Camera and software recommendations for outside surveillance

[Jon01 0]

First time poster. I'm looking to quickly (in one or two weeks if possible) install a basic surveillance system on each of two properties. I first present my main question (which cameras to get), and follow this by more background details and a few related questions. I've been researching cameras and systems on and off for several months, but have no prior experience implementing such systems. Thus, I am posting these questions and any answers will be greatly appreciated.

 

Main question: Each system will, at least initially, watch a single designated area during both day and night to monitor the presence of people and cars as well as to document the activities of any people in the area (these systems will document ongoing trespassing and vandalism). Each designated area is 20 to 40 feet from where the camera will be and, ideally, the camera will cover at least 20 feet in width at that distance. I would like video/images to be recorded only when motion is detected. The resolution of the images should be sufficient so: (1) that, if a printed image is shown to someone in the image, they won't reasonably be able to deny they are in the image; (2) that, if a printed image is shown to the police, the police cannot reasonably say that people in the image are unidentifiable; (3) the images can hold up in court as evidence if needed; and (4) that license plate numbers are readable (I understand this may be difficult to do at night). The question is, which camera(s) would be the best to get, given that I would want to keep cost down but not sacrifice reliability in the long run. (Typical images, both day and night, produced by any suggested cameras would greatly help.)

 

Background detail: Ideally, the camera(s) will be mounted indoors looking outside, concealed as best as possible. At one property, the camera(s) will look down from a second story window to a street lit at night by a streetlight. At the other property, the camera(s) will look out from a first story house window to a garage and driveway. The side of the garage that will face the camera is open (no wall) with no lights inside and no lights shining into the garage at night. There is a streetlight beside the garage near the back, at the entrance to the driveway, that illuminates the driveway at night. I'm guessing that this may pose dynamic range problems for this camera, as I hope the camera will cover both the driveway and the garage. In both cases, the future plan is that the cameras can be mounted outside in enclosures once the current trespassing has been documented. Also, in the future, additional cameras will need to be added to survey other areas on at least one of the properties.

 

I have been researching cameras such as Arecont AV3130 or AV5105DN; Axis P1336; Bosch NWC-0900; etc., but haven't researched high dynamic range cameras yet. The Areconts seem like they may be good for the job, but I understand that Arecont cameras can be difficult to interface with in Linux, which is my preferred operating system.

 

As with most people, I would like to keep costs at a minimum, but would rather get a more expensive system than one that doesn't quite meet my requirements.

 

I am hoping to implement the system on a custom built computer running Linux with, likely, Zoneminder. I would prefer to not have to pay a license fees or the MS Windows tax, but will if the best software for the job requires it. For example, I understand that some non-free MS Windows programs (e.g., Blue Iris) might be more reliable than Zoneminder. Once implemented, it is likely that I will not have Internet access to these systems and may not be able to check on them for one or two weeks at a time (they will be at rental properties), thus reliability of the software/system is a high priority.

 

Followup questions:

(1) Any advice on which software to use?

(2) Any advice on a minimum fps to ensure that activity, people, and cars are adequately recorded, given the evidentiary requirements above?

(3) Any advice or hints on how to conceal the cameras?

(4) Any recommendations of enclosures to use given that they may become targets of thrown stones or such?

[shropna 0]

Exacq software (runs on Ubuntu distribution, but about $150 per camera...), Sanyo HD cameras (2100 2300 or 3100 3200)

Sanyo cameras has more better dynamic range, in comparison with Arecont, for example...

[buellwinkle 0]

Typically you need a face to be at least 40 pixels tall to be recognizable and preferabley 80 pixels tall. The easiest way to achieve this is with higher resolution cameras. I think the best in this segment is Mobotix, either the M12D-SEC-DNIGHT or the equivalent D12 if you like dome cameras, but judging from the location of the cameras being indoors looking out, the M12 is a better choice. I would take a guess that their 43mm lens would suit you best. These cameras do not need a PC or software to record. They will either write to an internal SD card or to network attached storage. All the NVR software is built into the camera. I used a WD MyBook World Edition that was fairly priced. This way you only need a PC or laptop to view the cameras or the history. They provide MX Control Center software for free that allows you to view the cameras or history. Since all recording is done by the camera, you don't need any software to record.

 

They come with built in PIR motion detectors good for 30', but putting them behind a window is going to probably negate it's effectiveness, so I would recomend getting outdoor pir motion detectors with the range and width you need and then run a wire back to the camera. Don't rely on software video motion detection outdoors, you will get so many false positives it will make it useless. Every bird, cat, squirrel shadow from a passing car, headlight beams, leaves blowing, neighbor turning lights on/off will trigger.

 

Next, despite how great the night sensor are on the Mobotix, you still need light. Check out Extreme or Raytech for IR lighting. There's all sorts depending on area covered (width and length) and they are usually powered seperately with 12v, but some are PoE.

 

If you want less expensive, Stardot makes a 3 & 5MP cameras that have image quality comperable to Mobotix. But like Arecont, by the time you buy an outdoor housing and cost of lens, they prices are not that far apart and Mobotix is the better camera. I know you like free software, but consider that free doesn't always work. The type of people that use free software are people that don't buy cameras in the price range you are looking at, so don't expect support for higher end cameras. Also, when you setup a PC to be an NVR, it has to be on 24/7 and no power saving modes, it's on on, meaning there's electrical costs and life expentancies you may be ignoring. Home market PC's are really designed for occasional use, not as a 24/7 server.

 

Lastly, it's hard to figure out how much resolution you need. Take your digital camera, take pictures at different 35mm equivalent focal lengths and on your computer, resize the image to various resolutions like 1.3MP, 3MP, 5MP and see if you can identify a person using a certain lens size and resolution.

[thewireguys 3]

Sanyo cameras has more better dynamic range, in comparison with Arecont, for example...

 

That is not true

[shropna 0]

Sanyo cameras has more better dynamic range, in comparison with Arecont, for example...

 

That is not true

 

Sorry, dont have Arecont at that moment, but in comparison with Mobotix M12

[shropna 0]

evening

[thewireguys 3]

I agree Sanyo has a nice image but your images did not show anything with dynamic range.

 

Dynamic range, abbreviated DR or DNR,[1] is the ratio between the smallest and largest possible values of a changeable quantity, such as in sound and light.

 

 

The link below shows a police care with it's lights flashing taken by an Arecont camera.

 

http://flickr.com/gp/52581221@N04/b84ZZ6

[shropna 0]

I agree Sanyo has a nice image but your images did not show anything with dynamic range.

No, you not right. Just compare "day" pictures, and look, for example to cars roofs and windscreens. On Sanyo image everything ok, on Mobotix - that parts are over-lighted, no details. That means, dynamic range of mobotix is worse....

On your film i cant see any info about "better" dynamic range, just lamps flashing, and that areas are over-lighted (no information about different red and blue colors, looks just like a white flashers....

Better examples, what i mean:

[thewireguys 3]

I agree Sanyo has a nice image but your images did not show anything with dynamic range.

No, you not right. Just compare "day" pictures, and look, for example to cars roofs and windscreens. On Sanyo image everything ok, on Mobotix - that parts are over-lighted, no details. That means, dynamic range of mobotix is worse....

On your film i cant see any info about "better" dynamic range, just lamps flashing, and that areas are over-lighted (no information about different red and blue colors, looks just like a white flashers....

Better examples, what i mean:

 

But that film demonstrates dynamic range with the very bight police lights and the ambient lighting. Most other cameras the whole image would be washed out from the flashing lights

[shropna 0]

But that film demonstrates dynamic range with the very bight police lights and the ambient lighting. Most other cameras the whole image would be washed out from the flashing lights

But that is not dynamic range

If you can see colors of flashers or flasher mechanical form, thats will be dynamic range. Now i see only big white "dots" at flasher area.... "Washed out" can be due to other cameras light control settings....

[thewireguys 3]

http://www.astropix.com/PFA/SAMPLE1/SAMPLE1.HTM Edited August 26, 2010 by Guest

[shropna 0]

http://www.astropix.com/PFA/SAMPLE1/SAMPLE1.HTM

Thats explain, what i mean

[rory 0]

I agree Sanyo has a nice image but your images did not show anything with dynamic range.

No, you not right. Just compare "day" pictures, and look, for example to cars roofs and windscreens. On Sanyo image everything ok, on Mobotix - that parts are over-lighted, no details. That means, dynamic range of mobotix is worse....

On your film i cant see any info about "better" dynamic range, just lamps flashing, and that areas are over-lighted (no information about different red and blue colors, looks just like a white flashers....

Better examples, what i mean:

 

Maybe the iris is just open more on that camera?

Also its a different placement, slightly from other one, perhaps the sun was out more also?

[buellwinkle 0]

You can't really compare two cameras at night without knowing the shutter speed. Heck, Arecont in Midnight mode is fantastic a long as a snail doesn't enter the picture or a small breeze blurs it all.

 

Also, the contrast can be turned up/down to achieve images with similar contrast. So it's a trade off, the Sanyo has poorer contrast providing for washed out blacks in return for dimmer, less blown out whites. You can always turn down the contrast on the Mobotix.

 

From my experience, Mobotix does really well in harsh lighting situations, but the metering is usually spot on so it doesn't darken the surrounding area. Also Mobotix allows you to have metering areas so you can sometimes avoid it having to meter on a known bright spot.

[rory 0]

You can't really compare two cameras at night without knowing the shutter speed. Heck, Arecont in Midnight mode is fantastic a long as a snail doesn't enter the picture or a small breeze

IP cameras perhaps .. but regular CCTV cameras thats hardly a concern, unless it is a DSS camera but when testing that kind of feature has to be disabled.

[shropna 0]

 

From my experience, Mobotix does really well in harsh lighting situations, but the metering is usually spot on so it doesn't darken the surrounding area.

Thats the main You can setup Mobotix at neccesary situation, but cannot setup to light changes.....