's quit bad at low light noise so very poor compression (mpeg4/2 does a bit better in this location, and much less CPU still). The p-frames are almost the same size as the I-frame; at 320x240 it does much better (much smaller p-frames) at this location.

 

 

That's CastleKeeper2. Below is a link to the same shot (a few days later) with more light. The exposure gain in the above pic was set to Max. +30 dB). The CPU use is much less (10-15%), and the bitrate more reasonable (about 0.67 Mbps). The same machine, only a Classic XP theme is the difference.

 

http://castlekeeper.40th.com/gfx2/tmp/asus1000ha_m1031w_h264.jpg

 

To show that it can do h264 (640x480@25 pretty easily), not that you'd want to use an Atom to decode. For recording, though, an Atom like the 330 (which I use to record), is perfectly fine since it uses practically no CPU at all, not even when recording six full-rate streams.

 

P.S. "CPU %" is based on having 2 cores, so seeing "15%" is 15 over both. If you consider it running on a single core (which any one decode does in CK's case) then it's more like 30%. Other cores can run other cameras (or the UI, etc.). The point being, as long as it finishes the job (decoding each frame) on time, it works.

 

To put it in perspective, here's the same on a Q8200 (cheapest quad Intel used to make), different location. The TaskMgr blipped every now and then.

 

http://castlekeeper.40th.com/gfx2/tmp/Q8200_233_h264.jpg

 

It also shows that the Axis M10* line is not focused for outdoor use; the older 207s could be focused.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

 

I would like to see how Atom would handle live view of 2mpix H264 camera Which NVR software?

 

 

ExacqVision

 

I have a Atom 330 server with 2 1.3MP Areconts (h.264)and 1 AV8185 Arecont(4 2MP h.264 streams) works great.. Look at theExacqvisions EL box, 16 analog cameras and up to 24MP cameras on a Atom based system. Arecont cameras use less processing power with h.264 then MJPEG. The Atom works great for low cost low camera count MP setups if you upgrade to a dual core you could do up to 64 IP cameras on one box.

[robert 0]

 

I would like to see how Atom would handle live view of 2mpix H264 camera Which NVR software?

 

 

ExacqVision

 

I have a Atom 330 server with 2 1.3MP Areconts (h.264)and 1 AV8185 Arecont(4 2MP h.264 streams) works great.. Look at theExacqvisions EL box, 16 analog cameras and up to 24MP cameras on a Atom based system. Arecont cameras use less processing power with h.264 then MJPEG. The Atom works great for low cost low camera count MP setups if you upgrade to a dual core you could do up to 64 IP cameras on one box.

 

Sounds unreal Then I should scrap my loved Luxriot I tried Exacq once, but it was complicated to install and support wasnt great, so never tried again.

[cglaeser 0]

I tried Exacq once, but it was complicated to install

 

I installed the previous major release and upgraded to the current major release. Both the install and upgrade on Windows was both easy and quick.

 

Best,

Christopher

[robert 0]

I tried Exacq once, but it was complicated to install

 

I installed the previous major release and upgraded to the current major release. Both the install and upgrade on Windows was both easy and quick.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

It was some 2 years ago. Installation was kind of wierd and I couldnt get my head around it, error messages kept popping up. Emailed support but they werent very helpful(probably because I wasnt their customer, just potential customer).

 

Just tried downloading, cant, asking for password. Seems that they dont have trial?

[cglaeser 0]

Seems that they dont have trial?

 

Yes, they have a free trial that is limited to one camera at a time. I got my free trial from thewireguys on this forum, and later placed an order with same.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

ExacqVision

 

I have a Atom 330 server with 2 1.3MP Areconts (h.264)and 1 AV8185 Arecont(4 2MP h.264 streams) works great.. Look at theExacqvisions EL box, 16 analog cameras and up to 24MP cameras on a Atom based system. Arecont cameras use less processing power with h.264 then MJPEG. The Atom works great for low cost low camera count MP setups if you upgrade to a dual core you could do up to 64 IP cameras on one box.

Not for live video though right? If so, can you post some screen shots and system build specs?

thanks

[rory 0]

 

I would like to see how Atom would handle live view of 2mpix H264 camera Which NVR software?

IMO I dont see any good reason to use an Atom in anything but a netbook. The Atom is like a celeron, really not designed to do anything much at all, replaced the celeron in netbooks for less power consumption and less heat. Can just use a core 2 or pentium dual core and its much faster then the atom, day and night, still power consumption is very low. MP cameras are not exactly cheap so cant see it being a price point? But I think he was only doing the Atom system as a test anyway, not for production. Exaqt is doing it but with linux on an SSD, and it seems to only be a server, no live video like we are used to in the CCTV industry.

[hardwired 0]

I'll have to get back with the specs, but I have three Arecont 5MP cams running at 6FPS on a Via Epia board, 1.0GHz, 1 GB ram, and it doesn't really break a sweat, including live viewing. I am looking at even smaller embedded products to run it on for really small systems.

 

I have a quote out right now with 96+ cameras, over half 1.3MP or higher, 10 viewing stations, with Exacq, on a single Xeon server. Their tech support did not even recommend dual processors, just Gigabit Ethernet and a very fast storage system.

 

However they designed it, they got it figured pretty well, the only bottleneck seems to be throughput on the Ethernet and storage array.

 

Incidentally, they are one of the few companies that REALLY designed their own capture cards, and have a lot of experience at high speed data capture. Look at http://exacqdaq.com/products.html , their original company that they grew their DVR/NVR line out of.