Standalone, low power consumption, 4 to 6 outdoor cameras?

[Jim Hefner 0]

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you folks might offer. I've been a moderator at several forums (non cctv of course) over the years and am sensitive to new members posting long-winded questions right off the bat. However, I've tried the search function and have spent a couple hours trolling around and am still 'way over my head'.

 

Anyway, I've got a couple acres of very rural residential property in NorCal that I'd like to set up a video surveillance system. Below is a list of criteria as best I can gather:

 

1. Standalone DVR w/ monitor

2. Motion activate/record

3. Low power consumption (I'm off the grid so I use solar and batteries)

4. Cameras mount to poles/trees outdoors (snow, rain, & heat tolerant)

5. A couple cable runs to the cameras will be near 300'

6. Night/low light capabilities 100'+

7. 6 channels

8. 2 PTZ cameras and 4 fixed

9. Easy setup, programming, and use

10. Customer service/tech support that actually exists

11. Video accessible through internet or my iphone

12. Budget for entire system including cabling about $1,500

 

I greatly appreciate any feedback, advice, or links you can offer.

 

Thanks again!

[ak357 0]

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you folks might offer. I've been a moderator at several forums (non cctv of course) over the years and am sensitive to new members posting long-winded questions right off the bat. However, I've tried the search function and have spent a couple hours trolling around and am still 'way over my head'.

 

Anyway, I've got a couple acres of very rural residential property in NorCal that I'd like to set up a video surveillance system. Below is a list of criteria as best I can gather:

 

1. Standalone DVR w/ monitor

2. Motion activate/record

3. Low power consumption (I'm off the grid so I use solar and batteries)

4. Cameras mount to poles/trees outdoors (snow, rain, & heat tolerant)

5. A couple cable runs to the cameras will be near 300'

6. Night/low light capabilities 100'+

7. 6 channels

8. 2 PTZ cameras and 4 fixed

9. Easy setup, programming, and use

10. Customer service/tech support that actually exists

11. Video accessible through internet or my iphone

12. Budget for entire system including cabling about $1,500

 

I greatly appreciate any feedback, advice, or links you can offer.

 

Thanks again!

 

If you find what u want for $1500 let us know please

[Jim Hefner 0]

If you find what u want for $1500 let us know please

 

I presume you're telling me what I'm asking for is unrealistic. Are there more than a couple criteria killing the project based on budget? Also, to do such a system what would you expect it to cost (self install)?

[Soundy 1]

Actually, we prefer long, wordy noob posts - it's the short "what kind of camera do I need for my house" kinds that are maddening. You've actually given us something to work with, rather than us having to ask a ton of questions before we can even START getting anywhere!

 

The PTZs are your biggest budget hit here; two *decent* PTZs alone could take up the entire budget. Replace those with fixed cameras, and you shouldn't have a problem getting the system itself in on budget.

 

Does this budget include the power source, though, or just the CCTV components? Depending on where you live and the amount of sunlight you get in the winter months, you may need extra batteries to keep things going. Be sure to spec deep-cycle batteries.

 

Besides the up-front cost, remember that PTZs will be a constant (relatively) heavy drain on the power if you have them running tours (and if you don't have them running tours, there's no point to using PTZs).

 

How about the internet connection for the remote viewing? If there's cellular service, you'll need a 3G stick or something similar (depending on what your wireless provider has); don't forget to factor in the monthly data plan there. If not, you'll need satellite, and two-way satellite can be REALLY spendy, especially if you want decent upstream bandwidth for streaming video.

 

If there's no power local, I assume there's little to no ambient lighting, so IR will almost be a necessity... however that alone is going to draw a lot of your power if you want it to work to 100'. That means higher capacity needed for batteries and charging panels.

 

Don't worry, it's not as dire or daunting as it sounds But all of this needs to be taken into account (and probably more I haven't thought of yet). Power will be your main concern, keeping in mind that winter months will mean greatly reduced recharge capacity.

[thewireguys 3]

I have worked with 2 camera systems with these requirements that start at 15,000$. You will need to increase your budget or lower your expectations.

[Jim Hefner 0]

Thank for the help, guys. The budget is sort of fixed but my criteria are not so let me see if I can revise some things downward.

 

The $1,500 budget does not include batteries or solar panels. I'm planning/budgeting for these separately.

 

If the PTZ cameras are the power and budget hogs, they're out. I can easily get by with a couple more fixed cameras. I can also make the max night viewing 100'. If I need to revise it down to 75' I can probably do that as well.

 

For internet I'm going to use Hughesnet or WildBlue. I don't need to see high-quality vid (lower resolution) in realtime (less fps) so hopefully the basic upstream data package with them will be fine.

 

I read on another forum some guys using the Defender DVR systems and were happy with them. However, I'm concerned the 'weather resistant' camera will not survive any rain.

 

Last, is CAT5 cable the best method for cabling such a system? I know it's cheap, readily available, and I've used it before.

 

Thanks again

[rory 0]

for night viewing, to keep to that budget doubt you will find a true day night camera with 100' of IR, may have to stick to color IR or just mix them up depending on the location, or drop down to average 60' IR true day night OR add illuminators separately and use BW or Color only where you can.

[ak357 0]

I have worked with 2 camera systems with these requirements that start at 15,000$. You will need to increase your budget or lower your expectations.

 

Take it easy Mike

You have to "rethink" your solutions

I would suggest you increase quality and decrease prices

Soundy has solution for about $1500

[thewireguys 3]

Depends if you want a turn key solution or role your own.

[Jim Hefner 0]

Turn-key would be best. However, if it doesn't take too much programming or hassle I can try to roll my own. Any and all advice/opinions are welcome!

 

Thanks

[thewireguys 3]

http://www.sunsurveillance.com

[bpzle 0]

I think for that budget you're going to have to forget about IR. To throw at those distances on that many cameras, just isn't going to happen on your budget.

Not to mention that much IR would drain the hell out of batteries. Think about how much power would be required to cover the same amount of area with normal flood lights...

You could probably do cheap IR bullet cams, but don't expect more than 35' useable throw, regardless of specs (except for bullet cams bundled with external IRs like some pricey CNBs). Experience has taught me that with advertised specs of IR throw, you can expect to at least cut it in half. Sometimes even a 1/3 if they're really full of BS. This is especially true of wide open outdoor enviornments, where there is little for the IR light to reflect and bounce off.

[bpzle 0]

Oh... and definetley loose the PTZ idea. Just one worth buying would take up most of your budget for the entire system.

[Soundy 1]

A thought on the camera issue: one of the most popular cameras hereabouts right now are the CNB Mona Lisa series, as they're excellent low-light day/night cameras for the price. Regular retail, four of them would take up your whole budget, but they have been seen on eBay for well under $200. Not that I normally advocate shopping fleaBay for "mission critical" gear, if you can find them there for a good price....

 

The low-light performance of these cameras would give you good results with even minimal ambient light, and if need be, you could add a couple of cheaper IR flood illuminators, as the cameras should be a lot more sensitive to lesser amounts of IR as well. Put the IR on a light sensor so it only turns on when it gets REALLY dark, and you should be okay.

[bpzle 0]

Ideally, he would use PIRs to activate IRs when motion is detected to conserve power. But again, out of his budget. IRs to throw those distances would easily be more than the cost of each camera.

But here's a more important point: what do you expect to capture at 100' away? Chances are you're wanting wide shots of the general area, not close ups needed for facial recognition/ identification.

So in that case, who cares there's an ant (or is it an intruder?) walking 100' away from the camera? That's useless for police,and you're probably not going to be watching live 24/7 like a security gaurd, so what's the point of capturing anything that far away?

[Jim Hefner 0]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

OK, PTZ is def out. Well, how about just one that I turn on when I want to manually (remotely) survey my domain?

 

OK, IR is out too. Maybe just one right on my driveway/entry gate to give the illusion of 24/7 surveillance?

 

Again, I really appreciate the advice.

 

I'm getting excited to get this thing up and running...

[bpzle 0]

1 external IR is probably do-able budget wise. Still cutting it close though...

 

Now the next big question is a DVR. There's little I could personally recommend for that price range UNLESS you had a spare Intel based PC laying around with a 2.0 Ghz or higher processor. Then you could build a decent PC based system using NV3000 cards from Avermedia. Very good cards for the price, and even get 1 free IP camera license for the future.

[Jim Hefner 0]

1 external IR is probably do-able budget wise. Still cutting it close though...

 

Now the next big question is a DVR. There's little I could personally recommend for that price range UNLESS you had a spare Intel based PC laying around with a 2.0 Ghz or higher processor. Then you could build a decent PC based system using NV3000 cards from Avermedia. Very good cards for the price, and even get 1 free IP camera license for the future.

 

No spare PCs lying around. (I'm an Apple guy)

 

OK, zero IR cameras as I'll just put a motion activated solar light at my front gate. The light and the camera should be enough to scare most folks off. Obviously deterrence is about equally important to me as the actual video.

 

I do have 17" LCD lying around I can use if the box doesn't come with one.

 

Thanks again

[Soundy 1]

Ideally, he would use PIRs to activate IRs when motion is detected to conserve power. But again, out of his budget.

Not really - basic PIRs are a dime a dozen... "pet-immune" types maybe a quarter a dozen.

 

IRs to throw those distances would easily be more than the cost of each camera.

See, I was thinking with good low-light day/night cams like the Mona Lisas, you don't need the tight, long beam - just a "flood light" type coverage should add enough for the CNBs to work with.

 

But here's a more important point: what do you expect to capture at 100' away? Chances are you're wanting wide shots of the general area, not close ups needed for facial recognition/ identification.

Hmmm, very good point. At a full 80+ degree 2.8mm shot, anything 100' away will be a speck anyway.

[bpzle 0]

Ok, so you're saying you could get him 8 decent TDN cameras, 8 external IR illuminators, 8 outdoor long range PIRs, and 8 relays (needed since IRs will no doubt be rated higher than PIR can switch), cable, DVR, power supply, and HDD all at or under his budget?

 

I'm very impressed! I think I found my new supplier.

[Soundy 1]

Ok, so you're saying you could get him 8 decent TDN cameras, 8 external IR illuminators, 8 outdoor long range PIRs, and 8 relays (needed since IRs will no doubt be rated higher than PIR can switch), cable, DVR, power supply, and HDD all at or under his budget?

 

I'm very impressed! I think I found my new supplier.

Well first, his camera count was six... second, depending on the layout, you wouldn't necessarily need a separate illuminator for each camera - one could possibly flood an area covered by two cameras.

[bpzle 0]

I doubt 2 fixed cams could replace what he wants to cover with 2 ptzs he originally had in mind. That's why I assumed the min 8 fixed cam requirement.

 

But even at 6 cams, I'd still be impressed if you could pull off 75-100' IR range, low power requirements, PLUS all the other equip for that budget.

 

Maybe you know something I don't?

 

My point was, the ideal way to accomplish all his original goals just aren't possible with the budget. Compromises will have to be made and I think the OP gets that. So what are we arguing about again? lol

[Jim Hefner 0]

Gentlemen, please, no fighting.

 

Seeing as the IR capabilities are going to be limited in range, costly, and power hogs, I'm totally willing to let them go...

 

Thanks again

[rory 0]

That's useless for police,and you're probably not going to be watching live 24/7 like a security gaurd, so what's the point of capturing anything that far away?

I have a client that has tons of money but has the yard pitch dark at night, in their case for example they just want to see if anyone is there, not who it is, so its lit up with IR from the cameras some 100'. Another example in this clients case they just want to also see who's car is coming and going, and they know the cars so ... But otherwise I agree dont expect to identify anyone really beyond 20-30' even if that depending on the cameras location. IR will never be a replacement for visible light.

[rory 0]

Gentlemen, please, no fighting.

 

Seeing as the IR capabilities are going to be limited in range, costly, and power hogs, I'm totally willing to let them go...

 

Thanks again

Look to see if there are any areas you can get away with just color only cameras, that would be cheaper and be a good image providing there is alot of light. Also BW only bullets could work in some locations as well where its not enough light for IR, and they are cheap as the color only, but still require some light. KT&C make some decent little color and BW bullets which are inexpensive.