Little input on wireless system design, please...

[Soundy 1]

So I've just been asked to look into this...

 

Potential client with a monster home of some sort, wants up to 12 cameras around the place... from what I've been told so far, it sounds like most if not all will need to be wireless, and most if not all will be indoors (I get the impression that this may be an old house where adding wiring will be difficult if not impossible... I also get the idea that cost is little to no object).

 

Based on other threads, I'm thinking the Ubiquiti products look pretty good for IP and suggested we could go that way with all IP cameras, or cams with encoders where necessary. The VideoComm indoor analog stuff someone linked to in nickCR's thread looks potentially usable as well.

 

What are the thoughts on these products, or others, for an all-or-mostly wireless, all-or-mostly indoor setup? Remember we're talking about a big place, so some fair range will be needed.

 

Boss wants me to recommend some specific equipment... I'm trying to tell him it's impossible to do that without seeing the place and where the cameras will be going to determine what sort of structure will be required for the system... *sigh*

[thewireguys 3]

Old house you say What are the walls made of?

[Soundy 1]

No idea. I'm just guessing that it's old, though... hoping it's newer, which would allow us to run wires more places.

 

That's the thing, the boss is pushing me to find out about an all-wireless solution and I'm trying to say it's pointless until we know more specifics about the site... *sigh*

[thewireguys 3]

I would stay away from indoor wireless if you want reliability.

[Soundy 1]

I did mention that, but let's assume for the sake of discussion that staying away isn't an option...

[thewireguys 3]

Ok.... Still dont expect reliability If it was a big open room I would say go for it but in a large house your gonna have trouble. Just tell the customer it might work 99% of the time.

[nickCR 0]

I think here you have a few issues to consider.

 

1. The wireless devices are not pretty and it's likely that in a big "mansion" it will 'not' be ok to hang a big white block from the sealing.

 

2. It's imperative that you get at the very least a blue print or some pictures to know what your dealing with.

 

Now for some ideas:

 

If there are several cameras in one area then at least you could get a hub setup to link those cameras and one wireless bridge to the main AP for that cluster of cameras. For that matter the CB/AP could be placed outside without any trouble at all and probably help keep it looking clean and pretty.

 

If that isn't an option I'd really check out those Mobotix cameras that were recommended in my thread. They are too expensive for our application here but I think they might be right up your ally. That is if they don't need a central security officer watching the cameras all day and just need to pull the video when required from the SD.

 

As a last resort finding a tiny Wireless device (USB stick size) might be the only solution.

 

In absolute worst case I guess you could place the cameras close to external walls and go through the wall outside then up to the roof for each camera but that sounds painful but it could be done. Then on the roof you have all the wireless CB/AP.

 

I'm no pro, just throwing out some solutions.

[Soundy 1]

I think here you have a few issues to consider.

 

1. The wireless devices are not pretty and it's likely that in a big "mansion" it will 'not' be ok to hang a big white block from the sealing.

Well, I was hoping if it came to that, those things could be tucked in the ceiling somehow. I did point out too, that no matter what, we still need to get power to the cameras, too.

 

2. It's imperative that you get at the very least a blue print or some pictures to know what your dealing with.

Gotta convince the boss, not me I told him several times it would be almost impossible to come up with anything without at least a vague idea of the house. I guess at this point what I'm looking for is just more ideas of manufacturers, product lines, etc. that might be suitable, as a starting point.

 

Now for some ideas:

 

If there are several cameras in one area then at least you could get a hub setup to link those cameras and one wireless bridge to the main AP for that cluster of cameras.

That was my initial suggestion... I did reference some of what you were doing in your thread.

 

If that isn't an option I'd really check out those Mobotix cameras that were recommended in my thread. They are too expensive for our application here but I think they might be right up your ally. That is if they don't need a central security officer watching the cameras all day and just need to pull the video when required from the SD.

I'll mention that. I think they just want to record them all, no guards watching live or anything.

 

In absolute worst case I guess you could place the cameras close to external walls and go through the wall outside then up to the roof for each camera but that sounds painful but it could be done. Then on the roof you have all the wireless CB/AP

.

There's that too... I did point out that if ceiling access was a problem, there's also the option of putting cameras on or near walls where wiring could be pulled through into utility spaces or whatever - ie. adjust camera placement to match what will work for wiring.

 

I'm no pro, just throwing out some solutions.

[rory 0]

Wireless isnt 100% wireless though, still need power.

Look at videocomms 900mhz stuff, supposedly penatrates through walls more then others, but limited to amount of cameras with that stuff. If it is an old house like we have many of down here, mine included, thick concrete walls full of steel .. may not have much luck getting through more then one wall if that. Want to make the wire run pretty (ish), perhaps some white cosmetic wire mold.

[thewireguys 3]

http://www.aboundi.com/Product/PLC/ElectricConnect.html

 

Check out that link.... it's another option for you and I have used it and it works very well.

[Soundy 1]

Thanks! The option for IP-over-power (or even video-over-power) had crossed my mind as well at one point, and then slipped it again as the boss started getting into the whole wireless thing. I'll be sure to mention that as well.

[hardwired 0]

The powerline option (or HPNA phone-line adapters) might be a pretty good choice, and Ubiquiti 2.4Ghz stuff penetrates reasonably well, but they are coming out with 900Mhz versions of their equipment in Q2 of this year, and that should do much better at penetrating interior walls.

 

I've gotten a lot of penetration with 900Mhz Ubiquiti wireless mini-PCI cards in Mikrotik Routerboards, if the new integrated "N" rate stuff is anything like it, it should work very well inside.

[Soundy 1]

Wow, for someone named "hardwired" you seem to have a lot of wireless experience

 

Thanks!

[bpzle 0]

Wireless shmierless! I can hide cable anywhere! Tell the boss to pay for my vacation to Canada, a couple cases of Molson's and I'll get er done for ya!

[rory 0]

Question regarding the powerline devices, how do they protect against brownouts and other power issues?

[thewireguys 3]

Question regarding the powerline devices, how do they protect against brownouts and other power issues?

 

 

Well if you have no power you can't power your cameras and NVR so I guess it doesn't matter

[rory 0]

Question regarding the powerline devices, how do they protect against brownouts and other power issues?

 

 

Well if you have no power you can't power your cameras and NVR so I guess it doesn't matter

 

No the diff with that is we use Voltage Regulators on the power before it goes out to the cameras and NVR, Is there a way to do it with this? Can you do that between the outlet and this for example before it hits the camera? Also, what happens to the video when the power dips? I guess once you can place a UPS between that and the power outlet it would be okay right? Seems like would need a single UPS Voltage Regulator at each camera at least?

[thewireguys 3]

Question regarding the powerline devices, how do they protect against brownouts and other power issues?

 

 

Well if you have no power you can't power your cameras and NVR so I guess it doesn't matter

 

No the diff with that is we use Voltage Regulators on the power before it goes out to the cameras and NVR, Is there a way to do it with this? Can you do that between the outlet and this for example before it hits the camera? Also, what happens to the video when the power dips? I guess once you can place a UPS between that and the power outlet it would be okay right? Seems like would need a single UPS Voltage Regulator at each camera at least?

 

 

Rory I don't understand... What is the difference if you have a hardwired system or wireless? Power goes out system goes down or UPS kicks in. Same thing with ethernet over power line.

[rory 0]

Rory I don't understand... What is the difference if you have a hardwired system or wireless? Power goes out system goes down or UPS kicks in. Same thing with ethernet over power line.

 

According to this the video/lan is being sent through the electric lines?

What is used at each camera, from the electric socket to the camera?

That is the difference, and a big one. One brownout and its all over, UPS at the NVR or DVR wont help it at all.

Also, I would imagine anytime there is a brownout or dip in power, the network would go down temporarily?

Unless I am missing something? I dont see anything on their website though.

[thewireguys 3]

Rory I don't understand... What is the difference if you have a hardwired system or wireless? Power goes out system goes down or UPS kicks in. Same thing with ethernet over power line.

 

According to this the video/lan is being sent through the electric lines?

What is used at each camera, from the electric socket to the camera?

That is the difference, and a big one. One brownout and its all over, UPS at the NVR or DVR wont help it at all.

Also, I would imagine anytime there is a brownout or dip in power, the network would go down temporarily?

Unless I am missing something? I dont see anything on their website though.

 

 

http://www.aboundi.com/Product/PLC/APL4100-200.html

 

That is the product that I have. You plug it into the outlet and then you plug the camera into the power strip and the network cable to the port on the side of the the power strip. Each device gets a IP address and is configured though the web interface. My only complaint is there is no POE output for the camera

[jjsafeware 0]

does anyone ever test the wireless setup against some radio jammers? there're some hundred dollar gadgets out there.