getting antsy

[dino_squirrel 0]

Because I'll be traveling 1100 miles and installing a whole system, doing things I've never done before, I've done close to 80 hours of research on CCTV. I've looked up cameras, housing, cables, conduit, connectors, crimpers, dvr's (pc and standalone based), lenses, etc and I've made my choices. But since I'll be gathering the equipment and traveling I'm nervous about making a mistake and getting the wrong item.

 

I'll be using rg59, station-z, heated and blown housings, 1tb min DVR (still undecided), pulling 6500ft worth of cable, and installing 14 CNB BBM-24f cameras and deliberating on license plate cams. I've checked, checked, and checked again. So I'm checking one more time.

 

Cameras on poles 12 feet high looking over a mobile home park, there will be snow and it will rain often. I want to make sure my choices are clear, cover the area I'm looking to cover, and I can see well at night. If that means adding some IR then I will. I am a pro photographer so I'm very familiar with light compensation. If there's a lot of back light then I'll add fore light.

 

My camera choice is 600color and 650BnW - Still looking for the right priced dvr that can either accommodate those cameras or downgrade the cameras. Yes I'm paranoid, but we're also spending thousands on this project so I need to make sure I do this right.

 

Thanks for listening.

[Soundy 1]

I'll be using rg59, station-z, heated and blown housings,

Just curious, where is this location (you might have told us before, I don't remember)? How cold does it REALLY get? Keep in mind that the cameras DO put off some heat of their own, and as long as the enclosures are well-sealed (which ones are you using, BTW?) they'll retain some heat anyway... unless you have extreme cold, you probably don't need the blowers, and may not even really need the heaters. We sometimes use heated housings here in Vancouver, but as often as not don't even hook up the heaters, as it rarely gets below -10.

 

I am a pro photographer so I'm very familiar with light compensation. If there's a lot of back light then I'll add fore light.

Actually, it's probably more efficient and overall effective to just use cameras that handle the dynamic range better, considering the backlight issues in daylight tend to be short-lived.

 

My camera choice is 600color and 650BnW - Still looking for the right priced dvr that can either accommodate those cameras or downgrade the cameras. Yes I'm paranoid, but we're also spending thousands on this project so I need to make sure I do this right.

Remember the old adage about a chain and its weakest link... just because a DVR may have limitations is no reason to skimp on the cameras... or vice-versa.

 

That said, the MAXIMUM resolution you'll get out of analog NTSC video is 720x480, regardless of the camera or the DVR. Concern yourself more with the overall usability, flexibility, and/or upgradeability of the DVR, since anything in the "good-to-excellent" range will give you the same resolution capabilities. My own recommendation, surprisingly, is a Vigil system - you get hybrid capability (in case you want to add IP camears later), you get built-in analytics, you get a kick-ass network client, and you get great manufacturer support.

[rory 0]

what are you powering with 22awg wire? station-z is 22awg right?

[Soundy 1]

Four-conductor 22ga. Works fine when doubled up (esp. with 24VAC). And realistically, it generally works fine when not doubled up.

 

I've used this example before: gas station that wanted another camera added to the canopy. Conduits are all sealed before the station goes online, so adding another cable run is impossible. Solution: split the station wire going to the camera nearest the new location, use one pair for video for the new camera, use the other pair to power BOTH cameras. Run distance: about 175'. Been running fine for several years now.

[dino_squirrel 0]

I was concerned about back light coming from the homes and/or street lights at night. Example being, if there is a porch light on the camera will speed up the shutter darkening the surrounding area, correct? that's why i was thinking about IR. If you feel the bbm 24f will not need that then I will not get it. I always thought (while watching the vids on youtube for their camera examples) that the blocking of bright lights didn't really do much. the physical light is invading the chip and no software can just reduce that, unless I'm wrong. My camera expertise comes from Canon - 7d 5d, 1d, etc.

 

Bellingham Washington. 3 feet of snow will build up. It gets cold but if you think I won't need heaters then I wont waste money. I'll get regular housing.

 

Station-z is 18awg too if i read correctly.

 

I will admit that I do ebay a lot of this stuff for price comparison, BUT i only look up the exact item not a knock off or similar.

[dino_squirrel 0]

eclipse feature. thats what i meant.

[rory 0]

Ive had problems powering certain cameras with 22awg doubled up before (i have tons of it here for alarm systems) and had to run new wire, so if it were me Id stay clear of it and just use 18awg wire or lamp cord wire. Better yet, id just use siamese one time.

[dino_squirrel 0]

I'm going to use 18. I was interested in siamese but the cost outweighed the work and then I could run four lines, 3 coax and 1 3 pair station-z, so rather than 3 bulky siamese cables. That would monetarily cost less as well. I originally wanted to run video baluns but THAT cost was too high as well. hm... maybe I should. that would make switching over to an ip system later VERY easy. Run more cable? Don't think so! You sir thought ahead! hahah.

[Soundy 1]

I was concerned about back light coming from the homes and/or street lights at night. Example being, if there is a porch light on the camera will speed up the shutter darkening the surrounding area, correct? that's why i was thinking about IR. If you feel the bbm 24f will not need that then I will not get it. I always thought (while watching the vids on youtube for their camera examples) that the blocking of bright lights didn't really do much. the physical light is invading the chip and no software can just reduce that, unless I'm wrong. My camera expertise comes from Canon - 7d 5d, 1d, etc.

All depends on how the camera does its metering, no? AFAIK most CCTV cameras simply average the entire scene, in which case a few bright points shouldn't affect overall exposure. Either way, the "SBLC" function (Super Backlight Compensation) should handle the difference nicely - when I get the chance, I'll post some sample clips of it from a VCM-24vf I recently installed.

 

I come from a photography background as well (I currently rock a 40D; I've also had a 300D, a Rebel G, a Minolta X700, and an Argus C3), and I can tell you, the knowledge DOES HELP, but some things work a little differently when it comes to CCTV cameras, particularly the higher-quality ones with their own processing.

 

 

Bellingham Washington. 3 feet of snow will build up. It gets cold but if you think I won't need heaters then I wont waste money. I'll get regular housing.

Holy crap, where in Bellingham are you seeing 3 feet of snow?? I can see that maybe being total accumulation over the season, or maybe in the hilly area just south of Bellingham, along Lake Samish... but the climate there shouldn't really be that different than here in Vancouver.

 

I think as long as you're actually using SEALED enclosures (not some cheapies with all kinds of vents or bad weather strip) you should be fine without heaters. Or like I say, WORST CASE you should need heaters, but not blowers.

 

Station-z is 18awg too if i read correctly.

Nope - 22ga, 4 conductor. If you double-up, you get pretty close to the equivalent of 18ga.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Guest

[dino_squirrel 0]

I'm not from the area but a pictures I saw there was 3 feet of snow. Now, I thought blowers were for ventilation, evidently I'm wrong. The housing is SEALED air tight?

 

Check our site out, www.ResoundProductions.com click portfolio for vid and photog. we actually do full length films as well. look up "fear lives here" and you should find jumpstarter.com and watch the trailer. we're editing but we did camera work and other stuff on the set. got a few other projects " i can't talk about"... love the industry and the BS terms.

[Soundy 1]

Either way, the "SBLC" function (Super Backlight Compensation) should handle the difference nicely - when I get the chance, I'll post some sample clips of it from a VCM-24vf I recently installed.

As promised... these are in B&W because the DVR had previously had a B&W camera on that channel, and I hadn't dialed the color back in yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[Soundy 1]

And one more because of the 3-attachment limitation...

 

[Soundy 1]

I'm not from the area but a pictures I saw there was 3 feet of snow. Now, I thought blowers were for ventilation, evidently I'm wrong. The housing is SEALED air tight?

Well like I say, that depends on the housing (you still haven't said exactly what model they are). Even in a sealed housing though, the point of the fan is to circulate the air inside across the glass to keep it clear of condensation. You'd have to be in a REALLY cold or REALLY humid environment for it to really be an issue, though.

 

Check our site out, http://www.ResoundProductions.com click portfolio for vid and photog. we actually do full length films as well. look up "fear lives here" and you should find jumpstarter.com and watch the trailer. we're editing but we did camera work and other stuff on the set. got a few other projects " i can't talk about"... love the industry and the BS terms.

I'll give it a look! I don't really do "pro" (more semi-pro/serious-amateur), but I have galleries scattered all over the web. If yer on Crackbook, check http://www.facebook.com/moltenimagephoto... or http://picasaweb.google.com/soundy106

[dino_squirrel 0]

didn't think about it until now, but are you A1?

[dino_squirrel 0]

well i found an encloser for $40 +- and it wasn't heated but now i can't find it. How does the VCM-24vf compare to the BBM-24vf? The image quality i thought was lacking on those pics. I need a camera (well 2 to be exact) that can pick up license plates, well. Can i adjust individual channel frame rates on the dvr?

[Birdman Adam 0]

They are pretty much the same camera, except that the BBM-24VF is a box, and the VBM-24VF is a vandal proof dome. There is also a VCM-24VF vandal dome, which is taller, and meant to be flush-mounted.

 

You can tell they are same/similar because they both have the '24VF'.

 

Soundies' images were in B/W because he hadn't set the DVR to record in color yet. Normally the camera would only switch to B/W during night and low light conditions.

 

And hey, you gotta put up some pics of your install once you finish!

[dino_squirrel 0]

would you say the image quality from the BBM is the same VCM? please excuse how insulting this may sound, but I wasn't impressed with the vcm at all. I'm doubting my choice for using one of those as a license plate cam. I know the lenses are definitely differnt and that make for a different situation, you get the rounding on the edges, thet fish eye look and there's no zoom with the VCM. As I said, this is why I need to quintuple check EVERYTHING before I buy.

 

Thanks again Soundy, I appreciate your patience.

[Soundy 1]

Like I say, I've not used the BBM variant myself, but we use the VCM-24vfs almost exclusively. They DO have zoom - 2.8-10.5mm varifocal by default (although they should accept any M12-mount lens), and they are a 1/3" sensor. The BBM will give the same view with the same focal lengths.

 

Don't go just by the images posted in this thread - those are grabbed before the DVR has been reconfigured for the new camera, but had been tweaked to get the best results out of the old cheap B&W camera. I posted those just to show the difference in the SBLC settings. Check some of the other threads (including one dedicated the Mona Lisa line) for more pictures from these cameras.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Guest

[Soundy 1]

well i found an encloser for $40 +- and it wasn't heated but now i can't find it.

The most common ones we use are the EH3512 models from Pelco (or the shorter EH3508 for smaller IP cams). Couldn't tell you offhand what the price is.

 

I need a camera (well 2 to be exact) that can pick up license plates, well.

 

What you really need there, then, is a tighter view on the entrances/exits. Your limiting factor will really be the resolution, and that will hit a wall with the DVR itself (D1 at 720x480 at best). The smaller the choke point, the tighter the shot you can get, and the clearer the plates will be.

 

Can i adjust individual channel frame rates on the dvr?

That depends on the DVR, but most will allow it. That won't help your license plate capture though - as a photographer, you know the most critical thing for clear shots of a moving object is a fast shutter speed. Either of the CNB models will allow you to lock the shutter speed; obviously if you can get a faster lens (f/1.2 or better) you'll get better exposure at higher shutter speeds as well.

[Guest]

Because I'll be traveling 1100 miles and installing a whole system, doing things I've never done before, I've done close to 80 hours of research on CCTV. I've looked up cameras, housing, cables, conduit, connectors, crimpers, dvr's (pc and standalone based), lenses, etc and I've made my choices. But since I'll be gathering the equipment and traveling I'm nervous about making a mistake and getting the wrong item.

 

I'll be using rg59, station-z, heated and blown housings, 1tb min DVR (still undecided), pulling 6500ft worth of cable, and installing 14 CNB BBM-24f cameras and deliberating on license plate cams. I've checked, checked, and checked again. So I'm checking one more time.

 

Cameras on poles 12 feet high looking over a mobile home park, there will be snow and it will rain often. I want to make sure my choices are clear, cover the area I'm looking to cover, and I can see well at night. If that means adding some IR then I will. I am a pro photographer so I'm very familiar with light compensation. If there's a lot of back light then I'll add fore light.

 

My camera choice is 600color and 650BnW - Still looking for the right priced dvr that can either accommodate those cameras or downgrade the cameras. Yes I'm paranoid, but we're also spending thousands on this project so I need to make sure I do this right.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

 

Aside from the camera choice, preparation is the key.

 

I would also...

 

Document each camera location and determine the view required from each camera, get this signed off by the client. This will enable you to plan lens sizes and pre-empt any surprises on site.

 

Pre build and test each camera assembly and power supply.

 

Test the recording system; make sure you know how to program the unit before you get to site.

 

Take spare cameras power supplies and a variety of lenses with you to site.

 

Establish responsibility for who is responsible for power, and how/where it is to be presented.

 

 

In my experience the cable runs will present the biggest unknown, so include in your spare kit isolation transformers, line correctors etc.

 

Make sure you take the correct electrical & CCTV test kit with you test including monitor, test card generator, video level meter (or ‘scope) and if network connections are required, CAT5E cable test and laptop.

 

Good luck

 

Ilkie

[dino_squirrel 0]

Ilk, can you tell me more about isolation transformers, line correctors, and such other items? Being as I'm 100% new to this I'm re-reading all of my threads and asking now before i get screwed later.

 

Thanks in advance