Recommendations wanted for a 8/9ch IP NVR and IP POE cameras

[mannyaa 0]

I am trying to put together a system for a customer and would love some recommendations. From my research I am not finding much out there and seeing allot of junk. I am looking for a 8 or 9 channel IP NVR. There don't appear to be many companies that make them; specifically I am looking for a Linux embedded NVR because of their smaller form factor and general reliability. I realize there are allot of companies out there that make custom built IP NVR's similar to a custom built PC running Windows, I am not interested in this kind of junk. I found at least two companies that appear to have what I'm looking for Qnap and AverMedia but I have no experience dealing with these companies or their product quality/support. Also my main concern is warranty, I really don't want to spend well over $1,000 (which is what these things cost) and only get a meager 1 year warranty and have the NVR fail and find out later that the manufacture produces junk and offers poor or no service. I'm looking for an NVR that is ready to go, meaning the software is already integrated that allows me to record and view the cameras remotely. I would like something that can support simultaneous recording/viewing of all the cameras (8 or 9 depending on the NVR's capacity). Initially the system will have about 5 cameras total but we want to be able to go up to 8 or 9. The NVR should offer a decent remote viewer for viewing over the web remotely.

 

 

I am also looking for advice on cameras, not looking for the highest quality but for good or very good quality without breaking the bank. I want all the cameras to be support POE and all will be color with nigh vision (low lux or whatever you want to call it). 4 cameras will be outdoors and although I don't want a PTZ it would be nice if these cameras have some kind of zoom in capability and or a wide-angle lens to capture a wider area or for the user to be able to zoom in a little bit remotely. These will all be fixed cameras. Audio is not really a requirement. I would prefer cameras, which use some kind of standard that will work well with the software of most NVR's. 1 camera will be indoors and having audio on this one might not be a bad idea.

 

-Manny

[thewireguys 3]

What is your budget for the NVR?

[Soundy 1]

We're using the QNAP NAS units for outboard storage for Vigil NVRs, they're really nice units. I've fiddled a bit with their online demo of their NVR, it seems decent (at least from an operation standpoint; I haven't played with the configuration pages). Definitely worth a look.

 

You could also look at the Vigil NVRs (www.3xlogic.com) - yeah, they're Windows-based (actually a highly-customized build of Windows XP Embedded), but I certainly wouldn't call them "junk". They use quality components and are very solid machines. They're also on the pricier side, but it's very feature-laden software (POS integration, analytics, "smart-search" of recorded video, etc etc). It also supports "Virtual PTZ" with any attached camera (including analog cameras, if you're using a hybrid box).

[thewireguys 3]

@soundy QNAP are you using the QNAPS as NAS devices or iSCSI targets?

 

Exacq is the same way all of their turnkey NVRs are Windows based (all of the major VMS players run on Windows like ONSSI, Genetec, Milestone...etc) But Exacq will run on Linux and there ELS boxes are Linux based but they are Hybrids and it doesn't sound like your going that way. I have both Windows and Linux NVRs running Exacq for years without any issues. If your intressed in a custom Linux based Exacq NVR PM me but your looking around $2000-$2500.

[Soundy 1]

@soundy QNAP are you using the QNAPS as NAS devices or iSCSI targets?

Well, "NAS" being a generic term meaning "network attached storage", iSCSI is sort of NAS by definition But yes, we're accessing them via iSCSI - Vigil doesn't support SMB shares for storage (they claim it's too unreliable).

[mannyaa 0]

What is your budget for the NVR?

I don't really have a budget per say. I'd say lets keep it as much as possible below $2,000. I do realize that the NVR's cost as much as 4 times the price of a regular DVR.

 

-Manny

[mannyaa 0]

We're using the QNAP NAS units for outboard storage for Vigil NVRs, they're really nice units. I've fiddled a bit with their online demo of their NVR, it seems decent (at least from an operation standpoint; I haven't played with the configuration pages). Definitely worth a look.

 

You could also look at the Vigil NVRs (http://www.3xlogic.com) - yeah, they're Windows-based (actually a highly-customized build of Windows XP Embedded), but I certainly wouldn't call them "junk". They use quality components and are very solid machines. They're also on the pricier side, but it's very feature-laden software (POS integration, analytics, "smart-search" of recorded video, etc etc). It also supports "Virtual PTZ" with any attached camera (including analog cameras, if you're using a hybrid box).

 

This setup is going to be used in a home, a large home. Lets say its a big farm house. I don't need POS features or anything like that. Just want a reliable system and decent quality cameras with good web viewing capabilities. Ok I'll consider windows embedded NVR's, I just want a small box like the Qnap cube type of boxes or a small DVR like box. The NVR is going inside a closet with other equipment and I really don't want a huge ugly box in there.

 

-Manny

[Soundy 1]

What is your budget for the NVR?

I don't really have a budget per say. I'd say lets keep it as much as possible below $2,000. I do realize that the NVR's cost as much as 4 times the price of a regular DVR.

Not necessarily - after all, there's no capture hardware needed; all most of them charge for is the per-camera (or per-group-of-cameras) license. Using the Vigil as an example, the DVR, hybrid DVR, and NVR systems all use the same software; the DVRs/hybrids just include the analog capture hardware... naturally, at an additional cost.

 

This setup is going to be used in a home, a large home. Lets say its a big farm house. I don't need POS features or anything like that. Just want a reliable system and decent quality cameras with good web viewing capabilities. Ok I'll consider windows embedded NVR's, I just want a small box like the Qnap cube type of boxes or a small DVR like box. The NVR is going inside a closet with other equipment and I really don't want a huge ugly box in there.

 

Certainly, give the QNAP a look (make sure you're looking at the dedicated NVR boxes at www.qnapsecurity.com, rather than the main qnap.com site).

[thewireguys 3]

@soundy QNAP are you using the QNAPS as NAS devices or iSCSI targets?

Well, "NAS" being a generic term meaning "network attached storage", iSCSI is sort of NAS by definition But yes, we're accessing them via iSCSI - Vigil doesn't support SMB shares for storage (they claim it's too unreliable).

 

Yes I understand.... Qnap is sending me a NVR and Nas so I can test the iSCSI reliability.

[thewireguys 3]

If your using MP cameras only some of QNAPs NVRs support megapixel.

[Soundy 1]

Yes I understand.... Qnap is sending me a NVR and Nas so I can test the iSCSI reliability.

It's been solid for us, we have a half-dozen or more of them in service... only problem I've run into is that it won't let me create targets over 2TB in WinXP... something that hasn't been a problem on the Enhance Technology arrays we've used.

[thewireguys 3]

Can you get around that by creating multiple 2TB Luns? When I spoke with them they told me there was know size limitation but I don't believe anything any salesmen tells me anymore until I try it myself.

 

What switches are you using with your iSCSI setups? Any bandwidth problems?

[Soundy 1]

I've been just creating multiple 2TB targets (or one target with multiple 2TB LUNs with newer firmware that supports LUNs) and mapping them all as individual data drives. I worked around that on the last one by making all the LUNs into one spanned volume - kinda ghetto, but it works.

 

They kept telling me it's impossible in XP... I kept telling them that it works fine out-of-the-box with the Enhance arrays. The last one, their tech finally claimed that it SHOULD be possible, so I let him remote into the machine and try it, but he couldn't make it work... that's when I came up with the spanned volume idea. The tech finally admitted that Enhance must be doing something extra in their system.

 

I understand that it IS theoretically impossible with XP, but... again, Enhance worked around it somehow. However, the QNAP arrays are a good bit less expensive, and since the DO do the job with only this minor annoyance, they've been the unit of choice.

[Soundy 1]

Oh, and switches.... we're using mainly the Linksys SFE-1000P. Eight 10/100 PoE ports for the cameras, two GbE/fiber ports for the DVR and NAS. They are STELLAR performers.

 

One site I just used a simple D-Link DGS-1005D five-port GbE switch, as the Linksys was located on another floor, and it works fine. Another, I was limited to running it through the site's 10/100 switch, and that seems to be holding up alright too (been in there a year+ and no complaints from the site about network speed).

 

But mostly, we really like these Linksys models - they retail around here for just a hair over $300, not bad at all for what you get.

[rory 0]

Oh, and switches.... we're using mainly the Linksys SFE-1000P. Eight 10/100 PoE ports for the cameras, two GbE/fiber ports for the DVR and NAS. They are STELLAR performers.

 

For the internet do you just connect them to a standard linksys router, or does this have the features built in for that?

[Soundy 1]

It does have some management capability and QoS support, but I've never needed to use either - these are dedicated to the surveillance system. The only other connection is a "jumper" from one of the 10/100 ports to the client's LAN, which has its own firewall and VPN back to head office. On all but one site, the DVR and cameras are on their own 192.168.2.* network, while the stores have their own 10.0.* networks, so there's no "cross-communication" anyway - the DVR is multi-homed on the 10.0.* network for remote access, but that's it.

[ak357 0]

 

For the internet do you just connect them to a standard linksys router, or does this have the features built in for that?

 

Yes and No Rory

He is creating separate sub net

with server

then by using second network card you can do whatever u want.

sure its few other ways to do it

 

Ooops just seen Soundy post answer

[Soundy 1]

It does have some management capability and QoS support, but I've never needed to use either - these are dedicated to the surveillance system. The only other connection is a "jumper" from one of the 10/100 ports to the client's LAN, which has its own firewall and VPN back to head office. On all but one site, the DVR and cameras are on their own 192.168.2.* network, while the stores have their own 10.0.* networks, so there's no "cross-communication" anyway - the DVR is multi-homed on the 10.0.* network for remote access, but that's it.

[rory 0]

So although its on a separate network range, it still goes out on their other network and over their regular internet connection for remote access, or is it separated? But in my case I guess Im just asking really if I can just connect it to a router and then to the cable modem like a regular switch? In that case would a 4 channel version be better, and if so do they have a decent 4 channel router like this with similar features? thanks.

[mannyaa 0]

What is your budget for the NVR?

Let me elaborate a little more on the NVR because different companies do things differently it seems. I'm looking for a NVR for IP cameras so I do not need analog camera inputs on it. The NVR will have recording software embedded and run a Linux embedded OS (I prefer Linux because it's more reliable and I don't have to deal with maintaining another PC in the case of using something with windows which will be more prone to attacks, will need Anti-virus software, etc). But I am still open to NVR's that run windows. The NVR will support at least up to 8 IP cameras and be able to record the 8 cameras simultaneously. NVR will have a web interface that will allow the system/cameras to be configured and will allow remote viewing over a web browser for the customer. It will not require the purchase of any software or licensing. It will have a hard drive built in so that I don't have to use another PC or external storage device (I know some units come with no drives and you have to supply the drives, that is ok). From what I see it looks like the Qnap VS-2012 VioStor NVR offers me the specs I need but it only comes with a meager 1 year warranty which I am not too crazy about. I would prefer something with at least a 2 year warranty. Looks like I can buy it for around $984 which is not bad I guess. Anybody have any experience/feedback on this unit? Anybody know of an online demo of this unit that one can look at?

 

Thank you all for all the info so far.

 

-Manny

[thewireguys 3]

What is your budget for the NVR?

Let me elaborate a little more on the NVR because different companies do things differently it seems. I'm looking for a NVR for IP cameras so I do not need analog camera inputs on it. The NVR will have recording software embedded and run a Linux embedded OS (I prefer Linux because it's more reliable and I don't have to deal with maintaining another PC in the case of using something with windows which will be more prone to attacks, will need Anti-virus software, etc). But I am still open to NVR's that run windows. The NVR will support at least up to 8 IP cameras and be able to record the 8 cameras simultaneously. NVR will have a web interface that will allow the system/cameras to be configured and will allow remote viewing over a web browser for the customer. It will not require the purchase of any software or licensing. It will have a hard drive built in so that I don't have to use another PC or external storage device (I know some units come with no drives and you have to supply the drives, that is ok). From what I see it looks like the Qnap VS-2012 VioStor NVR offers me the specs I need but it only comes with a meager 1 year warranty for a product that is not that cheap. I would prefer something with at least a 2 year warranty.

 

Thank you all for all the info so far.

 

-Manny

 

Well then your options are Qnap, NUUO mini and Avermedia. Good luck

[Soundy 1]

From what I see it looks like the Qnap VS-2012 VioStor NVR offers me the specs I need but it only comes with a meager 1 year warranty which I am not too crazy about. I would prefer something with at least a 2 year warranty. Looks like I can buy it for around $984 which is not bad I guess. Anybody have any experience/feedback on this unit?

Looks like the same hardware as the TS-239 Pro II storage unit. Should be solid... we've been using the TS-439 Pro II, TS-859 Pro, and TS-859U-RP (depending on the specific site needs) and they've been running great. Main difference is that the 239 won't do RAID5 (that requires at least three disks).

 

The storage units have very basic NVR functionality as well as assorted other features (media server, webserver, etc.); the VS units, as far as I can tell, are the same hardware, just with firmware more specialized to NVR implementation.

 

 

Anybody know of an online demo of this unit that one can look at?

 

http://qnapsecurity.com/liveDemo.asp

[Soundy 1]

So although its on a separate network range, it still goes out on their other network and over their regular internet connection for remote access, or is it separated?

It's not PHYSICALLY separated, no. I did that on a couple of sites (separate NIC in the DVR for the company LAN), but it actually proved more useful to simply have the one multi-homed connection.

 

Edit: here's a little quick'n'dirty network diagram...

 

 

 

But in my case I guess Im just asking really if I can just connect it to a router and then to the cable modem like a regular switch?

Yup, that would be the most common way to do it. It's only Layer 2 managed, so it doesn't really work as a router itself.

 

In that case would a 4 channel version be better, and if so do they have a decent 4 channel router like this with similar features? thanks.

I'm not aware of a four-channel version of this switch. Other than the PoE, I don't think it wouldn't provide that much more functionality to you than a quality four-port router. I'd love to find a broadband wireless router with PoE on the LAN ports, but so far I've not seen anything.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Guest

[mannyaa 0]

If your using MP cameras only some of QNAPs NVRs support megapixel.

I'm not sure what cameras I am going to use. Actually I would love some recommendations. I need the cameras to be color with decent night vision and POE compatible. Any recommendations for indoor/outdoor cameras?

 

Looks like for the NVR I am trying to settle with the Qnap VS-2012 since it appears it will meet the needs of this project.

 

 

-Manny

[Soundy 1]

If your using MP cameras only some of QNAPs NVRs support megapixel.

I'm not sure what cameras I am going to use. Actually I would love some recommendations. I need the cameras to be color with decent night vision and POE compatible. Any recommendations for indoor/outdoor cameras?

 

Looks like for the NVR I am trying to settle with the Qnap VS-2012 since it appears it will meet the needs of this project.

 

 

-Manny

I'll have to look up the model of a HIKvision camera I saw in action recently... it's watching the same parking lot as a couple Arecont AV3155DNs, but at night, when the Areconts go to B&W, the Hik stays in color... has as good as or better picture, and possibly less motion blur.

 

Does the QNAP support HIKvision at all?