Mobotix DualNight M12 FPS?

[G22 0]

If I am reading the specs right, they can only record at 4fps when choosing the highest recording resolution?

[Sawbones 0]

It's that way on many of the Mobotix models. The higher the resolution, the lower the frame-rate... you have to look at the specific specs to really see where the best trade-off will be.

[G22 0]

There is no IP cam that does its max resolution (ie. 3MP) @ 30fps? Even 15fps would be nice.

[Sawbones 0]

There is no IP cam that does its max resolution (ie. 3MP) @ 30fps? Even 15fps would be nice.

 

Why do you want such a high frame-rate? I think the max I'm using on any of my cameras is 6-8FPS... and that's been more than enough for my application.

 

Are you working in an area where a certain FPS is required by policy or law? The human eye often can't tell much difference between 15 and 30 FPS

 

************* Edit **************

 

You're also looking at 15-20 Mbps EACH for that kind of datastream. You're going to need a serious gigabit backbone if you plan on hanging more than a couple of those off a standard switch.

[G22 0]

Residential use. I am a greedy bastard and want the most FPS as possible.

 

I listed the remainder of my Panasonic analog stuff and DVR's on feebay (uname 'oldzy') with the hopes of getting 3 or 4 (at least 1 for now) high quality mega IP cams. Mobotix and Axis look good so far. I like the NAS option, and being able to use 1 CAT5 cable per cam with PoE.

[G22 0]

I might even create a parallel network just for CCTV, don't know yet. I have a couple 3com rackmountable switches w/ GB backbone, but they are pretty old.

[thewireguys 3]

Arecont and Axis can do high frame rates

 

http://www.arecontvision.com/index.php?section=product&subsection=product_details&product_id=9

 

http://www.axis.com/products/cam_p1346/

[Harrar 0]

With the Mobotix, depending on the scene and what you need to capture, try setting Custom Image Size to the relevent area. Why stream the full image when you're only interested in say 70% of it. Can improves throughput considerably.

[buellwinkle 0]

The M12 has very crisp clear b&w night vision sensor (the M12 DNIGHT). When comparing to Axis, it's no context. So you can have 15 fps of noise or 4 fps of good clarity. Even in day time, no camera I've seen has the same sharpness and clarity.

 

I have day and night images from Mobotix M12 and an Axis Q1755 if you want, pm me with your email address. I'm tired of posting them in the sticky because people are being weird. I had an Arecont AV3100DN (3 MP), they have lousy night vision unless you put the camera in midnight mode, but that slows the shutter down to like 1 second, so I don't know how you get 15+ advertised fps when the shutter is that slow. This makes anything moving, even snails just a blur. Also, Areconts are dumb cameras, must be used with a VMS software, where Axis can be used partially without and Mobotix has VMS software built in, takes a lot of the pain of maintaining a PC dedicated to this away.

[Voipmodo 0]

The M12 can do 4 fps in JPG or 10 fps in MXPEG formats at the highest resolution. The M12 is still using the Mobotix P2 chips and boards so when the expected M14 comes out late this year (crosses fingers) the frame rates should be much higher, which I am expecting to be at least 20-25fps at max resolution. Considering the storage needed for that frame rate and resolution, I don"t think many installations even would necessitate those max specs.

[thewireguys 3]

The M12 has very crisp clear b&w night vision sensor (the M12 DNIGHT). When comparing to Axis, it's no context. So you can have 15 fps of noise or 4 fps of good clarity. Even in day time, no camera I've seen has the same sharpness and clarity.

 

I have day and night images from Mobotix M12 and an Axis Q1755 if you want, pm me with your email address. I'm tired of posting them in the sticky because people are being weird. I had an Arecont AV3100DN (3 MP), they have lousy night vision unless you put the camera in midnight mode, but that slows the shutter down to like 1 second, so I don't know how you get 15+ advertised fps when the shutter is that slow. This makes anything moving, even snails just a blur. Also, Areconts are dumb cameras, must be used with a VMS software, where Axis can be used partially without and Mobotix has VMS software built in, takes a lot of the pain of maintaining a PC dedicated to this away.

 

Axis's new HD are much better at night time and the Arecont 3130/3135 is also very good.

[buellwinkle 0]

Which model Axis is better? Their 3MP camera is the Q1755 for their high end and their low end 3MP camera is the P1346. I would say the Q is mediocre, the P is better, but still not as good as the dedicated B&W night sensor on the Mobotix. Price is about the same for the M12 and Q and the P1346 is cheaper. The Arecont's the least expensive, but you get what you pay for, that's why I dumped mine cheap on ebay.

[Sawbones 0]

The M12 has very crisp clear b&w night vision sensor (the M12 DNIGHT). When comparing to Axis, it's no context. So you can have 15 fps of noise or 4 fps of good clarity. Even in day time, no camera I've seen has the same sharpness and clarity.

 

I have day and night images from Mobotix M12 and an Axis Q1755 if you want, pm me with your email address. I'm tired of posting them in the sticky because people are being weird. I had an Arecont AV3100DN (3 MP), they have lousy night vision unless you put the camera in midnight mode, but that slows the shutter down to like 1 second, so I don't know how you get 15+ advertised fps when the shutter is that slow. This makes anything moving, even snails just a blur. Also, Areconts are dumb cameras, must be used with a VMS software, where Axis can be used partially without and Mobotix has VMS software built in, takes a lot of the pain of maintaining a PC dedicated to this away.

 

Ummm... sorry about that.

 

I'm also very happy with the Mobotix night images. I like the D12 domes, since you have the option of any number of different lens configurations with the dual-imagers inside. I'm using a couple of cameras with wide-angle day imagers, and narrow-FOV night imagers to zoom in on specific illuminated areas.

 

The mobotix cameras are extremely full-featured, and do a nice job.

[G22 0]

Do you have to manually adjust the focus on the lenses of IP cams?

[Harrar 0]

Do you have to manually adjust the focus on the lenses of IP cams?

 

Depends on the model of the camera. The M12 in this post is set at the factory for the lenses you order. The D12 Sawbones mentioned, are user changeable and you adjust them yourself.

[rise 0]

Does somebody know which of F number have Mobotix lenses?

[G22 0]

So the M12 has auto-focus capability similar to the newer Panasonic cams (Auto Back Focus)? I really really like the ABF feature. Just mount the Pano cam, access the setup menu remotely and do the ABF thing, and it focuses for you.

 

I am thinking of an M12 on the outside of my garage (top center front). The main reason is that I could then run a simple single CAT5 cable to it via the conduit I have already underground. Does it have a built-in heater?

 

Also, how would the M12 compare to my Panasonic CW484, CP484, and CL934 cams overall, lux wise, etc.? I would hate to sell them (including my HD316 DVR) to fund an M12 (or perhaps V12) or two and not be happy.

[G22 0]

ok, so who has an M12D cheap for me to test? Keep in mind I will have to sell some of my Pano stuff and prob a gun or two to fund it.

 

I like how the alien looking 'V12' says it can resist the attack from handguns. LOL.

 

Another question, how good is motion detection? I mean if someone vandalizes my car fifty feet away down the driveway for example (b/c one of these M12's would be in the back yard on the front of the garage facing down the driveway)... is the camera going to detect the motion?

[Sawbones 0]

So the M12 has auto-focus capability similar to the newer Panasonic cams (Auto Back Focus)? I really really like the ABF feature. Just mount the Pano cam, access the setup menu remotely and do the ABF thing, and it focuses for you.

 

I am thinking of an M12 on the outside of my garage (top center front). The main reason is that I could then run a simple single CAT5 cable to it via the conduit I have already underground. Does it have a built-in heater?

 

Also, how would the M12 compare to my Panasonic CW484, CP484, and CL934 cams overall, lux wise, etc.? I would hate to sell them (including my HD316 DVR) to fund an M12 (or perhaps V12) or two and not be happy.

 

The M12's come with a fixed, pre-focused lens that's actually GLUED into the casing. There's no "focusing" anything... and they don't have an auto-back-focus feature like the Panos (and in fairness, probably don't need it).

 

The D12's (the Dome version) do have focusable lenses... you just rotate them in or out a bit. This is a good thing, because the dome itself can change your focus a little bit, so what looks a bit out-of-focus with the dome OFF, looks in-focus with the dome ON (I'd estimate it's about 1/8 to 1/16 of a lens-turn difference).

 

As for the heater, there are no moving parts in a Mobotix camera... I've never required a heater in mine (some Mobotix cameras get mounted in some pretty severe-duty locations without freezing).

 

I know you're thinking of the M12, but you might consider the D12 instead. Changing modules/lenses in the field is a nice option, just in case the view isn't QUITE what you wanted (though the ability to use a standard 35mm SLR camera/lens combo to choose the FOV is very helpful).

 

And at 50 feet, you're going to want more of a telephoto-type lens. Get out your 35mm digital camera to check FOV before you even THINK about buying anything.

[rise 0]

So the M12 has auto-focus capability similar to the newer Panasonic cams (Auto Back Focus)? I really really like the ABF feature. Just mount the Pano cam, access the setup menu remotely and do the ABF thing, and it focuses for you.

 

I am thinking of an M12 on the outside of my garage (top center front). The main reason is that I could then run a simple single CAT5 cable to it via the conduit I have already underground. Does it have a built-in heater?

 

Also, how would the M12 compare to my Panasonic CW484, CP484, and CL934 cams overall, lux wise, etc.? I would hate to sell them (including my HD316 DVR) to fund an M12 (or perhaps V12) or two and not be happy.

 

The M12's come with a fixed, pre-focused lens that's actually GLUED into the casing. There's no "focusing" anything... and they don't have an auto-back-focus feature like the Panos (and in fairness, probably don't need it).

 

The D12's (the Dome version) do have focusable lenses... you just rotate them in or out a bit. This is a good thing, because the dome itself can change your focus a little bit, so what looks a bit out-of-focus with the dome OFF, looks in-focus with the dome ON (I'd estimate it's about 1/8 to 1/16 of a lens-turn difference).

 

As for the heater, there are no moving parts in a Mobotix camera... I've never required a heater in mine (some Mobotix cameras get mounted in some pretty severe-duty locations without freezing).

 

I know you're thinking of the M12, but you might consider the D12 instead. Changing modules/lenses in the field is a nice option, just in case the view isn't QUITE what you wanted (though the ability to use a standard 35mm SLR camera/lens combo to choose the FOV is very helpful).

 

And at 50 feet, you're going to want more of a telephoto-type lens. Get out your 35mm digital camera to check FOV before you even THINK about buying anything.

 

Guys, you wrote a lot about Mobotix features but there isn't about their apertures. We'd like to compare parameters and images with other, but Mobotix just specified 1 lux, 0.1 lux. We work with manufacturers which also didn't specified it for some dome models with integrated lens but they give us detailed information about lens.

[Sawbones 0]

 

Guys, you wrote a lot about Mobotix features but there isn't about their apertures. We'd like to compare parameters and images with other, but Mobotix just specified 1 lux, 0.1 lux. We work with manufacturers which also didn't specified it for some dome models with integrated lens but they give us detailed information about lens.

 

 

I'm afraid I have no idea what you're asking.

[buellwinkle 0]

The M12 has 3 lenses you can get and they are spec'ed out in 35mm film equivalents. They have a 22mm which is very wide, at 50', you will not be able to id someone. The 43mm is a good all around lens. The 135mm is a long reach, wouldn't recomend it for a driveway. You can specify a different lens for each side but most people probably use the same lens for day and night sensors. If you do use 22mm for day use, get the 43mm for night because you are losing resolution between day/night lenses.

 

Don't be fooled by LUX ratings, it's just a joke. For example, what if I can get .0001 flux, but had to hold the shutter open for seconds per frame, so if a snail was crawling by, it would be so blurry, you would not even know if it's a snail or not. You just have to know from trial and error which cameras are best and with a dedicated b&w night sensor, Mobotix does a good job at night. But realistically, you are always best off using an IR Illuminator.

[Voipmodo 0]

All of the Mobotix Camera lens's have an Aperture (F-stop) of 2.0 and range from 1.8 to 25mm with a real 35mm focal length conversion to 11mm-135mm

[Sawbones 0]

The M12 has 3 lenses you can get and they are spec'ed out in 35mm film equivalents. They have a 22mm which is very wide, at 50', you will not be able to id someone. The 43mm is a good all around lens. The 135mm is a long reach, wouldn't recomend it for a driveway. You can specify a different lens for each side but most people probably use the same lens for day and night sensors. If you do use 22mm for day use, get the 43mm for night because you are losing resolution between day/night lenses.

 

Don't be fooled by LUX ratings, it's just a joke. For example, what if I can get .0001 flux, but had to hold the shutter open for seconds per frame, so if a snail was crawling by, it would be so blurry, you would not even know if it's a snail or not. You just have to know from trial and error which cameras are best and with a dedicated b&w night sensor, Mobotix does a good job at night. But realistically, you are always best off using an IR Illuminator.

 

Four lenses: D22, D43, D65, and D135. (or the "N" versions for the B&W night sensors) I'm using all four of those for various things... and if you deploy them properly, they work very well. Depending on how far away from the camera you are, and how wide the driveway is, a 135 or 65 might be a good choice to cover that area.

 

http://www.mobotix.com/eng_US/Products/Lens-Options/Tabla-de-Objetivos

 

If you reference the handy table above, you'll see that the 135 sensor has an FOV width of roughly 13 feet at a distance of 50 feet (the table is in meters, so 13 feet is just a SWAG). That might cover a single-lane driveway (of 12 feet in width) perfectly. A car is only going to be 6-7 feet wide.

[buellwinkle 0]

Only 3 lenses available for the M12, 22/43/135 but if you buy the M12 Dev Kit (an M12 without a case or lenses), you can probably have other options. The way you order them is DxxNxx where xx is 22, 43 or 135. So a 3MP day/night with 43mm lenses is a M12D-SEC-DNIGHT-D43N43. Don't forget to order a pole mount bracket if you need it and either some PoE switch (I use the cheapy Trendnet, works great, costs about $70 or a PoE injector.