Help with DVR/Camera Selection

[jbaird 0]

Hello all,

 

I am trying to plan out a DVR/CCTV system for a liquor store. Very to new the CCTV market, so I would really appreciate any advice you may be able to give me. I think I have decided to stay away from the Swann/Q-See systems due to their cheap components, quality and non-existent support. I want to go with a 8-channel solution, possibly starting out with 4-6 cameras. The cameras will probably record 24 hours a day, and will need to record in both daytime and night-time. I want to try to stick to $1500-2000 USD.. hopefully this will be possible.

 

I have started looking at IC-Realtime's MAX8 DVR. Can someone offer some opinions on this unit as it compares to the Swann/Q-See cheaper models? I am also trying to find some up-to-date pricing for the MAX8. How is IC-Realtime's support? Is this a reliable product? Important features to me would be live viewing over the Internet/phone, quality video recording, ease of backup/restore, HD expansion, RAID, etc. Another model that I am looking at is the Intellicam G4-HD 8 Channel. It seems like both of these units can only do D1 on 1 out of the 8 channels.. I'm having a hard time deciding if that is going to be a problem for me or not, since I haven't really seen D1 vs CIF in action, or images of the two.

 

Next, on to the cameras. I really have NO idea what cameras I need. I visually like the looks of the dome cameras, and I believe you can get these with IR so they will work in the night? Can someone suggest some cameras and an estimated cost for them? I would like a decent FOV on the cameras. At a minimum, I believe I should be looking at cameras with Vari-Focal lenses.

 

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

For cameras, take a look at the CNB "Mona Lisa" series of day/night domes. They work great in low light without the need of cheesy workarounds like IR. Excellent cameras for the price.

[jbaird 0]

Hi Soundy,

 

What is your preferred vendor for these cameras? I took a look at this thread:

 

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20048&start=15

 

So, are you saying that I don't need IR domes even for night-time indoor images (no lights will be on)? Are these domes Vari-focal?

 

Thanks,

 

Josh

[Soundy 1]

It will depend on what light, if any, there is inside, but these cameras work great with very little light. And if there's NO light, well, there won't be anything to look at anyway - anyone breaking in will at least be packing a flashlight (unless they're wearing military-type night-vision goggles). If there's enough light for someone to stumble around, there's enough to get a good picture.

 

They are available with varifocal lenses, yes... the ones we use have 2.8-10mm (if memory serves).

 

As for vendor, I couldn't tell you offhand who ours is... you can probably find a local one via their website (www.cnbtec.com)

[jbaird 0]

Ok, so it looks like there are two models:

 

VBM-24VF - Day/Night ICR

VBM-24VD

 

The 24VF should be used in situations where there is both day and night. What is ICR?. I should use the 24VD in situations where there is always light -- something like monitoring the till's in a store maybe?

 

I also need an outdoor dome that will be used to monitor a drive-thru. Do you have any suggestions for this?

 

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

Ok, so it looks like there are two models:

 

VBM-24VF - Day/Night ICR

VBM-24VD

 

The 24VF should be used in situations where there is both day and night. What is ICR?.

 

Removable IR Cut filter - basically in day mode, the filter is in place to block infrared light for more accurate color; below the designated light level, the camera switches to black-and-white and the filter moves out of the way. This type is also know as a "true day/night camera".

 

I should use the 24VD in situations where there is always light -- something like monitoring the till's in a store maybe?

 

Sure... or if there's not a substantial price difference, just go with all 24VFs.

 

I also need an outdoor dome that will be used to monitor a drive-thru. Do you have any suggestions for this?

 

How about more of the same? The CNBs are weatherproof and work great outside as well. We recently put three of them on a restaurant's uncovered patio - the only light here is from a couple of street lights 100+ feet away, and a little filtering through the shutters on the dining room windows:

 

[jbaird 0]

Ok, sounds great. Thanks for the help! Now I just need to figure out what type of cable to use. I do not think I am going to run CAT5/6 for this install. Is there any special cable needed to use the motion sensing feature of the cameras and DVRs? Sorry for all of the questions.. but, just trying to learn

 

Thanks, again!

[Soundy 1]

No special cable or camera required - the DVR detects motion from changes in the image.

[hardwired 0]

In a liquor store, text insertion from the POS system (along with a tight shot on the counter) is pretty much a must to prevent sweethearting and skimming, you may want to look at a DVR that has that capability built in, and find out what registers are being used and what you will need to interface with them.

 

Plan on at least one high resolution WDR (Wide Dynamic Range) camera at the entrance for facial identification, otherwise people entering will be mostly a silhouette in bright backlight.

 

Consider a camera inside the cooler, you'd be surprised what goes on in there.

[Soundy 1]

In a liquor store, text insertion from the POS system (along with a tight shot on the counter) is pretty much a must to prevent sweethearting and skimming, you may want to look at a DVR that has that capability built in, and find out what registers are being used and what you will need to interface with them.

 

Good ideas. A text inserter is the easiest to implement and will work with any DVR (or VCR, for that matter) and any analog camera - you'll usually set it up with a camera pointing at the till and/or paypoint counter, and transactions appear onscreen as they're rung through. It's pretty easy to see then if something is passed over the counter without being scanned or entered as part of the sale.

 

However, if you have a DVR that supports POS logging internally, that can be a lot more powerful and useful, as it will let you search the POS data and will sync that to the display.

 

Consider a camera inside the cooler, you'd be surprised what goes on in there.

 

Agreed there too! Almost all of our liquor customers (bars/pubs and liquor stores) have at least two cameras in their coolers.

[jbaird 0]

In a liquor store, text insertion from the POS system (along with a tight shot on the counter) is pretty much a must to prevent sweethearting and skimming, you may want to look at a DVR that has that capability built in, and find out what registers are being used and what you will need to interface with them.

 

Plan on at least one high resolution WDR (Wide Dynamic Range) camera at the entrance for facial identification, otherwise people entering will be mostly a silhouette in bright backlight.

 

Consider a camera inside the cooler, you'd be surprised what goes on in there.

 

When you say WDR, do you mean a cam like the Panny 484 or does CNB have a camera that is WDR? Do you have any other suggestions for this brand/model of camera? Good idea on the cooler cam, I hadn't thought of that!

 

Also, do you have any DVR's in mind?

 

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

CNB has some WDR models, but nothing like Panasonic's "Super Dynamic" stuff.

[jbaird 0]

Soundy,

 

Could you recommend a power supply for 8 of the VBM-24VF's? I plan on running RG59 Simease cable (BNC and Power) back to my DVR's location, where the power supply will be. No idea what I need to be looking for in terms of power. Will something like this work?

 

http://www.apexcctv.com/p-383-9-ch-12v-dc-power-supply-5-amp.aspx

 

It doesn't look like I could plug the simease power plugs directly into that.. Not to mention it might be awkward because the power cable will terminate in a different place than the BNC (back of DVR) and the simease cables usually have power/BNC cables attached?

 

Also, do these cameras come with any type of mounts or do they need to be purchased separately?

 

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

Soundy,

 

Could you recommend a power supply for 8 of the VBM-24VF's? I plan on running RG59 Simease cable (BNC and Power) back to my DVR's location, where the power supply will be. No idea what I need to be looking for in terms of power. Will something like this work?

 

http://www.apexcctv.com/p-383-9-ch-12v-dc-power-supply-5-amp.aspx

 

Yes, although I generally prefer a 24VAC supply - you get less loss over long runs, and practically eliminate the chance of ground loop issues when using baluns. Assuming you get the dual-voltage model of those cameras, of course.

 

It doesn't look like I could plug the simease power plugs directly into that.. Not to mention it might be awkward because the power cable will terminate in a different place than the BNC (back of DVR) and the simease cables usually have power/BNC cables attached?

 

The BNC and power cables are separate entities, attached by a "web"... so you just cut a bit of the webbing, grab the ends of the two wires, and peel them apart. Don't worry, it's designed to do this, for exactly this reason.

 

Also, do these cameras come with any type of mounts or do they need to be purchased separately?

 

They're flush-mount domes with surface-mount back boxes... no additional hardware required unless you want to hang them from pendants or something. I've never bothered with pendants though - if they need to attach to a wall, I just mount them straight to the wall using the back-box.

[Soundy 1]

^Wow. Now THAT is cluelessness at its highest level.