Help choosing a hybrid NVR

[tds1 0]

Tds1:

 

I was not referring to building a pc from scratch. I agree with you, that's a PITA. A lot of guys still do it but I personally think its a waste of time... Esp when I can get a name brand prebuilt pc with LCD shipped for less than $700. And that comes with a single warranty... no calling random parts manufacturers for support hoping they won't blame it on the other manufacturer...

Unless space is very limited and power consumption is a problm, I don't think it makes sense to buy standalones. Standalones are a good bang for the buck if you need 4 or 8 all analog channels or 4 ch pure NVR.

Anything outside of that criteria just does not make sense to me. At least in today's market.... that will probably change tomorrow.

 

Thanks. All the advice is much appreciated! Hopefully this thread may help others as well.

 

Bpzle,

Well, I will admit that power consumption factors in a bit for me. A PC with LCD will use about $175 in electricity a year, compared to about $35 for some of the standalone units. It's not a huge deal, but does add up. Been reading some other threads, and doing more research. So far the options are

1) Exacqvision EL-S

2) Averdigi EH5216H

3) PC based hybrid card

 

So, I have come up with one other option, which may allow me to accomplish everything in my price range. That would be to get a QNAP VS-2012 Viostar NVR, and attach an encoder for the analog cameras. The QNAP calculator looks like it can handle 8 1.3 MP cameras with its ATOM based processor, and seems to have most of the options that I would use. Plus, it's well in budget, allowing more money to spend on the cameras. Also, I can put in my own drives, has low power consumption, and will be less costly to upgrade in the future. I don't know how good the software interface is compared to the other options, but I just read through the manual and it seems pretty simple to configure. My Hypothetical system would look like this:

 

1) QNAP VS-2012 Viostar NVR

2) Inexpensive 4 channel encoder for analog cameras

3) 8 cameras total, composed of:

2 Arecont Day/Night cameras (either 1355 or 3155)

2 less expensive 1.3 MP IP cameras (? Acti)

4 CNB Mona Lisa Day/Night dome cameras

 

What does everyone think?

[bpzle 0]

Bpzle,

Well, I will admit that power consumption factors in a bit for me. A PC with LCD will use about $175 in electricity a year, compared to about $35 for some of the standalone units. It's not a huge deal, but does add up.

How did you get these numbers? There's a whoooole lot of variables to be able to easily and accurately throw around numbers like that...

 

1) QNAP VS-2012 Viostar NVR

2) Inexpensive 4 channel encoder for analog cameras

3) 8 cameras total, composed of:

2 Arecont Day/Night cameras (either 1355 or 3155)

2 less expensive 1.3 MP IP cameras (? Acti)

4 CNB Mona Lisa Day/Night dome cameras

 

What does everyone think?

 

Well, that's smart to get more channels than you think you need. Maxing out a system from day 1 is never a good idea!

 

With the QNAP, are you OK with no local display? Video is accessed via another computer on the network.

 

What "inexpensive" encoders have you looked at? They can get pretty pricey...

 

As far as camera recommendation, that's pretty hard to say without knowing more about your application. Cameras are just tools, there is no single tool for every job. The trick is knowing which one to grab...

[RomanO 0]

Tds1:

 

I was not referring to building a pc from scratch. I agree with you, that's a PITA. A lot of guys still do it but I personally think its a waste of time... Esp when I can get a name brand prebuilt pc with LCD shipped for less than $700. And that comes with a single warranty... no calling random parts manufacturers for support hoping they won't blame it on the other manufacturer...

Unless space is very limited and power consumption is a problm, I don't think it makes sense to buy standalones. Standalones are a good bang for the buck if you need 4 or 8 all analog channels or 4 ch pure NVR.

Anything outside of that criteria just does not make sense to me. At least in today's market.... that will probably change tomorrow.

 

Thanks. All the advice is much appreciated! Hopefully this thread may help others as well.

 

Bpzle,

Well, I will admit that power consumption factors in a bit for me. A PC with LCD will use about $175 in electricity a year, compared to about $35 for some of the standalone units. It's not a huge deal, but does add up. Been reading some other threads, and doing more research. So far the options are

1) Exacqvision EL-S

2) Averdigi EH5216H

3) PC based hybrid card

 

So, I have come up with one other option, which may allow me to accomplish everything in my price range. That would be to get a QNAP VS-2012 Viostar NVR, and attach an encoder for the analog cameras. The QNAP calculator looks like it can handle 8 1.3 MP cameras with its ATOM based processor, and seems to have most of the options that I would use. Plus, it's well in budget, allowing more money to spend on the cameras. Also, I can put in my own drives, has low power consumption, and will be less costly to upgrade in the future. I don't know how good the software interface is compared to the other options, but I just read through the manual and it seems pretty simple to configure. My Hypothetical system would look like this:

 

1) QNAP VS-2012 Viostar NVR

2) Inexpensive 4 channel encoder for analog cameras

3) 8 cameras total, composed of:

2 Arecont Day/Night cameras (either 1355 or 3155)

2 less expensive 1.3 MP IP cameras (? Acti)

4 CNB Mona Lisa Day/Night dome cameras

 

What does everyone think?

 

I think, you will spend more than $175 on electricity, to make this work

[rory 0]

Tds1:

I was not referring to building a pc from scratch. I agree with you, that's a PITA. A lot of guys still do it but I personally think its a waste of time... Esp when I can get a name brand prebuilt pc with LCD shipped for less than $700.

 

but but but .. i can build one for 1/4 the price

 

Seriously though its always better to build your own, the name brands can be a PITA as they arent designed for a DVR and most of them have a customized limited BIOS. figure can build a rock solid Pentium Dual Core or Core 2 duo for $250-$350 easy, depending on the case if a rack mounted is required could run $350-450 with 2TB drives included and possibly a Quad Core. Also when you build it you can choose the type of case you really want, or need for the application. All that is first cost ofcourse. So yes your labour would bring it up a bit but if you are selling alot of them you could prebuild them and once its the same PC it would be a breeze after a couple of them.

[rory 0]

A PC with LCD will use about $175 in electricity a year, compared to about $35 for some of the standalone units.

 

Really depends how you build the PC.

Use a smaller PSU with a single adjustable fan or fanless cooling, 1 stick of Ram, Slower CPU with speedstep, no optical drive, 1 x HDD (eg. 2TB), Onboard Video, MicroAtx board, Only use extra fans if they are really needed for the location, stripped down desktop OS (less processing means less heat and less current draw), LED instead of LCD, etc.

[bpzle 0]

Tds1:

I was not referring to building a pc from scratch. I agree with you, that's a PITA. A lot of guys still do it but I personally think its a waste of time... Esp when I can get a name brand prebuilt pc with LCD shipped for less than $700.

 

but but but .. i can build one for 1/4 the price

 

You can build a pc and get a lcd monitor for $175 with shipping?! damn! I think my budget would be blown on a OS and LCD alone!

 

I think when its all said and done, not much savings, Unless you regularly build PCs, have a good shopping list, and have the time to slap things together... time is money.

 

What in bios have I been missing out on?

[RomanO 0]

Tds1:

I was not referring to building a pc from scratch. I agree with you, that's a PITA. A lot of guys still do it but I personally think its a waste of time... Esp when I can get a name brand prebuilt pc with LCD shipped for less than $700.

 

but but but .. i can build one for 1/4 the price

 

Seriously though its always better to build your own, the name brands can be a PITA as they arent designed for a DVR and most of them have a customized limited BIOS. figure can build a rock solid Pentium Dual Core or Core 2 duo for $250-$350 easy, depending on the case if a rack mounted is required could run $350-450 with 2TB drives included and possibly a Quad Core. Also when you build it you can choose the type of case you really want, or need for the application. All that is first cost ofcourse. So yes your labour would bring it up a bit but if you are selling alot of them you could prebuild them and once its the same PC it would be a breeze after a couple of them.

 

Or... Whatever PC you can get, more powerful - better. Buy all cameras the same brand.

ACTI for example or Arecont. Use their software. Usually it is free, or inexpensive.

Call them. Now they have headache, not you

[rory 0]

You can build a pc and get a lcd monitor for $175 with shipping?! damn! I think my budget would be blown on a OS and LCD alone!

 

I think when its all said and done, not much savings, Unless you regularly build PCs, have a good shopping list, and have the time to slap things together... time is money.

 

What in bios have I been missing out on?

 

LOL no not with an LCD, tell them use the remote software

 

Well Ive priced it, I easily save at least $300 which is alot when we have customs and shipping here. But more importantly is I get what I want, or need, such as, I dont need a DVD, 1 stick of ram only, 1 HDD (brand names still need an HD upgrade to say a 1 or 2 TB), onboard video, Power Supply of my choice, Whatever case I need for the application .. things like that .. also I have room inside to change or upgrade. I agree these days it CAN be a PITA with the ever changing and discontinuing of PC parts .. but still it is better if we were to forget about that part of it ..

 

As for the BIOS, many of them dont let you customize or disable certain things such as their network boot options and other hardware, or lack more advanced health options, really it is a long list I cant go into right now, but more importantly is the way they manage the hardware which can cause slow boot times and issues with hardware drivers, overall lessening the stability of the end product. I use both, I setup DVRs with brand names all the time too, I wont turn down money, I dont LIKE to do it, but money is money and when someone brings me a Dell or whatever I work with it as best I can - I can tell you it takes me much longer to get it setup properly than it does a proper system I would build from scratch using parts I select. Ive had brand names for example where you setup the BIOS then a couple weeks later it just resets to defaults, the cases and hardware support tend to be the biggest issues though, well along with the cost.

 

anyway .. just saying .. i cant sleep at night knowing something isnt done right

wait i dont sleep at night anyway ..

[rory 0]

Or... Whatever PC you can get, more powerful - better. Buy all cameras the same brand.

ACTI for example or Arecont. Use their software. Usually it is free, or inexpensive.

Call them. Now they have headache, not you

 

Now im lost

 

Well less headache would be color KT&C bullet cameras, easiest thing to install, slap in a $200 stand alone DVR and walk away .. paid in full

[RomanO 0]

Or... Whatever PC you can get, more powerful - better. Buy all cameras the same brand.

ACTI for example or Arecont. Use their software. Usually it is free, or inexpensive.

Call them. Now they have headache, not you

 

Now im lost

 

Well less headache would be color KT&C bullet cameras, easiest thing to install, slap in a $200 stand alone DVR and walk away .. paid in full

 

We were talking about megapixel ip cameras

[rory 0]

 

We were talking about megapixel ip cameras

 

Perhaps, but i was talking about less headache

[tds1 0]

The EL-S box is also Atom based. I have built many Atom based Exacq NVRs and I would recommend you use them for servers only not clients. You need better video cards with the Atom boards for clients

 

Could you elaborate a bit more on this? Is a Zotac PC as an Atom based Exacq NVR a good choice? It looks like they have Dual Core Atom with ION graphics.

 

Would a system like that support the same IP cameras that the Exacqvision EL-S supports? How would its ability to handle multiple MP cameras compare to the EL-S? It seems like it could be a more reasonable way to use Exacq, but I would lose the hybrid ability.

 

Would you setup the Zotac with Linux? Haven't used Linux before, so hopefully I could setup OS and install Exacq.

 

This would be for server only. I have an iCore7 as client.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

The EL-S box is also Atom based. I have built many Atom based Exacq NVRs and I would recommend you use them for servers only not clients. You need better video cards with the Atom boards for clients

 

Could you elaborate a bit more on this? Is a Zotac PC as an Atom based Exacq NVR a good choice? It looks like they have Dual Core Atom with ION graphics.

 

Would a system like that support the same IP cameras that the Exacqvision EL-S supports? How would its ability to handle multiple MP cameras compare to the EL-S? It seems like it could be a more reasonable way to use Exacq, but I would lose the hybrid ability.

 

Would you setup the Zotac with Linux? Haven't used Linux before, so hopefully I could setup OS and install Exacq.

 

This would be for server only. I have an iCore7 as client.

 

Yup. I can build you one with Linux or Windows and you can use analog camera with encoders if you would like. If you haven't used Linux you will have a large learning curve. I have had multiple MP cameras and analog with encoders on Atom boards. You don't need the Zotac unless you are using it as a client.

[bpzle 0]

Just to clarify:

 

A "server" is something we (usually) refer to in the CCTV industry as a service than runs, usually in the background, and it simply stores the video it's capturing and does not process any information to display (except for maybe simple mobile clients).

 

A "client" is what decodes the stored data and displays both live and archived footage. Hence the need for a beefy video memory and (especially if h.264 is used) processing power.

 

Some software like Avermedia or Nuuo run simultaneously. They are one program in the same, thus why they require beefier specs.

 

While thewireguys is the resident Exacq expert on the forum and can tell you from certain experience, I would suspect the Atom anything would not be recommended for anything other than a simple server.

 

If this is a residential job, I've found most home owners prefer having a constant video feed easily accessible. Firing up a laptop or desktop every time the doorbell rings is not ideal. Having a monitor within arms reach to easily turn on OR splitting the video (countless ways to do this) to the TVs is what most prefer.

 

If it's commercial without security guards or a second residence, then usually instant live viewing locally is not so important.

 

How much does that i7 cost per year to run?

Edited October 4, 2010 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

While thewireguys is the resident Exacq expert on the forum and can tell you from certain experience, I would suspect the Atom for anything would not be recommended for anything other than a simple server.

 

If by simple you mean server only then yes. But like I said the EX-L can do 24 IP cameras on the Atom and I have tested 10 MP cameras without the Atom breaking a sweat.

[bpzle 0]

Actually that's just what I meant... Funny, in my head I was thinking less than 20 IP cams (low frame) or less than 10 MP cams. Close enough

[ak357 0]

The EL-S box is also Atom based. I have built many Atom based Exacq NVRs and I would recommend you use them for servers only not clients. You need better video cards with the Atom boards for clients

 

Could you elaborate a bit more on this? Is a Zotac PC as an Atom based Exacq NVR a good choice? It looks like they have Dual Core Atom with ION graphics.

 

Would a system like that support the same IP cameras that the Exacqvision EL-S supports? How would its ability to handle multiple MP cameras compare to the EL-S? It seems like it could be a more reasonable way to use Exacq, but I would lose the hybrid ability.

 

This would be for server only. I have an iCore7 as client.

 

If u can afford Exacq Server

stay away from analog cams

Use I7 as Server and Client ( or Server only )

that what my customer doing for now

here is few shots from recent residential job

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn217/ak357/Garage2.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn217/ak357/OmarWindow.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn217/ak357/Deck.jpg

[thewireguys 3]

Actually that's just what I meant... Funny, in my head I was thinking less than 20 IP cams (low frame) or less than 10 MP cams. Close enough

 

As a client yes but server no problem with h.264, high res, and high frame rates. I have one Atom server/client Exacq Zotac setup with 1 Arecont 8185 and 2 Arecont 1305 6FPS h.264 with Windows and the customer is very happy. Is it as fast as exacq on quad core's no but it works and it is cheap. But I would only use the Atom as a server from this point out unless the client was only concerned with power consumption.

 

Exacq on Atom with 24 IP cameras no problem if you want client/server then get i3/i5/i7. Most of my customers already have computers that they will use for clients so there is no point getting a client/server setup for them.

[rory 0]

If by simple you mean server only then yes. But like I said the EX-L can do 24 IP cameras on the Atom and I have tested 10 MP cameras without the Atom breaking a sweat.

What was the CPU usage at?

Ive tried HD video on several atom PCs and it was not good results.

[thewireguys 3]

If by simple you mean server only then yes. But like I said the EX-L can do 24 IP cameras on the Atom and I have tested 10 MP cameras without the Atom breaking a sweat.

What was the CPU usage at?

Ive tried HD video on several atom PCs and it was not good results.

 

Server only CPU is about 5%

[rory 0]

If by simple you mean server only then yes. But like I said the EX-L can do 24 IP cameras on the Atom and I have tested 10 MP cameras without the Atom breaking a sweat.

What was the CPU usage at?

Ive tried HD video on several atom PCs and it was not good results.

 

Server only CPU is about 5%

Yeah I meant with live video running on it though, so with Exacq that would be the client i guess.

[ak357 0]

If by simple you mean server only then yes. But like I said the EX-L can do 24 IP cameras on the Atom and I have tested 10 MP cameras without the Atom breaking a sweat.

What was the CPU usage at?

Ive tried HD video on several atom PCs and it was not good results.

 

Rory may be u missing something

IP Server only collect and record streams

it does not use CPU heavy

The "fun" begins when u want to

decode and playback

that when we use client

[ak357 0]

If by simple you mean server only then yes. But like I said the EX-L can do 24 IP cameras on the Atom and I have tested 10 MP cameras without the Atom breaking a sweat.

What was the CPU usage at?

Ive tried HD video on several atom PCs and it was not good results.

 

I am doing 30-40 % at school runing 30 mega pix cams

and Exacq

 

they have I5 server and separate Client

Edited October 4, 2010 by Guest

[rory 0]

Rory may be u missing something

IP Server only collect and record streams

it does not use CPU heavy

The "fun" begins when u want to

decode and playback

that when we use client

 

Im not missing anything, thanks. It was already clarified that I was talking about viewing live video on the server as we do with all other CCTV systems. As mentioned most clients dont want to have to turn on another computer at the location to view the live video.

[thewireguys 3]

Rory may be u missing something

IP Server only collect and record streams

it does not use CPU heavy

The "fun" begins when u want to

decode and playback

that when we use client

 

Im not missing anything, thanks. It was already clarified that I was talking about viewing live video on the server as we do with all other CCTV systems. As mentioned most clients dont want to have to turn on another computer at the location to view the live video.

 

Rory I must disagree. I put the server in the IT closest with the rest of the servers/networking gear and the customer uses the computer on his/her desk that they already use, as the Exacq client. You don't need a dedicated client machine unless you your doing a video wall.