Advice on wireless for Ip Camera System for a Farm

[speleomike 0]

Hi all

 

I would appreciate some advice on the wireless aspects of a monitoring system for a Farm. I intend to us Mobotix IP cameras linked back to the farm house via wireless. At the farm house another wireless access point (AP/Bridge or Client?) which connects to a router which goes to a satellite modem. The router is required to provide access to any camera through the satellites single IP address. This would be done by setting the router to do port forwarding so that each camera is accessible via the satellite modem’s IP address though a different port like this:

Camera 1 at 192.168.1.1:80 <--> Sat Modem's IP:81

Camera 2 at 192.168.1.2:80 <--> Sat Modem's IP:82

 

An optional linux box could connect to the router to store additional images or to runs scripts to create simpler web pages with small images for fast download. The linux box may even replace the router (if I can find a small embedded box with 2 x ethernet ports). See diagram attached.

 

What I am having problems with is:

1. What mode the wireless devices should be set to. There is AP, Bridge and Client modes. Is it client mode for the camera attached devices and AP for the one attached to the router and why?

2. A suitable wireless device that is not too expensive. So far I have found:

http://www.moxa.com/product/AWK-4121 Series.htm but this is AU $1400.

Searching this forum indicated to me that http://www.engeniustech.com.au/ has many devices as do Umbiquiti. However not quite knowing whether I want AP, Bridge or Client make choosing tricky.

Any suggestions - I am in Sydney, Australia so a local supplier who knows the products is preferred.

 

Some sites state a distance that their wireless will cover others just state power or dB. I require from 200 m to 1 km. Allowing for rain that means a few km? I also need one that truly is weather proof like IP 65. The storms and rain can get pretty heavy out west.

 

Any other advice appreciated.

 

Thanks

Mike

[Harrar 0]

One problem I see is the satellite link. Typically, download speeds on these systems aren't bad (multi Mbps) BUT upload speeds are well under this. Unless you plan on veiwing only a frame or two per second from each camera at less than megapixel resolution, you may be disappointed with the results.

[speleomike 0]

Hi

 

One problem I see is the satellite link. Typically, download speeds on these systems aren't bad (multi Mbps) BUT upload speeds are well under this. Unless you plan on veiwing only a frame or two per second from each camera at less than megapixel resolution, you may be disappointed with the results.

 

The Sat system that I can use has upload speeds of 128 kb/s or 256 kb/s for a reasonable amount per month and I can get higher if needed. I actually don't need video but would just look at lower res pics and pick out what I wish to zoom into for more detail. Basically if the animals have moved from one frame to the next then they are fine If there is a problem then with 3.1 MP of image I can zoom in.

 

Mike

[Integratek 0]

http://au.level1.com/category2.php?id=63&id2=251#2

these are rather decent devices and the prices are reasonable.

 

you need to use the bridge mode and give every device manual ip address

 

say cameras have permanent (by MAC) IPs leased by router's DHCP server which are 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.12, subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 and default gateway is 192.168.1.254 (or whatever router internal IP is)

 

wireless bridges than have to have addresses say 192.168.1.101 to 112 and should not have DHCP running

 

at such distances you would probably need to use directional antenna only at camera's side.

[hardwired 0]

On the Ubiquiti products, at least, each device can be set to AP (the receiving end of multiple client units) or Client mode, as desired.

 

I'd recommend the NanoStationM5's (wireless "N" data rate, lots more bandwidth that A/B/G rate equipment) at each camera, and depending on the distance and angle each client unit is from the base AP, either a NanoStationM5 there, or possibly multiple Nanostations, BulletM5 with an omnidirectional antenna, or (ideally) the RocketM5 with a sector antenna. The units should run in WDS mode for a fully layer 2 transparent bridge.

 

Here's a list of Australian distributors for Ubiquiti http://ubnt.com/purchase/australia

Please provide more information about the number of cameras, distance and angle to the base, and desired framerate/data rate, and I can help more with the design layout.

 

For the Linux box, you could build your own with something like the MSI IM-945GSE Mini-ITX motherboard, it has dual LAN ports, Intel Atom processor, should be plenty fast for routing/NAS use.

[speleomike 0]

Hi

 

On the Ubiquiti products, at least, each device can be set to AP (the receiving end of multiple client units) or Client mode, as desired.

 

I'd recommend the NanoStationM5's (wireless "N" data rate, lots more bandwidth that A/B/G rate equipment) at each camera, and depending on the distance and angle each client unit is from the base AP, either a NanoStationM5 there, or possibly multiple Nanostations, BulletM5 with an omnidirectional antenna, or (ideally) the RocketM5 with a sector antenna. The units should run in WDS mode for a fully layer 2 transparent bridge. Here's a list of Australian distributors for Ubiquiti http://ubnt.com/purchase/australia

Thanks, I'll check these out today.

 

Please provide more information about the number of cameras, distance and angle to the base, and desired framerate/data rate, and I can help more with the design layout.

 

Initially one Mobotix M24. By the time I add a camera at 2k, AP at$500?, solar cell/battery/regulator $500 I get $3k per node. Base AP at house will be AP+router+satellite = $4.5k so $7.5k is all I can afford at present. Next year we would certainly add another camera and the most we would need would be 4 cameras. We wish to be able to expand therefore from 1 camera now to 2 next year, then 3.

 

Distance to base for current paddocks is 200m (clear LOS), furthest paddock is 700m (not quite LOS).

Angle to Base from cameras is all angles i.e.

[base]<--200m--> [cam1<)) /o\/o\animals ((>cam2]

 

Data rate: limited by what we are prepared to pay for the Sat connection. The wireless APs data rate from camera to base would easily exceed what we could upload from the base's satellite back to Sydney.

We will try 128 kb/s upload first and then pay more for 256 kb/s upload if 128 is too slow. 256 is the max upload speed and we may well connect at night get the Off peak, between 11pm and 7am AEST, to avoid congestion and get the fastest connection. (Hence the cameras and AP will be used at night even though we might get the daytime only camera)

 

For the Linux box, you could build your own with something like the MSI IM-945GSE Mini-ITX motherboard, it has dual LAN ports, Intel Atom processor, should be plenty fast for routing/NAS use.

 

I was thinking of a FitPC2i which now has 2 ethernet ports, Atom CPU and runs Ubuntu. I can setup that to act as my router and as storage and even grab images from the camera and make a webpage of them. Low power too.

 

Mike

[hardwired 0]

Initially one Mobotix M24. By the time I add a camera at 2k, AP at$500?, solar cell/battery/regulator $500 I get $3k per node. Base AP at house will be AP+router+satellite = $4.5k so $7.5k is all I can afford at present. Next year we would certainly add another camera and the most we would need would be 4 cameras. We wish to be able to expand therefore from 1 camera now to 2 next year, then 3.

 

Distance to base for current paddocks is 200m (clear LOS), furthest paddock is 700m (not quite LOS).

Angle to Base from cameras is all angles i.e.

[base]<--200m--> [cam1<)) /o\/o\animals ((>cam2]

 

Data rate: limited by what we are prepared to pay for the Sat connection. The wireless APs data rate from camera to base would easily exceed what we could upload from the base's satellite back to Sydney.

 

I was thinking of a FitPC2i which now has 2 ethernet ports, Atom CPU and runs Ubuntu. I can setup that to act as my router and as storage and even grab images from the camera and make a webpage of them. Low power too.

 

Mike

 

The data rate/frame rate that you want to record may be quite a bit higher than what you will want to stream, that's why I was asking about the bandwidth.

 

At the distances / data rates you are talking about, the NanoStationM5 as the camera end, and a BulletM5 with an omnidirectional antenna should be fine... But, non-line of sight is generally a show-stopper at 5Ghz frequencies, what is the obstruction?

 

2.4Ghz might be a better choice for penetrating at least a small amount of foliage, at that distance, or can you raise/move the antennas to clear the obstructions?

 

The motherboard you listed should probably work fine for what you want it to do.

[speleomike 0]

Hi all

 

> I was thinking of a FitPC2i which now has 2 ethernet ports, Atom CPU and runs Ubuntu.

I have just ordered one and I'll get this probably tomorrow. This will be my router and act as a NAS if I need more storage.

 

At the distances / data rates you are talking about, the NanoStationM5 as the camera end, and a BulletM5 with an omnidirectional antenna should be fine... But, non-line of sight is generally a show-stopper at 5Ghz frequencies, what is the obstruction?

For the paddocks that I wish to use now I probably have LOS. I'll check that this weekend.

The big paddock though, which we are not using yet, extends over a slight hill. I presume I could put some sorta AP on the top of the hill to relay the signal?

2.4Ghz might be a better choice for penetrating at least a small amount of foliage, at that distance, or can you raise/move the antennas to clear the obstructions?

The antennas will be wherever the camera is located. I can certainly raise them. Again I'll have a walk around and have a good analytical look from a LOS perspective. Its difficult to know whether to use 2.4 or 5 GHz. Being a farm its not in suburbia where there are garage door openers and all that stuff but there might be amateur radio operators, and there are electric fences that buzz. Whether they radiate in the GHz I don't know. They are probably DC to daylight

 

One thing with the NanoStations - the cover at the bottom that you slide off - how weatherproof is that? It didn't look like i was IP65 or if it sealed, just a sliding cover. Other outdoor stuff has IP65 RJ45 connectors.

 

Mike

[hardwired 0]

The Nanostation's are not sealed, the door you see has an overlapping lip that should block any normal rain, etc, but probably not a jet of water. If you were really concerned, you could put them into a NEMA rated plastic/fiberglass box, but I've never had any issues with it.

 

As far as a repeater, sure, that's easily done, if you have power there, or nearby enough to run a cable to. Solar could be an option, as well, but adds more cost and complexity.

 

A single radio can perform as a WDS repeater, but you will lose half the bandwidth. In your case, that still would be enough for a few cameras, most likely, or you can use two radios back to back for full bandwidth.

[speleomike 0]

Hi all

 

Design is progressing. The wireless APs are the difficult things to decide on.

I looked at Ubiquity NanoStations and Bullets as suggested here. They are about AU$240 and $120 respectively. Then there is a WAB-3003 which is about $346.

http://au.level1.com/product_d.php?id=991 Triple the price but better waterproofing, IP68.

Then there are InscapeData's AirEther SB54 at $1000

https://www.camtek.net.au/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=910&category_id=&offset=0

And there are other APs at $1,400. Why is there such a huge range in price? Why are the Ubiquity ones the cheapest. Is there something I'm missing.

 

The other thing that I found out is that most are PoE powered so I'll need a two port PoE that can take 24 VDC input from the solar cell/battery, one port to the Mobotix camera and the other to the AP. I can't seem to find any outdoor APs that take a DC input directly.

 

One more thing Im not sure about. Some AP do 4 modes; AP, Bridge, Client and Repeater. i don't quite understand what the Client mode is. I know I use AP at the central base station, Bridge mode for the cameras (as it bridges the camera ethernet LAN to the wireless LAN) and repeater if I needed to go over a hill. But what is client mode?

 

Mike

[hardwired 0]

Station mode is what would be at the customer end of a wireless Internet service provider setup, connecting to an AP at the other end (routed, usually, not bridged).

 

In your case, using Ubiquiti equipment, you would use AP-WDS to Station-WDS, to allow transparent Layer 2 bridging, and maintaining the source (camera) MAC address. Regular AP-Station traffic removes the MAC of the source, and changes it to that of the wireless equipment.

 

Ubiquiti does a great job at keeping their costs down by both moving high volume (the distributor I use regularly ships out 5000+ units at a time, when they receive them), and by keeping their design simple (as you noted, not IP65 sealed, but good enough for most conditions).

 

Their products are becoming a first choice product for a number of wireless service providers (take a look on their forum for examples, and the WISP forum at DSLReports).

 

I have links using Ubiquiti that have been working, and stable, for over two years... If other products fit your needs better, then by all means consider them.... But for the money, I haven't found anything that works as well as their products do.

 

The Ubiquiti products can be powered without PoE, the power injection they (and a lot of other pieces of wireless equipment) use is not 48 volt standard 802.3af, but rather a passive power injection on the unused Ethernet pairs (Ubiquiti products are generally happy with between 12 and 24 volts DC, but not above or below that.

You can use a passive injector like this to supply power to the Ubiquiti product, just make sure it is regulated to 24 volts MAXIMUM (even 25 can cause damage).

[speleomike 0]

Hi all

 

Thanks hardwired for the comments on Ubiquiti stuff. After taking with suppliers I have decided to go with at first two NanoStationM5s and a Mobotix M24.

 

The Ubiquiti products can be powered without PoE, the power injection they (and a lot of other pieces of wireless equipment) use is not 48 volt standard 802.3af, but rather a passive power injection on the unused Ethernet pairs (Ubiquiti products are generally happy with between 12 and 24 volts DC, but not above or below that.

You can use a passive injector like this to supply power to the Ubiquiti product, just make sure it is regulated to 24 volts MAXIMUM (even 25 can cause damage).

 

One things that is problematic is that the power.

NanoStation M5: http://www.ubnt.com/downloads/nanoM5_DS.pdf

Power Supply 15V, 0.8A surge protection integrated POE adapter included

(I can't find the max voltage stated on their site at all)

 

MOBOTIX cameras are powered by a 24 to 35 V supply,

stated here: http://www.mobotix.com/eng_AU/Products/Camera-Functions/Power-Supply

 

I presume therefore that to connect the Ubiquity to the Mobotix I have to have 24 V on the ethernet line (no more & no less) which is the MAXIMUM that the Ubiquity can take and the MINIMUM that the Mobotix needs.

 

Mike

[hardwired 0]

In that situation, I would use the PoE injector from Mobotix (NPA-PoE-Set) for injecting power for the camera, and the passive injector (or Ubiquiti injector, if you have AC power), as I showed above for the Ubiquiti NanoStation, as long as you are not exceeding 24 volts for the power. So, you would have...

 

Mobotix Cam----<(power)(power)>---Ubiquiti Nanostation.

 

The NanoStations DO have a pass-through power and Ethernet port, but it will only work with other Ubiquiti products, not cameras.

 

I have tested it with several cameras, Mobotix included. (I know, their picture shows a camera... It doesn't work, I have had discussions with them about it.)

[thewireguys 3]

In that situation, I would use the PoE injector from Mobotix (NPA-PoE-Set) for injecting power for the camera, and the passive injector (or Ubiquiti injector, if you have AC power), as I showed above for the Ubiquiti NanoStation, as long as you are not exceeding 24 volts for the power. So, you would have...

 

Mobotix Cam----<(power)(power)>---Ubiquiti Nanostation.

 

The NanoStations DO have a pass-through power and Ethernet port, but it will only work with other Ubiquiti products, not cameras.

 

I have tested it with several cameras, Mobotix included. (I know, their picture shows a camera... It doesn't work, I have had discussions with them about it.)

 

I have also confirmed this with Ubiquiti.

[speleomike 0]

Hi

 

In that situation, I would use the PoE injector from Mobotix (NPA-PoE-Set) for injecting power for the camera, and the passive injector (or Ubiquiti injector, if you have AC power), as I showed above for the Ubiquiti NanoStation, as long as you are not exceeding 24 volts for the power. So, you would have...

 

Mobotix Cam----<(power)(power)>---Ubiquiti Nanostation.

 

Well that clears up one thing. I couldn't work out how to have two voltages on the one Ethernet line.

The injected power does not appear at the data input side of the PoE but only on the data+power output side? is this true for both passive and 802.3ef PoE?

 

The NanoStations DO have a pass-through power and Ethernet port, but it will only work with other Ubiquiti products, not cameras.

 

I have tested it with several cameras, Mobotix included. (I know, their picture shows a camera... It doesn't work, I have had discussions with them about it.)

 

Yeah their advertising shows a camera attached to the pass-through.

 

For the next 2 months I'll be using 240 VAC power then will use solar. That's the next tricky bit.

[thewireguys 3]

If your going to use solar do yourself a favor and use the 12V DC input on the Mobotix camera, ditch the POE. Also see if you can use 12DC on the Nano stations.

[hardwired 0]

12VDC is fine for the Ubiquiti products, you can use a passive injector or just peel the power pairs out of the cable to power it, just don't go below 12VDC or above 24VDC.

 

For the Mobotix, is there a separate power input on that model, or just the CAT5 PoE power input?

 

I just tried powering a M12 up the CAT5 cable with a passive Ubiquiti power injector (15 or 24VDC, +on pins 4&5, -on pins 7&8, and it didn't power up, I was not sure if it needs to do the true 802.3af power negotiation before it would power up. That's why I mentioned the Mobotix PoE injector.

 

If the M24 doesn't need that, so much the better.

[thewireguys 3]

The M12 can take 12dc on the 32 pin input not over the network cable.

[speleomike 0]

Hi all

 

Thanks for these tips. I'm planning now to do what hardwired suggested. Use the Ubiquiti passive PoE and get the Mobotix Poe (described here

http://www.mobotix.com/eng_AU/Products/Accessories/Power-Supply/Power-Adapter-PoE-Set) and power each separately.

I'll do either of two things:

1. Connect PoEs back to back via their "data in" connectors so the power to each device is independent.

2. I read that the Mobotix can also be powered via its ISDN socket so will trty that too - also with its own PoE. Mobotix states that the network/ISDN and serial interfaces are electrically isolated.

 

or as the wired guy suggested I can try the 32 pin connector. That would be the serial I/O? I am not sure you can power the Mobotix on 12V - the docs seem to suggest 24-35 Volts at http://www.mobotix.com/eng_AU/Products/Camera-Functions/Power-Supply

 

I have the stuff on order but won't get it all till prob late next week.

 

Best wishes

Mike

[thewireguys 3]

I think they are refuring to the M10. The M12 can be powered on the d sub 15 pin ( not 32 my bad) 6-12 v dc

[speleomike 0]

I think they are refuring to the M10. The M12 can be powered on the d sub 15 pin ( not 32 my bad) 6-12 v dc

 

Ah. I have on order a Mobotix M24 and two NanoStation5M

Edited July 29, 2010 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

I think they are refuring to the M10. The M12 can be powered on the d sub 15 pin ( not 32 my bad) 6-12 v dc

 

Ah. I have on order a Mobotix M24

 

Keep in mind the M24 is Day/Color only... if you want nighttime images you need the M12

[speleomike 0]

Yeah, I could not afford the M12

Getting M24 at first, if animals are OK in the daytime then fine.

When this s all setup I'll have to post some pics of the Alpacas

[speleomike 0]

Hi all

 

Just a follow up to close the thread and thanks to those that helped with advice. My system is up and working fine. The attached pic is from my website in Sydney that displays the paddock every 15 minutes or when an event occurs (I cropped the pic for this upload here. It's much bigger.). The pics are displayed as a web album with the days images. Including movement triggered events like birds flying in front of the camera means I get about 100 images a day uploaded.

 

My system pretty much followed the system that I had planned together with the the suggestions from here. I'm using a Mobotix M24 2048x1536 camera, two NanoStationM5's for the wireless so 5.8 GHz and a small fitPC2 for the PC. The later fits in the palm of my hand, has 2 ethernets and uses about 4 watts. Some python and bash scripts process the images into a web album and then rsync transfers them to my website which my wife and I can view from our work. I'm using a satellite with 2Mbps up/4 Mbps down. A tunnel also allows me to ssh in or to view the live camera video. The video speed is quite OK but it sucks my transfer allowance so we generally just look at the web album. Its enough that we can see the alpacas are OK.

 

The system has been up and running now for a few weeks and works quite well.

Thanks all

 

Mike

[hardwired 0]

Nice to see it up and running, thanks for the feedback.

 

Do you have it running on the solar yet?