Slight Distortion in Video Feed

[MasterVision_Tech 0]

Yes we did try a know working camera with the same results....personally, I think it was either the cat5 or the baluns.

[MasterVision_Tech 0]

Figured I'd just keep this in the same post since I'm having the same issue but with a different system. Here's the setup..

 

Problem: varying degrees of horizontal video bar distortion on all cameras

 

16 channel AC power supply

16 channel DV

2 different types of cameras but all getting the same problem with the bars.

 

I have never had this problem using a dc power supply but this is my second time using an AC power supply and both times I am having this issue. I've read different articles about ground loop isolation and ive tried a few of the steps but it seems as if nothing works.

 

I have used a different camera and get the same problem.

I tried disconnecting all but one camera and it shows faint lines but on some of the cameras the lines actually seem to get better when I connect more cameras and worse when certain cameras are removed.

Tried connecting the power supply into a different outlet with no results.

I believe that the DVR and Power supply are on the same local power.

 

I really don't know what else to try...this is one of my bigger jobs and I really cant mess this up at this point. Has anyone had any success with some of the power conditioners that are available commercially? I wanted to give one a shot but these things are pretty expensive.

 

Any kind of help,thoughts, suggestions, comments or flames are appreciated.

[Soundy 1]

Try lifting the ground on the DVR and/or camera power supply. If it's a standard three-prong, U-ground type cord, you can just snip the ground lug off... or get a ground-lift plug like this:

 

 

(The metal tab is designed to attach to the cover-plate screw on a gang outlet, to provide a ground for a two-prong socket... just bend it out of the way to provide a ground lift).

 

If you find more than one device need to be lifted, get a cheap power bar and snip the ground lug off its plug, then plug those devices into that.

[rory 0]

also try isolating the camera power, plug them in with individual power supplies and see if that helps.

Alrtronix sell Isolated 24VAC 16 channel power supplies.

What type of cable are you using?

If you plug a camera in direct to a monitor bypassing the DVR what happens?

[MasterVision_Tech 0]

@Soundy - I am on the way back to the site to see about lifting the ground

 

@rory - I am probably going to try that next...it's a little incoveient because every camera has a converter on it to transfer the 24v AC to 12V DC. Standard sieamese cable is being used for all cameras..100% copper. And I am viewing the cams off the network. It's worse if I use the monitor off the dvr

 

 

 

I also picked up a panamax line conditioner (m4300-pm) to see if that helps

[MasterVision_Tech 0]

0 for 3 on resolving the problem....

 

Tried lifting the ground on the dvr, then on the cameras, then on both...nothing

 

Even the power conditioner was no help...I thought for sure that would help. I'll try to put a filter on one of the cameras to see if that helps and I'm also going to pick upa 12v battery to see if it's a power or video loop problem. Any other tips?

[rory 0]

Your going 24VAC then converting to 12VDC? Perhaps thats the problem?

[MasterVision_Tech 0]

It's possible but I don't see how....I mean the cameras are still geting the same voltage and amperage at the end point. Why would it matter how it's done?

 

Plus that wouldn't explain the reson I had the problems on the original installation. Those cameras accepted 24v and 12v ...

[Soundy 1]

Your going 24VAC then converting to 12VDC? Perhaps thats the problem?

Doubt that... dual-voltage cameras would just be making that same conversion internally.

 

Plus that wouldn't explain the reson I had the problems on the original installation. Those cameras accepted 24v and 12v ...

Is this a different site now?

 

Hmm, different sites, different cameras, different DVRs... same problem? Well, the only common denominator here is YOU!

[rory 0]

Your going 24VAC then converting to 12VDC? Perhaps thats the problem?

Doubt that... dual-voltage cameras would just be making that same conversion internally.

Yeah but these are just cheap eclipse cctv cameras? Or different site different cameras? Im thinking maybe its a mix of the converter used along with the camera, either way its not a normal way to do it so it has to be added to the list of suspects for the lines. I wish him luck, if its a distance issue then the cameras should be 24VAC one time (or dual voltage such as the CNB 24VFs), if its not a distance issue then power them all with 12VDC if they are 12VDC cameras or use 24VAC cameras, that would make the most sense IMO. Should check the cable also to make sure it is not run near any high voltage.

[MasterVision_Tech 0]

Hmm, different sites, different cameras, different DVRs... same problem? Well, the only common denominator here is YOU!

 

 

I am a professional !!! lol I do not not what could be the issue....the only time I have ever had this problem is when using the 24 AC for power....I do not know what the issue could be.

 

@ Rory - Yes they are the eclipse cameras but when I say that I have never had this issue before except when using 24AC power and in these two warehouses....I will check the lines today to make sure that they do not run across any high voltage, but trust me when I tell you that I made sure they didn't because I didn't want to see this problem again in this installation.

[rory 0]

@ Rory - Yes they are the eclipse cameras but when I say that I have never had this issue before except when using 24AC power and in these two warehouses....I will check the lines today to make sure that they do not run across any high voltage, but trust me when I tell you that I made sure they didn't because I didn't want to see this problem again in this installation.

yeah but you were using 12VDC .. the power boards on these cameras are just really cheap. Actually so are the video boards but anyway .. it doesnt take much to make a cheap camera go out of whack .. i use cheap cameras all the time .. trust me .. there is a big diff between a cheap one and a higher quality one when it comes to what you can do to it. Not saying that is the issue here but worth considering.

[MasterVision_Tech 0]

@ Rory - Yes they are the eclipse cameras but when I say that I have never had this issue before except when using 24AC power and in these two warehouses....I will check the lines today to make sure that they do not run across any high voltage, but trust me when I tell you that I made sure they didn't because I didn't want to see this problem again in this installation.

yeah but you were using 12VDC .. the power boards on these cameras are just really cheap. Actually so are the video boards but anyway .. it doesnt take much to make a cheap camera go out of whack .. i use cheap cameras all the time .. trust me .. there is a big diff between a cheap one and a higher quality one when it comes to what you can do to it. Not saying that is the issue here but worth considering.

 

IDK Rory, some of the Eclipse cameras are pretty good quality cameras. Yes they may not be Pelco, Panasonic, or Bosch but I do believe they hold their own. They do sell cheaper cameras, but some of their high end products are comparable to most of the top brand names.

 

I like using the Eclipse products because they are local to me, I do not have to wait for shipping, and the support I recieved from their staff is remarkable. I am open and do sell other brands, but Eclipse is my first and foremost choice.

 

@ Everyone else - I was able to get the problem resolved, but I was only able to do so by switching back to DC power for the cameras. Im sure my longest run was maybe 500FT but the camera functioned well and showed no problems (IR's activated - 3 days up so far with no other issues).

 

Over the course of the past two projects, I would now consider my self a "ground loop specialist". I will not run another AC camera again unless it is residential / commercial application with only 120V standard. Any other voltage variations and your asking for trouble. This is just in what I have been through and personally if I get the chance to do another warehouse project, It will be split DC at one end and another DC power box at the other end. I tried a number of things to get the AC working without the distortion but nothing was effective.

 

Thanks Rory and Soundy for the suggestions. The cameras kept sharing a ground with the building even though there were not connected to any metal on the building. I was able to get 1 or 2 up and running on AC power connected to different DVR's but as soon as I connected two or more AC powered cameras on the same DVR, the picture went to $hit. Tried lifting the grounds but I came to realize that they were being grounded through the DVR itself. Line isolators and power conditioners on the equipment were no help to the problem. And honestly, I think some of the problem was related to the power supply but I did not have a different brand to be able to test that theory at the time.

 

If you guys have had success with another brand, in a warehouse, with AC voltage with no problems, please let me know. I am open to using someone else if the situation calls for it in the future.

 

Thanks,

Josh

[rory 0]

IDK Rory, some of the Eclipse cameras are pretty good quality cameras. Yes they may not be Pelco, Panasonic, or Bosch but I do believe they hold their own. They do sell cheaper cameras, but some of their high end products are comparable to most of the top brand names.

 

I like using the Eclipse products because they are local to me, I do not have to wait for shipping, and the support I recieved from their staff is remarkable. I am open and do sell other brands, but Eclipse is my first and foremost choice.

 

I know eclipse well, we were a main distributor for them here for years, well not me directly but people I do work for and I test everything they bring in or service it at some point. Dont get me wrong, not saying ALL their cameras are garbage, not at all, but they have a few now that are, as do most OEM resellers. I myself have the 596 and 598hims here at my place, they were there best models IMO for cost to quality level. Thing is that was fine several years ago, but now with the cost of KT&C and CNB and their products technically blowing away the Eclipse models for alot less .. makes sense to go with the better and less expensive product .. for us anyway.

 

For example almost all the eclipse vandal domes are outdated, they also use the horrid panasonic chip in most of them not to mention the lack of a true 360 degree gimble like with the CNBs, and the ones that do or have a Sony CCD are typically double the cost of the CNBs - Ive used alot of the eclipse vandal domes BTW, a couple are good no question about it, but since finding CNB I never looked back. Although I mentioned CNB and KT&C, there is still not one brand that covers all applications. For example, I would even recommend the Eclipse ECL-555E for Indoor only apps that want a budget camera with IR - I say indoors only as with all budget cameras in that price range the backlighting is awful and turret domes dont have a great history with exposure to rain. Some of their other newer IR Bullets though weve tested and had to give or throw away as the quality was so bad and the IR next to useless, not to mention the ones Ive come across in the field from other installer jobs, and these were the expensive ones. Thing is with Eclipse and other OEM sellers they change the brands and models alot, so even if something sucks today, they may replace it tomorrow. As they are local to you, then that might be a good thing then you can also give them some direct feedback.

 

BTW a couple guys left eclipse, one went to work with Vsionis, the other for XTSVideo - both in florida. Vsionis actually have a couple good cameras I could recommend, cheap ones but good for the price. XTSvideo have the Dahua DVRs, cant beat the price for what it has .. i have one here testing since the night before. On that note I have a couple viteks with amazing specs but they came bad, just received the replacements, if they work then they will probably be my newest choice for a true day night IR bullet at least for areas that need alot of IR, they really do outstanding in that area, but CNB still has the best price on a True Day night bullet comparable to the 598HIM but at a much lower cost and a better overall picture.