Long Term storage, archiving

[CSG 0]

Designing a DVR system for a client who wants 4 cams recorded for minimum 4 months storage, and backed up in the event of drive crash.

 

I've spec'ed a Dedicated Micros D4 with 2.4 Terabyte RAID5 Box, plus an ECCO 9ch 300gb for 7 other cams that don't have the same storage/archive requirement, or a Dedicated Micros BX2 16 channel with Continous Archive, 1.2 Terabyte with spare drive caddies.

 

Now if the client didn't require redundancy, I could install a nice DM Sprite2 600GB and a 1 terabyte JBOD.

 

Well, he'll have his choice. Already told him it could be 15k+ USD and he didnt wince so we'll take it from there.

[rory 0]

Ive used both the GE and the DM and being in the US I would go the GE route over the DM, better product, features, and pricing is also better from GE. Remember DM is a Uk product so I imagine that is why it cost so much more on the US side.

 

If you need more info, list what features you need and we can go from there.

 

Rory

[scottj 0]

You could use a PC based system with a drive array for storage. Possibly even use Matrix raid. I know a company called digi-data who sells very nice array stsems for a reasonable price.

 

scottj

[DataAve 0]

May I suggest a Panasonic with the expansion unit. We use these and have yet to have a complaint on them. We buy them direct, but for the price you mention, you are well in his budget with this unit. Support is pretty good. These are very nice functioning (some say too many options) and very attractive (most customers like when something is "pertty"). You can also log in to program and back up the settings, because once the customer screws with the settings (and he/she will), you can back it up almost instantly. This saves so many hours of programming when the client has multiple recorders with muliple settings.

 

 

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&catGroupId=14463

[G22 0]

Yes, those blue/silver Panasonics are definitely pretty. Seen a demo and I wanted to play wit it all day long.

[CSG 0]

Thanks for the info folks. I've been a steady DM installer, but I will be checking out these other units you mentioned at the next ISC show in NY. My local suppliers tell be there's no pricing difference between DM + GE, I guess everything is imported anyway so the weak dollar is making it costlier or eating into the MFG's margins.

 

I know the DM rep pretty well, gives excellent support and design info. They stand behind their equipment. I had problems with a D4 I installed 3 yrs ago, after a little cajoling I got a new replacement. Made the client happy.

[rory 0]

The dealer pricing on the DM is approx $1000 more than the equivelant in the GE DVRs. GE would be cheaper as its made in the good ole US of A

 

Your DM rep may get a better deal than others though and is probably passing that onto you, which is always good

[DataAve 0]

All do respect, for what you get in the DM, it is totally over priced. Much better selection out there than those cartoon-like (I believe they are manufactured at Disney World) Dedicated Micros. A major beverage place insist we use these and we were giving the techs over at DM, tech support.

 

I would take a Kalatel over DM any day and save the client $$$$...some anyway.

[CSG 0]

Just for the heck of it I will price out a comparable Kalatel system, with 2+ TB of Raid storage. I'll let you know what the difference is.

 

I will only spec embedded systems. Once i'm finished with a job and get paid, I don't want to go back on warranty calls. A PC based system isn't going to be reliable enough for me. I've installed many DM's, only had grief with one unit, which started when the user changed the admin password. My billable service call rate is $125/hr for CCTV repairs (NY,NY). If I have to do free warranty work, it eats into whatever profit I made on that installation.

[bwa 0]

Designing a DVR system for a client who wants 4 cams recorded for minimum 4 months storage, and backed up in the event of drive crash.

If you are looking for motion-controlled recording, our DIREX-Pro.R120 (2x60GB HDDs inside, release date: approx. August 2005) can be a nice solution for your application:

http://www.bwa-technology.de/en/direx_pro/specif.html

 

But generally due to low power consumption and special firmware procedures for extension of HDD’s durability, all our DiREX-Pro.xxx DVRs are really reliable unit as well.

 

PS: 100GB means approx. 3-4 weeks UNINTERRUPTED recording from 4 cameras with about 1.5-2 fps/channel.

[CSG 0]

ok, I priced out the Kalatels today, so here's what we got.

 

DM D4 80gb plus a RAID box of 2.4 TB = 11,400 USD

Kalatel DVRMe with 1TB plus RAID box of 1TB = 12,000 USD

 

Seems like DM is cheaper, with more storage.

[rory 0]

I have the price list here for both of them, and its the same from any distributor. Try it with the same specs for the GE that is used with the DM, an 80GB HDD .. I cant list prices here, but GE is around $500-1000 cheaper from the 4 channel to the 10 channel and you get a 10 channel for less than the DMs 6 channel equivelant.

 

Also, of you are pricing it with the DVMRe-CT or the PRO then it will be alot, but the equivelant of the DM4 would be the StoreSafe Pro. Though the CT isnt much more than the StoreSafe pro, I think you need at least the DVMReCT to do the raid though.

 

I dont know what RAID costs so I cant go there ..

[DataAve 0]

Try Panasonic.

[qman 0]

Try the DIGI-1600XP, about 2-3K less than those units, plus you get REALTIME hardware recording and Viewing, and it's a triplex.

 

http://www.i-viewusa.com/products.htm

 

If it's good enough for Mohegan sun, then it should be good enough for your clients.

[CSG 0]

Rory,

 

I called Kalatel Tech support and that's what they recommended. They said the Storesaf wouldn't handle it. I priced out what they recommended, although honestly i'm not familiar with their line so there may be other choices with Kalatel. One thing I noticed is that they use wavelet, I thought you said wavelet didnt perform well with remote viewing, or was it activity detection? Both are important in this application.

[CSG 0]

The I-View stuff looks interesting, will have to check it out.

[rory 0]

Well its not as good as MPEG4 for remote viewing .. what does the DM use? I have used them in the past where other installers put them in, they just were not quite as good as the kalatel DVRs, as far as ease of use, image speed and features. They did have a couple features that GE didnt have, but was not a considerable difference. In fact. the Miami Distributors are selling DM down here to the companies here who ask for a high end DVR. They dont know much about DVRs so they call me to get them port forwarded etc., thats when I get to use them If I was in the Uk I would probably sell them, or even Baxall. But US side the GE is worth the price for a machine type DVR. It uses Nucleus which is a more stable OS than what DM uses, much stronger also. It is used in cell phones and more often, medical equipment.

 

Also, for DM units I have only ever used the DM Sprite, the 6 channel IP DVR, and the 4 channel DVR (which I think was the DM 4)...

 

For recording Wavelet is higher quality than MPEG4 though, thats why I use MPEG4 for remote and Wavelet for recording.

 

Yeah I read the datasheet they say you need at least the DVMRe-CT for the RAID, they start at 80GB also.

 

GEs motion detection is great, actually better than the PC ones Ive used, simple plug and play actually, no real need to do much set up except the zones like trees etc.

 

If you want the features the PC is great, but it sounds like you know you need the stand alone ..i sell both and I know where you are coming from. I have clients I would never install a PC system in, no matter how many features it has.

 

With GE for RAID they have the DVMRe-CT or the DVMRe-PRO, the PRO is approx $1000 more than the CT, only additional feature is it has supposedly 120pps, in a mode they call the Turbo Mode. I dont think most people will need this model, or want to pay for it, the CT is fine and we have used them alot. We have it in our alarm monitoring station also. Though except for not having RAID connection, the StoreSafe PRO or StoreSafe is really all we sell now in the GE line, as they are much cheaper. They have a Built in CDR but we never use that.

 

If you need built in storage then you would want the DVMRE CT or PRO as they go up to 1.2TB. Also, you can also just use RAID incase GE quoted you their DVSe Digital Storage Device which does cost a fortune. The DVMRe CT or PRO also has a firewire port for archiving so actually you can use any Firewire device. It uses the SCSI port for the RAID or DVSe.

 

Also, if you are comfortable with the DM, then dont switch, stay with what you know. If it is a considerable difference in price, then its worth at least looking at. I can email you a couple demos to look at for remote video if you like. You can also cusomize the GUI for the kalatel DVRs using a developers ActiveX Control, for developers and dealers only.

 

Best of both worlds would be cameras looped from a stand alone, into a PC system ... if one could afford both

 

Rory

[CSG 0]

Rory,

 

Good points. To anwser your DM datasheets say they use JPEG. Don't know how that differs form MPEG-4.

 

I've been relatively happy with DM, I wish the video was less grainy compared to what the cameras put out in analog. I guess you will get that with all DVRs to some extent. You have a sharp picture at the monitor, and after the DVR gets done multiplexing it, converting, and compressing the image looks like crap.

 

For DM i've used D4, ECCO 4 & 9, Sprite2 9 & 16 ch. I think DM's activity search stinks, where you look for movement in specific areas. You need to go into the admin setup menu to use the feature. Why DM figured users should go into the DVR setup mode for this I don't know. Hopefully in future releases they will move activity search into the playback screen.

[rory 0]

I think every single DVR has a flaw or two ..