serverguy 0 Posted March 31, 2010 Hi all Been reading on this site a lot and it is a fantastic resource. I am a CCTV novice but experienced with networking computers etc so decided a IP based solution would be best and I want to be right up to date. I also want good quality images and am prepared to pay within reason! Firstly a bit of background. Farm in the middle of nowhere in deepest darkest UK. Would like some CCTV to keep an eye on things, will not be actively monitored by a human. Main purpose will be to a) general surveilance, see who comes and goes b) to hopefully identifiy faces and numberplates. I have ordered a which I have basically on demo. I have never really done anything with CCTV before so I thought I would find out what sort of picture you get. Now please see this little drawing I prepared earlier.... (click to enlarge) You can see we have a long drive with a ring road going aroudn the house, then going back to the yard. This photo was a while ago (in fact years and years ago) so I have had to edit it to bring it up to date. The red line by the Y-branch is an electric gate that opens as soon as you go near it - keeps animals in and locks at night. The pink dots are telegraph poles - possible camera locations but I'd rather mount them more discretely. Blue line shows distance from gate to house for idea of scale. 50 metres. Green ticks shows buildings with access to the main network, in fact those two buildings have a fibre link. The one in the middle between the two will have a fibre link to it as well next year as it is being converted into two cottages. Wifi is available everywhere and I can dig trenches... The yellow bars are possible camera locations, with the little lines being the field of view. The red lines are alternate - maybe much more focused in on the driveway. The (very small) dotty line in front of the electric gate, is another gate which could be closed. At the moment traffic can go either way, but it could be forced to all go left at the branch. We quite often do that for a bit more privacy at the front of the house anyway. Ok now for my questions: I have chosen an Axis P1344 camera with the standard lens as mentioned above for now. Do you think these are appropriate for the setting? One of the caveats is we don't want lots of cameras around the place - it is not a prison! I hope that with megapixel cameras we can have less of them coverign a bigger area. I plan to have no more than 4 -6 cameras, and to start with probably 1 or 2. The ones looking away from the road I will probably buy at a later date. Secondly lenses. I get a big confused with lenses. Sure I know how to work out focal length and that stuff (or I can plug it into a calculator )But should I be looking at wider angle lenses, or should I be looking at narrower lenses and focus less on the general view and more on individual areas. Reason I ask is I would like to be able to pick up numberplates and have enough detail to actually be of any use. Woudl you expect a camera such as this to be able to read a numberplates from any of the locations I have, from say 20 metres away? How high should I be mounting the camera? I guess I will answer most of this myself tomorrow when I get my first camera on demo. Thirdly, a camera looking directly at the gate? Would you plonk a camera on the telegraph pole by the gate to record people when they are wating for the gate to open and catch their numberplate? Or would the camera at the end of the top road be able to catch them? Would it have to be focused right in as it is in red or would a wider view still catch it? It seems a bit of a waste of a camera just at the gate but then maybe it would be worthwhile. Would you just use a VGA quality camera in this situation, or would a megapixel be worth it (££££) I have lots of other questions, but if someone could have a read through this and say if I was on the right track I would be extremely grateful Please also tell me if I am doing it completely wrong / suggest better places for the cameras. Or indeed if my camera choice is crap - but I believe it is a new model and for the price it seems very good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted April 1, 2010 Hi serverguy. your post must be one of the best ever posted. good discription good photo plan. and also done good reaserch on cameras. how will you be recording all your cameras and how long for. but one thing you are going to be told on here is not enough cameras. there is nothing worse building a system with blind spots. if this is to stop intruders coming on your land (intruders dont use driveways) also you have no protection for your cameras (the 2 at the top of your pic has no protection from being riped of the wall from behind) i would look at the two cameras looking at your drive way to be ptz. with sensors around your home and sensors on the gate (the ptz will track all movment) i will send you a live view of a ip ptz camera Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 1, 2010 Check the legal position when mounting kit on telegraph poles. I think you will find that if they are owned by a utility you have no rights to use them, even if they are on private land. Ilkie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverguy 0 Posted April 2, 2010 Thank you both for taking the time to read my post Hopefully some more people will come along when they have a chance. I will try to address the points in turn. First of all tomcctv. I have kind of accepted there are going to be blind spots. At the moment I have two main aims (after a bit more thinking) - to monitor the drive gateway and a general view of the house / yard from the building at the top of the picture. In the future I can add more cameras. The only realistic way into the farm is up the road. We are surrounded by fields, and fields, and more fields. It will be impossible to monitor all possible entrances unless I had 50 cameras which I don't want. I will put the cameras as high as possible too keep them out of reach but make sure I am still getting useful pictures. They can all be 10 - 15m off the ground easily. I have thought about PTZ cameras but it is a complication I don't really want, and I feel without an operator they will be pointing the wrong way when you need them. Personally, I feel that megapixel cameras covering a wider area are more useful, and the digitally PTZ the video later. If I had 5 times my budget, I would buy megapixel PTZs that could do autotracking and install sensors everywhere I actually ready have groudn probes that detect movement on the driveway, I will proably tie these into the cameras. ilk: Yes I have considered that the poles aren't actually mine. And it would be a last resort to put the camera on one. However, the pole is only servicing are house - it is a branch off the main line that goes up the road. I also know the BT engineers quite well - it probabyl wouldn't be too much of a problem in reality. Thanks anyway. Anyway - I now have some new plans I really want a camera focused in on the driveway gate - but I really don't want a camera right above the gateway. So I need some sort of zoomy lens camera. I also am really impressed by the Mobotixs system. It just seems really integrated, camera does all the work - saves to NAS, local cache if network is down, no licensing fees etc. I also prefer the look of the cameras to the hulking great thing I have on demo at the moment (Axis box cam in big white housing). What I intend on doing, is to get: (if it is possible to record from both lenses at the same time) 1 x Mobotix MX-M12D-SEC-D22N135 1 x Mobotix MX-M12D-SEC-D22N22 With this new plan, one camera will be mounted on the house facing down the driveway. The 135 lens will be focused right in on the gateway. I will use the B&W sensor for this. The 22mm lens will provide a much wider view of the whole front of house area, the drive and also a side view of the car as it comes past the house after turning left after the gate. It won't be much use at night - but then again the main aim of this camera is to grab numberplates. The second Mobotix camera will be mounted on the other building connected to the network, and will provide a view of the yard / house / bit of everything. Then in the future a few more can cover more of the property. I have assumed one thing and that is that you can record from both lenses on the Mobotics at the same time. If this is not possible, then the driveway camera will be less versatile but still usefull. I have realised that the pricing is not soo bad on the Mobotics as I don't have to buy any expensive software or hardware to record them. Now I have a question: Will a Mobotix M12 be able to pick up a license plate at 50 metres with a L135 lens? Of course, I will have a Mobotix camera on demo before I actually buy any. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted April 2, 2010 the problem with ip and looking at differant types is mix and match recording. 1 screen log on for mobotix then shut it down and then start axis window. you will need software to monitor all makes together. and this will also cost. i would look at a hybrid system that will take ip / mobotix/axis/sony/sanyo and not have more costs for licence. and you can also use standard cameras in the blind spots you are going to have. plus most dvrs come with auto ptz tracking. i have just pm you with live demos of mobotix ip cameras so you can see day and night quality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverguy 0 Posted April 2, 2010 the problem with ip and looking at differant types is mix and match recording. 1 screen log on for mobotix then shut it down and then start axis window. you will need software to monitor all makes together. and this will also cost. i would look at a hybrid system that will take ip / mobotix/axis/sony/sanyo and not have more costs for licence. and you can also use standard cameras in the blind spots you are going to have. plus most dvrs come with auto ptz tracking. i have just pm you with live demos of mobotix ip cameras so you can see day and night quality. My new plan is to use just Mobotix cameras. I like the very integrated system they have, and there cameras look more attractive. I also like the way the system is decentralised - computers and IT will move more and more this way in the future. I will return the Axis camera I have on demo. I want a PC based system, DVRs seem like old technology to me. I also think that by the time you buy a decent DVR that can do autotracking I could have just brought another 3MP camera. As I said, I have two main aims. To monitor what comes in and out of the gate, and to get a general overview of the yard. There is no sense in having other close up cameras, because it would require so many of them, there are hundreds of way you could walk into the farm from any direction. But the road is the only easy way. Thanks, will send you a PM now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
