Need advice on adding cameras with BNC

[toelke 0]

I am on the advisory board of a church-run preschool. And we are adding security cameras to the facility.

One of our church members donated a DVR+monitor+camera system from Lorex with 4 cameras, and that's been installed.

Now we'd like to install a few more cameras.

 

There is connections for up to 8 cameras on the unit. Four are DIN or BNC (and have DIN cameras on them already)

The remaining four are BNC connections only.

One of the cameras will be mounted about 100ft away (opposite side of the building). And IMO it'd be nice if that one had Pan/Tilt/Zoom.

 

What's reasonable cable distance for these things? Is 100ft or 150ft doable without worries?

Should I just go with the Lorex brand cameras?

Or are there better ones I can get for the same money?

If I don't go with Lorex's, what do I look for with video output?

I see "1.0V p-p" for one camera's spec for video output - I don't know what that means though.

What else should I look for?

 

Thanks in advance for helping out our non-profit organization.

[bpzle 0]

Just to be clear, those DIN connectors for Lorex's proprietary cameras are not in addition to the BNC connections or available ports for cameras. What's the model number of the DVR? You should make sure that you really do have available channels remaining.

 

For example, DIN port 1 and BNC port 1 are actually the same channel and you cannot have 2 cameras plugged into this simultaneously.

[toelke 0]

Just to be clear, those DIN connectors for Lorex's proprietary cameras are not in addition to the BNC connections or available ports for cameras. What's the model number of the DVR? You should make sure that you really do have available channels remaining.

 

For example, DIN port 1 and BNC port 1 are actually the same channel and you cannot have 2 cameras plugged into this simultaneously.

 

I'm sure I have channels available. It's an 8 channel DVR.

There are 8 BNC ports, and 4 DINs.

As you said DIN port 1 and BNC port 1 are the same channel.

And we already have ports1-4 occupied on the DIN side.

 

I don't have the model number handy at the moment.

[bpzle 0]

OK, good. Just making sure.

 

I would definitely stay away from Lorex branded cameras. They are child's toys.

 

CNB is a popular brand among people on this forum. Particularly their Monalisa line. We've used countless of them as well, not bad for the price. However in the past year we've started carrying some off brand Korea cams that are absolutely killer. I think better than CNB. True day night, great in low light even without IR, 620tvl, vari-focal, sturdy and well made. Come with IR or without. Indoor, outdoor, bullet, box, or dome models available. PM me if interested.

 

PTZs- in most cases a waste of money. I know, I know... it has a "neat" factor to impress your friends. But in real life, not worth it. Here's a quick run down why: moving parts break, a good one costs $800 plus, their only as good as the position they were last left on. Odds are real slim you're going to catch an intruder and have the chance to zoom around real fast and get a close up of their face and LP. IMHO PTZs are only worth it if you're going to have personnel on duty 24/7 that could watch the cams and zoom around all the time. Great for retail environments with a loss prevention department, when you have acres of space to cover and what to keep security personsel costs down, or the high tech farmer that likes to zoom in on the livestock and check out particular areas of interest.

 

The lengths you're talking about are pretty short are no problem for quality cable. I wouldn't worry about that.

 

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about with the "1.0v p-p" stuff... The only thing you should be worried about in regards to the "video output" type is if it's NTSC. As long as it's that and has a BNC plug you're good to go.

[toelke 0]

CNB is a popular brand among people on this forum. Particularly their Monalisa line. We've used countless of them as well, not bad for the price.

 

Looking through other recent threads, I looked at this CNB camera ( VBM-24VF )

http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?inc=spe&seqx_prod=1077#p_v1

 

I like it's variable focal length - would let us dial-in just how wide of a view we need.

One thing that's not clear to me is just what angle it can point to... Could I mount it with the dome pointing perpendicular to the wall? And have the camera's view skimming the wall?

Another thing I saw that I liked about it was that it apparently can use UTP, including for power. (which would be nice for installation - run one CAT5 cable up through the attic, across the attic, down the outside wall, hook it up, and I'm done)

 

PTZs- in most cases a waste of money. I know, I know... it has a "neat" factor to impress your friends. But in real life, not worth it.

I see your points... And after thinking about it, I think we should use non-PTZ cameras... - get it set it up and leave it.

If we have something that needs to be zoomed in regularly, just have a second camera zoomed in on that door.

 

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about with the "1.0v p-p" stuff... The only thing you should be worried about in regards to the "video output" type is if it's NTSC. As long as it's that and has a BNC plug you're good to go.

It appears on most of the specs - for example on the CNB above it says:

 

Video Output Level 1.0 Vp-p (75Ω, Composite)

[ak357 0]

 

It appears on most of the specs - for example on the CNB above it says:

 

Video Output Level 1.0 Vp-p (75Ω, Composite)

 

Any Analog camera in North America must comply with NTSC standard

and have to produce 1 V p-p on 75 Ohm load

just Google it if u want to learn more

[Soundy 1]

CNB is a popular brand among people on this forum. Particularly their Monalisa line. We've used countless of them as well, not bad for the price.

 

Looking through other recent threads, I looked at this CNB camera ( VBM-24VF )

http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?inc=spe&seqx_prod=1077#p_v1

 

I like it's variable focal length - would let us dial-in just how wide of a view we need.

One thing that's not clear to me is just what angle it can point to... Could I mount it with the dome pointing perpendicular to the wall? And have the camera's view skimming the wall?

Those are fantastic cameras, and yes, you can mount them to the wall - you can aim them pretty much anywhere within a full hemisphere, including looking straight back down the wall.

 

Another thing I saw that I liked about it was that it apparently can use UTP, including for power. (which would be nice for installation - run one CAT5 cable up through the attic, across the attic, down the outside wall, hook it up, and I'm done)

That's an option on some models - without it, you can still use UTP, but you need to use a separate video balun. Not difficult to do, although either way, you WILL need a balun to connect the UTP to the DVR.

 

This does bring up one point though: while the Lorex cameras are powered by the DVR through their proprietary cables, you will need to supply power to any other cameras yourself. The CNBs are dual-voltage, meaning they'll work with 12VDC or 24VAC (or just about anything in between, although those two are the "standards" in CCTV).

 

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about with the "1.0v p-p" stuff... The only thing you should be worried about in regards to the "video output" type is if it's NTSC. As long as it's that and has a BNC plug you're good to go.

It appears on most of the specs - for example on the CNB above it says:

 

Video Output Level 1.0 Vp-p (75Ω, Composite)

That just means the AC video signal measures 1V peak-to-peak, which is really pretty much universal for analog video (they specify p-p because AC voltage is most commonly rated and measured at its RMS (root-mean-square) level).

[toelke 0]

So I'm currently leaning towards getting one of the CNB VBM-24VF, try it out, and then maybe get 3 more.

But I have a few questions I'm wondering about.

 

If I have CAT5 cable running along the surface of the wall, and this mounted on the surface of the wall, is there enough room inside the enclosure to make all the necessary connections? (I wouldn't want the connections to be exposed to the weather)

 

Would this be over-buying on the camera? Is the DVR/monitor combo going to limit what's visible, and while the camera would be great if paired with a higher-resolution setup, it's overkill, and we'd be better off with a lesser camera that is cheaper?

I think this is the system we have:

http://lorexstore.lorextechnology.com/product.aspx?id=1847&nav=2

http://lorexstore.lorextechnology.com/pdfs/L20WD800_series_specs_R3.pdf

 

I'm not positive - but the connections on the back are the same, and the front panel is the same, so I believe this is what we have.

And the spec page above says for the DVR:

Recording Resolution: 704x480, 704x240, 352x240(NTSC), 704x576, 704x288, 352x288(PAL)

 

 

Lastly - is there some nice combination video Balun & power-supply wall-wart that could be used at the DVR/monitor end to supply the power down the line to the camera? I found plain BNC baluns. But I think I need something that'll look more professional than a split in the CAT5 sheathing and some wires going to the balun, and others off to a power supply.

[Soundy 1]

So I'm currently leaning towards getting one of the CNB VBM-24VF, try it out, and then maybe get 3 more.

But I have a few questions I'm wondering about.

 

If I have CAT5 cable running along the surface of the wall, and this mounted on the surface of the wall, is there enough room inside the enclosure to make all the necessary connections? (I wouldn't want the connections to be exposed to the weather)

I can't speak SPECIFICALLY for the VBM model (we've always used the VCM variant), but I should think so. Consider that it otherwise would require separate power and BNC connections, there should be LOTS of room for an RJ45 (or however it terminates; I've never used the version with the built-in balun).

 

Would this be over-buying on the camera? Is the DVR/monitor combo going to limit what's visible, and while the camera would be great if paired with a higher-resolution setup, it's overkill, and we'd be better off with a lesser camera that is cheaper?

I think this is the system we have:

http://lorexstore.lorextechnology.com/product.aspx?id=1847&nav=2

http://lorexstore.lorextechnology.com/pdfs/L20WD800_series_specs_R3.pdf

 

I'm not positive - but the connections on the back are the same, and the front panel is the same, so I believe this is what we have.

And the spec page above says for the DVR:

Recording Resolution: 704x480, 704x240, 352x240(NTSC), 704x576, 704x288, 352x288(PAL)

Those are the maximum resolutions you'll get with any analog system, so no, it's not "over-buying". Keep in mind that even if it were, you may want/need to upgrade the DVR some day, so there's no point in under-spec'ing the cameras now.

 

Lastly - is there some nice combination video Balun & power-supply wall-wart that could be used at the DVR/monitor end to supply the power down the line to the camera? I found plain BNC baluns. But I think I need something that'll look more professional than a split in the CAT5 sheathing and some wires going to the balun, and others off to a power supply.

Something like this?

 

Most brands (GEM, GVI, MuxLab, NVT, etc.) have similar models...

[rory 0]

So I'm currently leaning towards getting one of the CNB VBM-24VF, try it out, and then maybe get 3 more.

But I have a few questions I'm wondering about.

 

If I have CAT5 cable running along the surface of the wall, and this mounted on the surface of the wall, is there enough room inside the enclosure to make all the necessary connections? (I wouldn't want the connections to be exposed to the weather)

 

Highly doubtful unless you splice the cables together without any connectors, if you want to hide connections get the VCM model. Or use a weatherproof gang box and mount it to that.

[jxk716 0]

I have the VCMs and needed to connect a 3/4 male thread pvc end connector (picked up rubber O rings in the plumbing department to place on the threaded connector) with the conduit coming out from the inside of the building. The end connector screws into the side of the VCM housing nicely. I made all connections inside the housing and wrapped the excess wire around the circular camera mount. Everything is nice and weather proof.

[bpzle 0]

boy do I feel dumb! its amazing what you can forget after a couple glasses of scotch! lol

[Soundy 1]

You SHOULD feel dumb! It takes me at least four glasses to become that forgetful!

[Guest]

"That just means the AC video signal measures 1V peak-to-peak, which is really pretty much universal for analog video (they specify p-p because AC voltage is most commonly rated and measured at its RMS (root-mean-square) level)."

 

Sorry Matt do you want to try that again?

 

AC (alternating current) has nothing to do with video.

 

 

 

Either I have slipped into some weird third dimension or you lot in the US have started early on the booze!

 

Ilkie

[Soundy 1]

Sorry, poorly worded... "AC-like" is what I was going for, since a video signal LOOKS like an AC waveform.

[ak357 0]

Sorry, poorly worded... "AC-like" is what I was going for, since a video signal LOOKS like an AC waveform.

 

LOOKS like an AC waveform ?

[Soundy 1]

Not all AC waveforms are sinusoidal.

[bpzle 0]

Are you or someone you know struggling with sinusoidal thoughts? Tired of the constant ups and downs? Need an outlet? Soundy can help with all your current problems. Don't gauge yourself too thin. It's not too late. There's still light at the end of the line. PM now.

 

haha, get it? I'll be here all week folks. don't forget to tip your waitress

[toelke 0]

Not all AC waveforms are sinusoidal.

 

AC is usually defined as a sinusoidal waveform of alternating current (positive and negative current).

 

But not all sinusoidal (or complex multi-frequency sinusoidal) waveforms are Alternating Current.

 

I think very little current is actually being sent in the case of a TV video signal. And if I believe this: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/tv9.htm then it's all positive voltages - so no negative currents, so not an AC signal.

Of course that's showing a 2V p-p; while the specs of these cameras are 1V p-p. So probably not the right diagram for cctv cameras.

 

I am not regularly working in a room with a O-scope, and frankly don't care enough to find out exactly what a real waveform for a camera looks like.

 

I'd say it's reasonable to say it "looks like an AC waveform". If the reference voltage (aka ground) is within the 1V p-p, then it not only looks like, it actually is an AC waveform. (The waveform is a set of sinusoids at various frequencies making a more complex waveform.)

[Soundy 1]

Not all AC waveforms are sinusoidal.

 

AC is usually defined as a sinusoidal waveform of alternating current (positive and negative current).

 

But not all sinusoidal (or complex multi-frequency sinusoidal) waveforms are Alternating Current.

 

I think very little current is actually being sent in the case of a TV video signal. And if I believe this: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/tv9.htm then it's all positive voltages - so no negative currents, so not an AC signal.

Depends on how one looks at it, or in some cases how the circuit is designed... it could also be an AC signal with a DC offset.

 

In any case, if one wanted to check the voltage of the video signal, one would need either an O-scope, or a P-P voltage meter - most basic multimeters wouldn't get a proper reading on either DC or AC settings.