Advice for a door camera please

[dz-015 0]

Hi all, long time listener, first time caller...

 

I'm looking for suggestions on where to place a camera near my front door.

 

My first goal is to be discreet - I'd like to a use board/pinhole camera and camouflage it. I might consider a small mini-dome. It would go to a GeoVision GV1240 located in the basement using CAT6 + baluns.

 

My second goal is to get a good face shot, which means placing the camera at or near eye-level.

 

My third goal is for relatively easy installation - I don't want to go through the door and its hinges. Unfortunately, the door overhang and the two columns that support it are not accessible (I don't think). If anything is to be mounted on the exterior brick, I assume I'd be able to drill through the brick, the OSB, through the insulation-filled cavity down to the basement - please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Thanks in advance...

[jeromephone 6]

can you get directly above the door ? I would consider a pinhole camera in that header that would give you a full face view and would not require drilling the brick

[dz-015 0]

can you get directly above the door ? I would consider a pinhole camera in that header that would give you a full face view and would not require drilling the brick

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Taking off that header - would I hit a 2x4 edge on? If I were to put a notch in the 2x4 to accommodate the camera, would that affect the structural integrity of the door frame?

[Soundy 1]

I'd move to a place with less brick...

 

But seriously folks! If by "header" you mean the white casing that surrounds the whole door area.... that can come off without affecting structure at all, it's just a soft (probably pine) trim piece. There should be a 2x6 or 2x8 frame behind that that you should be fine notching a bit, IF necessary... however, there should also be a sheeting of 1/2"-3/4" plywood or OSB or something else similar on top of the 2x6/2x8 that you could probably cut enough depth out for a board camera to fit.

 

In fact, easiest process if you were go that route would probably be something like this:

 

1. Determine what size hole you'll need for a lens hole (pinhole lens is probably best, in part because of their conical end).

 

2. Drill a hole that size through the casing and back into the sheeting/framing behind it, to give yourself a pilot. Remember to angle it upward a bit so the camera is looking downward.

 

3. CAREFULLY remove the casing.

 

4. Use a spade or Forstner bit to make a suitable sized hole for your board camera (again, remembering to angle it up as needed). Make a smaller hole and chisel out the corners for the camera, if you prefer.

 

5. Use a countersink bit in the back of the casing to make a space for the tip of the pinhole lens to fit.

 

6. Mount the camera in the hole - stuff some paper in to hold it in place temporarily.

 

7. Put the casing back in place. Adjust camera position as needed and then anchor it with silicone or similar adhesive before reattaching the casing.

 

For the wiring, you could remove the casing on the inside and fish the wiring underneath that.

[dz-015 0]

I'd move to a place with less brick...

 

Too late - closing this week!

 

But seriously folks! If by "header" you mean the white casing that surrounds the whole door area.... that can come off without affecting structure at all, it's just a soft (probably pine) trim piece. There should be a 2x6 or 2x8 frame behind that that you should be fine notching a bit, IF necessary... however, there should also be a sheeting of 1/2"-3/4" plywood or OSB or something else similar on top of the 2x6/2x8 that you could probably cut enough depth out for a board camera to fit.

 

In fact, easiest process if you were go that route would probably be something like this:

 

1. Determine what size hole you'll need for a lens hole (pinhole lens is probably best, in part because of their conical end).

 

2. Drill a hole that size through the casing and back into the sheeting/framing behind it, to give yourself a pilot. Remember to angle it upward a bit so the camera is looking downward.

 

3. CAREFULLY remove the casing.

 

4. Use a spade or Forstner bit to make a suitable sized hole for your board camera (again, remembering to angle it up as needed). Make a smaller hole and chisel out the corners for the camera, if you prefer.

 

5. Use a countersink bit in the back of the casing to make a space for the tip of the pinhole lens to fit.

 

6. Mount the camera in the hole - stuff some paper in to hold it in place temporarily.

 

7. Put the casing back in place. Adjust camera position as needed and then anchor it with silicone or similar adhesive before reattaching the casing.

 

For the wiring, you could remove the casing on the inside and fish the wiring underneath that.

 

Very detailed steps - thanks. I'll take pics and post when I get to this project. When you say fishing the wiring underneath the casing - do you mean creating a groove with say a dremel tool across and down the inner side of the casing? Or would there be some spacing between the door jamb and the 2x6's where I could run the Cat6?

[Soundy 1]

Very detailed steps - thanks. I'll take pics and post when I get to this project. When you say fishing the wiring underneath the casing - do you mean creating a groove with say a dremel tool across and down the inner side of the casing? Or would there be some spacing between the door jamb and the 2x6's where I could run the Cat6?

There's often some spacing there, as door frames are typically made a bit larger than the jambs to allow for adjustment/alignment of the jamb and door during installation. Note I say, TYPICALLY, based on my own experience (worked construction with my Dad for many years), but it may all be different in your case depending on local practices and different building codes. Plus I don't think I ever worked on a brick-structure house, so the doors may be installed differently (I have done all-concrete construction though, and wood doors are done about the same...).

[bpzle 0]

Believe it or not, drilling through the brick would be easier than the door frame/ jam. First, you'd have to carefully remove the trim and caulk, trying not to break the trim. You'll probably break it in which case you'll have to not only finding replacement matching trim but also the paint to go with it. Not to mention there would be plenty of shims around the frame that may or may not allow for easy wire routing. I wouldn't want to mess with these, as they are what keep your door in square/ plum. Overall, total PITA.

 

The brick however can be pretty easily penetrated with a big masonry bit. Hammer drill would be best, but a typical drill would probably work too.

Obviously every house is different and no single approach works for every home.

 

I think the real problem here is that this is a 2 story house. We'd need a lot more info in order to determine the best places to mount and route the wire.

 

1. Is there a bedroom above the front door or just a really high ceiling?

2. Is there an attic or crawl space up near the roof line?

3. Most importantly, what's in the walls? If there isn't a straight shot up to a crawl space or ceiling, it may be necessary to break Sheetrock to a place that has one.

 

What you're looking at is probably THE most difficult and challenging place to mount a camera on any residential install. I would HIGHLY recommend shelling out the extra cash for a professional. Not only will it be done right, but they have all the tools and experience to do it in a reasonable amount of time with minimal destruction of your home.

[bpzle 0]

Of course, the other alternative is to convince the wife that EMT is a popular new trend in home decor.

[Soundy 1]

Believe it or not, drilling through the brick would be easier than the door frame/ jam. First, you'd have to carefully remove the trim and caulk, trying not to break the trim. You'll probably break it in which case you'll have to not only finding replacement matching trim but also the paint to go with it.

Like I said, my suggestions were typical of my experience... I've rarely known these sort of door casings to be caulked, other than maybe a small cosmetic bead. My current house has no caulking at all on the casings - the casing is attached by copious brads, which are easily extracted from the pine jambs. In the event you do break the casings, the chance of finding suitable replacements will vary depending on the design - most I've seen are a very plain, basic wedge cross-section.

 

Before undertaking removing the casings though, it would be a good idea to check the design and then check that a suitable replacement is readily available from your local building supply.

 

As for color, it looks like a pretty standard brilliant white to me... color matching shouldn't be a problem.

[bpzle 0]

I wasn't saying that it couldn't be done, just that it would be a bigger PITA compared to 1 simple hole in the brick.

 

In most brick homes I've pulled wire there is a 2 inch or so void between the brick and that exterior insulation board (can't remember official name). This is a perfect place for wire to run, if it's a straight shot up to an attic/ crawl space.

 

And it just hit me, if this is a house up north the OP could be lucky and have a basement. No one has those here down south, but it would be a lot easier to run wire down there than running wire all the way up to the roof line.

[dz-015 0]

I wasn't saying that it couldn't be done, just that it would be a bigger PITA compared to 1 simple hole in the brick.

 

In most brick homes I've pulled wire there is a 2 inch or so void between the brick and that exterior insulation board (can't remember official name). This is a perfect place for wire to run, if it's a straight shot up to an attic/ crawl space.

 

And it just hit me, if this is a house up north the OP could be lucky and have a basement. No one has those here down south, but it would be a lot easier to run wire down there than running wire all the way up to the roof line.

 

As a matter of fact, I do have a basement where my DVR resides. Good point about the brick - it's a lot easier to drill a single hole. I wasn't aware there is space between the brick and the OSB - I thought they would be right against each other. But I am worried about how to fill in the hole in case I screw up...

 

I'm not averse to removing the door casing - I'm pretty sure it's just a wood casing. I think a nice slice along the caulk (if it exists) and even pulling pressure with a prybar should do it. If it should break, then I'll miter a new one to fit. I don't mind painting the whole casing.

 

So I think I'll try removing the casing first (from the inside of the door). If there is spacing behind the casing and the shims don't take up the entire depth of the door jamb, that would be ideal! I could just bring the wire down without any fishing or drilling into drywall. Just a single hole down in the floor behind the casing down to the basement.

 

However, if there is no space, then I'll consider the brick solution.

 

Thanks!

[Soundy 1]

The catch here is that it's just JUST one little hole through the brick, if you're going for a covert camera, although that works fine if you're mounting some form of standard housing (bullet, dome). Of course, running to a basement is a nice idea, but usually easier said than done, since you do have a floor in between, and it likely won't be easily accessible for drilling - it's not as simple as just tying a weight to the wire and letting it drop all the way through. Well... it MIGHT be, if the brick was all H-block and there might actually be a continuous cavity all the way down...

 

Anyway, I think pulling off the casing is a good place to start - it should come off without much effort, is cheap and easy to replace if necessary, and getting behind it will at least give you a better idea of the rest of the wall's construction - everything up until is speculation based on other experience that may or may not apply to how your particular house is built.

[bpzle 0]

The catch here is that it's just JUST one little hole through the brick, if you're going for a covert camera, although that works fine if you're mounting some form of standard housing (bullet, dome).

 

Actually I had a camera in mind where that's all you need. It's made by KT&C and we use them at all our retail locations. All you drill is a 3/4- 1" hole and pop the camera in. In mounts flush with whatever surface. Looks like a peephole for a front door.

[dopalgangr 1]

Well, while we are on this topic. What would the best board camera with highest resolution and low light capabilities be? I'm looking for one for another project that requires a small camera hooked to a DVR recording @30fps@D1 and need the best for facial recognition.

 

Thanks!!

[programmergeek 0]

You will have to play with some cameras. I just went through this actually wound up mounting 2 cameras a 1.7 bullet type in the wood frame next to the door and another pointing tords teh door from behind. My issues where.

 

I wanted to see the whole porch so no one could hid in the cornors.

the bullet gets about 90% of it.

 

I wanted to see people faces, above didn't work if they had a cap on or looked down I would have no idea who they where. way to the side worked ok but more centered was much better.

 

I also wanted to see if packages where left and if they disappear. This is where I needed the second camera. the main one only shot from waste high basically. Most board cameras the lens is a 3.x and it just will not cover the porch unless the person is directly in frount of it. The 1.7 lenses are big they look like peep holes, if you recess it nicly it is not that bad looking besides I want people to see it a little as a deterent.