Snowy picture

[trainman 0]

I hope some one can help me. I installed a Gen IV with 8mm lens(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48629&item=5771862565). It is mounted up about 20feet and on aluminum siding. It's is ok in color during the day bit washed out but can tell my son walking by but at night in black and white it is complete snowy and you can't make out anything. I have the camera connected with RG6u with bnc to f connector at the ends, the power is with the cable they sent (bnc connector on that cable is messed up). Any help will be great. I bought this before I flound this site and will be changing it to a higher res after I get back from my June vaction but would like to use it till then.

[rory 0]

Its not a true day night camera so unlikely it has an IR Cut Filter, hence the washed out colors in the day.

 

If it is very dark in the area at night, it is going to push itself as it doesnt have much Infrared at all. They claim 40' on that site but in an open area You are probably lucky to get 15' or so, and then that will still depend on whether it has anything to reflect the IR off of. I would start by lowering it to start with, 20' is very high unless you have more expensive long range IR.

[bryan1656 0]

Sounds like you have a camera on a door, parking lot, or walkway outdoors???

 

That 1/3" Sony SuperHAD should be giving you good images at night.

 

It is hard for us to know without being able to see the picture, but...

 

I'd first check the connections. You've got BNC to Fs which could be cleaned up using just BNCs (75Ohm).

 

I'd bet cookies to donuts that your cam is made for RG59 instead of RG6, as well. - Either way, go with manufacturer specs.

 

And I'd check the cable run for interference, loops, kinks, etc.

 

I'd also check power supply - as you said, you've got a bad connection there.

 

Yeah.. maybe a "do over" for anything between your cam and the monitor and/or recorder - focusing on connections and power supply issues.

 

rory is right, the IR lights won't do you much good at that distance. You can either move the camera toward the target area...

 

OR...

 

Put up some regular old-fashioned floodlights. Visiblt light helps deter theft and vandalism, increases safety, and also helps your cameras to see well.

 

The only reason for IR light is to avoid visible light to keep from annoying neighbors, or in some cases to monitor dark areas covertly.

 

The vast majority of outdoor CCTV systems are best aided by visibly light which also offers many other additional benefits besides simply helping you get good video images.

 

Basically, re-run your cable and put up some lights and see where that gets you.

 

HTH

[rory 0]

I forgot to mention, if in doubt get your hands on a BW bullet and call it a day

 

At my place, i have BW only bullets in the dark areas. 0.1lux regular BW Bullet in medium dark area, where it is too dark for color. And an Exview BW Bullet in the darkest area .. i can always add external IR or Some motion lights when i get some dollars, but so far they both are working well in the low lighting. Then I have 2 color bullets in the areas with alot of light, so they work day and night, and all but 1 of the cameras, are the cheapest on the market!

 

Oh yeah, and like Bryan said, you may want to check your connections, then the wire. You can get BNC Twist ons for RG6U also, just a pain in the butt to put them on properly. Id rerun with RG59 if you can. If the distance isnot too far, and you are not sure about connectors, you can buy premade cable with the connectors already on, its similar to RCA/Telco wire. I have done 30 or so feet with telco 24AWG for a color bullet with no issues, I normally wouldnt do that for anyone besides myself though. Make sure the power supply is the right one, and you are getting correct Volts at the camera end. The BNC to Fconnector connectors may be your issue. If you get some twist on BNCs for RG6, you have to do it the right way or you wont get a good image, its done totally different from how you do regular coax connectors.

 

Rory

[trainman 0]

Update. I turned on the light that is at my flower bed (this camera is watching only the flower bed) after you replied Rory. The snow left. I will lower the camera and add some light here. Just a question but if my connection are bad would the color be snowy also? The color is clear but not the right colors (light green instead of dark etc.) I just made this cable with crimp on f connectors because thats what I could get now local. The BNC on the cable they sent got damaged and that is why I changed to the rg6. I'm not seeing much change from the old cable to the new one. I will be ordering better wire when I order my next camera in July. This is the wire I am looking at http://www.spytown.com/wespen28siam.html with these connectors http://www.spytown.com/bnc2pieccrim.html (already have a high quality tool with changable dies as I do all my catv runs. Rory can I order from spytown? I see you didn't seem to like them or is there a better place. Thanks for the help Rory and bryan1656 I will chack these things today. I'll let you know when it gets dark.

 

 

Thanks Ken

[rory 0]

The Light green is because the camera has no IR cut Filter.

 

Yeah I noticed that snow now come to think of it with this SuperHad dome i have here, but it was when I pointed it up at the sun going down, as I was testing it, then moved it down and it went away, thought you were lookin in pitch dark though thats why didnt come to me ..

 

Yes that siamese cable is the right one. Its up to you, you dont have to worry about warranty on wire so i say go for it

 

Rory

[kaysadeya 0]

I have that exact same camera:

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1887&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

 

The image is good during the day, but I have the same problem at night. I have *lots* of extra IR light in that area, so lighting is not the issue. I think the problem is that it's monitoring a black car and the camera is going to extremes trying to achieve what it considers an “averageâ€

[rory 0]

on the subject of the washy day time colors, check this is the very cheap color bullet from eclipseCCTV, it doesnt see much in low lighting, but its great in the day and at night where there is light: I cant post pricing here but its the rock bottom of color bullets. Id like to get my hands on a couple other OEM models from other companies to also test out, cause this cant be the only cheap camera that performs this well.

Edited October 6, 2005 by Guest

[trainman 0]

Rory I already seen your camera and think it's great. It's the ECL-596 right. That will be my next order plus wire and connectors. Next will be the pc card but I havn't had time to play with the ugly dvr yet. LOL . You know what kaysadeya, My mulch is almost black and there is nothing else in that flower bed yet cause my vandle stole it, killed it or broke it. You think I would go to jail if I jumped out of the bush the next time he visits and beat him with a baseball bat till almost dead. Sure would get rid of a bunch of fustration. LOL I'll try to get a picture as soon as I get the dvr wired to my computer rack.

P.S. If I would buy one of those cameras from you Rory what do you think it would cost total. I live in York PA 17404, USA

 

Again Thank You

[rory 0]

Ill send you a PM when im done running some wire ..

 

Rory

[kaysadeya 0]

You've got someone stealing flowers? Maybe the problem will go away after Mother's Day.

 

As Rory said earlier, if your primary need is night surveillance, then just get a B&W.

[qman 0]

If you live in York, then you should know a place called "Splash 'n' Dash", a car wash. I'll try and get you in touch with the owner, who has my line of EYECOMM bullets and an I-VIEW DVR system.

 

The color in that camera has always been washed out, and the night time operation is much better than what you are telling us you are getting, weird. It could also be where you are pointing the camera at, sice you said 20 feet, then that could be the problem since that camera realworld specs call it for 10-15 feet, anything over that, Auto Gain Control will kick on to it's highest setting, which produces the "grain" in the picture.

[kaysadeya 0]

Yes, I suspect the problem trainman and I are experiencing with this camera is maxed-out gain (and slow shutter) due to the dark areas we’re monitoring. Trainman, if possible, try training the camera on a lighter subject and see if that makes a difference with the night shot.

[rory 0]

No matter what camera you have, if it is very low lighting (too low for the particular camera you are using) you will experience some snow, even with black and white cameras. It just depends on how much light is available for the camera to work with, and alot on the camera chip itself.

 

Exview Color mode will outperform a SuperHad Color mode, while a normal BW camera can outperform an Exview Color camera, but still depends on the available light as cameras use the amount of light in the image to spread it over the whole image and thats why you can get a snowy image - if it didnt use available light, it would be pitch dark in alot of instances.

 

Ofcourse there are a few different versions of the Exview and SuperHad Chips which also make a difference.

 

Now im mostly talking about Bullet Cameras here.

 

If you really want to stand a better chance of a decent night image, you will need to look at either an exview camera, BW, or if there is some kind of light and you must have color, an exview color. Provideo has the CVC-637EX. If it is very very dark it will ofcourse get snowy, but it will perform alot better than a normal SuperHad. It is a high res (470TVL) 1/3" lens, so it is wide angle, and its Exview 0.03 lux or so, switches to BW in very low lighting to help the image quality and sensetivity. It has an IR Cut Filter built in that stays on, so it will not pick up any Infrared Light, day or night.

 

If you really want a Day Night with IR, look at the Provideo CVC-7706DNV, as it has a mechanical IR Cut Filter, or even just checked out the KT&C Day Night Bullet which also has a mechanical IR Cut Filter, though less IR (not sure how good it is never seen it in action nor dont know the companies products) but I have seen the 7706 from Provideo and have used a few of their products.

 

If your pocket is kind of empty like mine, then your pretty much stuck with either a regular BW Bullet for low light, or a regular color like the eclipse bullet (but you need light).

 

Otherwise you will experience what you are getting now, the washed out colors in the day and some snow at night in low lighting, from most day nighters with no IR cut filter and using SuperHad (and some using Exview).

 

Just so you know, alot of these bullet cameras are either made by the same manufacturer, or at least use the same specs.

Edited May 9, 2005 by Guest

[trainman 0]

2nd Update. I lowered it to 10 feet like you guys said. I just checked it because it's dusk now, the camera switched to bw and the snow storm has left . Also people are more clear now. I still have the 8mm lens in. There still is a line accross the screen that scrolls from bottom to top and I'm not sure what this is. I sure am getting a lesson on cctv. With my electroincs and computer background thought this would be cake walk but I think I fell in the cake. No one is stealing my flowers. Last summer I was told I had cancer and a bunch of family came and helped me finish up my flower beds before I went for all the rest of tests and treatment. Since then my decorations (bench, 2ft angel,lights etc) have been broken or stolen. The expensive $40us or more flowers were sprayed with poison and killed. I can tell cause all the little flower around the big ones died at the same time. This is still continueing to this day. Maybe their jealous because I had help? We keep to our selves most of the time. Can't figure what people get out of this. By the way they were wrong about the cancer and a simple surgery fixed me up fine.

 

Thanks for all the help so far

Ken

[kaysadeya 0]

Sorry to hear about the maliciousness of your “neighbors,â€

[rory 0]

you need some razor wire like we use down here .. if this was my house id have it all over the place ..

[CSG 0]

I've used a Pro-Video 7700 DN cam. Gives a good picture, but the night picture with infrared is hazy due to the reflection of the ir illuminators on the lens. I think this must happen to all cams with built in ir illumination. It looks like the cam is seeing through spider webs. A seperately mounted IR illuminator would probably do a better job.[/img]

[rory 0]

One thing when considering them, is to mount them low down, cause they need very frequent cleaning or you will see the spots as it gets dirty, wet, etc. Ive got one right here, well not that one but its an IR Bullet. The domes for sure were terrible with the IR built in though.

 

What I would do is disconnect the IR (or just make sure to clean them frequently), at least you have a great bullet with a mechanical IRcut filter (7706DNV). I asked provideo about ones with no IR with a mechanical IR cut Filter, they said just disable the IR and use the 7706... Hmmmm

[VST_Man 1]

and, CLEAN the inside/outside camera case lense to eliminate the ir reflection. any "rub" or "streak" will be reflected back. a "haze" left by improper cleaning will produce the famous "halo" effect. getting your cleaning technique right will make the difference. no, it does not happen to all ir camera's/lenses.

 

nothing wrong ir built into a bullet as long as you know the ir limitations and use then them to your advantage. anything outside those limitations requires a "extreme" solution.......

[bryan1656 0]

trainman,

 

If you've got a electronics background, then you'll understand the importance of matching your impedence and having good cable runs with good terminations. Youre on the right track there. (get it? trainman?... right track? I crack myself up!)

 

Anyhoo - You mentioned a question about color versus b/w signal - trying to understand the differences in types of video signal, etc. Here'a a fairly nice run down on video that I found that you might be interested in. - Explains it better than I could, plus with pretty pictures!

 

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/734

 

HTH

[kaysadeya 0]

I'm sure the problem isn't the wiring in this case. It's the camera. I have the same camera and the same problem. I have tried a number of cameras on the same wire and only experience the problem with this camera.

[bryan1656 0]

After what's been posted, I don't think the majority of the problem is the signal transmission, either.

 

However, in troubleshooting, you've got to isolate and identify any problems. If the cable run and terminations weren't up to snuff, then part of the cause of the symptoms may not be that the signal wasn't there to be sent (camera or power supply problem) - it could also be that whatever there was of a 1V p-p @75Ohm signal was there was also not being efficiently transmitted due to a bad transmission path (bad cable, bad terminations).

 

If, on the front end, the cable was known to not be as good as it should, then it needs to be fixed regardless. Wrong type coax, plus excess cable, plus poor terminations and excess connectors all contribute to signal loss - loss which can be amplified by there not having been a good solid signal to begin with coming out of the camera.

 

Again... isolate and identify. And when you find one problem, the question is "Where is the next one?" You keep troubleshooting the system until you run out of possible problems.

 

 

anyway... my two cents. Just wanted to clarify that I don't think it is just a cable issue, but that a system can often only be as good as its weakest link... and sometimes there can be more than one issue contributing or amplifying various symptoms to numerous technical issues.

 

[bryan1656 0]

.... that, and I think I may have had too much coffee today!

[rory 0]

and that weakest link could be that the cameras are turned off in recording ..Arghhh, after testing and hooking up some new cameras here at my apt, I forgot to turn the record back on for those new ones, and someone tiefed my garbage can, sometime this morning after 7am .. its in the camera view that wasnt turned on to record!!! And to add to the pain, i hadnt armed my yard beams last night! Guess I was getting too confortable since its been a couple months since the last attempted break in ..