Amusing price difference

[jrmymllr 0]

I'm fairly new to security stuff and am just doing this for my house. Anyway I ran across something that might not be so surprising to most regulars here, but I thought it was shocking.

 

I was looking at a sale paper and noticed they had a 4 channel DVR4-2500 Swann DVR for US$450. I wondered how it compared to my Q-see QSDR04RTC I got for $150. So I started checking it out.

 

First, several sources were selling the Swann for $450 so that confirms the price. I get on Swann's website and looked at the photos and downloaded the manual. The rear jack arrangement is identical to mine except it has one extra USB port, probably to make up for the lack of the one on front of the Q-see.

 

The specs are identical.

The user interface is identical.

The remote PC app is identical, even with the same name ("D9 Viewer")

 

The only real difference is the Swann has a 500GB instead of 320, and the Swann comes with 4 RCA-to-BNC adapters. All this for $300 more. Or more like $240 if you don't get the super deal on the Q-See.

 

I don't find it surprising this hardware is shared between multiple brands. What I find surprising is the price difference!

 

The Swann, does however, have a much better users manual, but that's a free download

[Soundy 1]

I don't find it surprising this hardware is shared between multiple brands. What I find surprising is the price difference!

How's the support on either? Can you call and get a live tech 25/7 with the Swann? How about with the Q-See? Things like that commonly account for such price differences - it's easy to charge less when you don't have anything in place to back it up.

 

The Swann, does however, have a much better users manual, but that's a free download

Well, you know what they say about user manuals: documentation is like sex - when it's good, it's really good, but when it's bad, it's still better than nothing.

[jrmymllr 0]

I don't find it surprising this hardware is shared between multiple brands. What I find surprising is the price difference!

How's the support on either? Can you call and get a live tech 25/7 with the Swann? How about with the Q-See? Things like that commonly account for such price differences - it's easy to charge less when you don't have anything in place to back it up.

 

Yes, you are correct, and the Swann manual is a good first example. However I'd be hard pressed to spend $240-300 more for good support on a $150-210 item. That's just me though, but I'm maybe more comfortable with technology than some.

[rory 0]

So, I can get a DVR for $55 that blows both of them away!

And for $100 more than the Q-see I can get a 16 channel

[rory 0]

Yes, you are correct, and the Swann manual is a good first example. However I'd be hard pressed to spend $240-300 more for good support on a $150-210 item. That's just me though, but I'm maybe more comfortable with technology than some.

 

That Q-see retails for $269 from online stores.

The $450 price I see is Home Depot.

[jrmymllr 0]

Yes, you are correct, and the Swann manual is a good first example. However I'd be hard pressed to spend $240-300 more for good support on a $150-210 item. That's just me though, but I'm maybe more comfortable with technology than some.

 

That Q-see retails for $269 from online stores.

The $450 price I see is Home Depot.

 

 

The QSDR04RTC-320 I got for $150 + $8 shipping from compusa.com. Other sources have it for considerably more so I'm not sure how they were so much cheaper (I believe they are out of them now).

[rory 0]

 

The QSDR04RTC-320 I got for $150 + $8 shipping from compusa.com. Other sources have it for considerably more so I'm not sure how they were so much cheaper (I believe they are out of them now).

 

Probably was just on sale.

But to be honest I wouldnt touch either of those 2 DVRs .. well not for a client anyway. I can get some in that same price range that blow both away. Except whatever I get the customs costs half the cost of the DVR cost + approx $100 Shipping together so .. ouch

 

That said, if you have any sample images or videos from it, it would be appreciated.

[Soundy 1]

If I was actually going to sell a client something like that (assuming the insisted against my advice), I'd probably mark it up at least 300% as well... because I KNOW I'll be getting called on soon to deal with the problems. And I know the client will want me to honor the warranty on it, so for the first year, those calls will be on my dime.

 

The markup is intended to compensate for those easily-forseen circumstances... as well as for the headache of the inevitable calls where the client complains about the crappy video and lousy feature set and how difficult the thing is to operate...

[jrmymllr 0]

 

The QSDR04RTC-320 I got for $150 + $8 shipping from compusa.com. Other sources have it for considerably more so I'm not sure how they were so much cheaper (I believe they are out of them now).

 

Probably was just on sale.

But to be honest I wouldnt touch either of those 2 DVRs .. well not for a client anyway. I can get some in that same price range that blow both away. Except whatever I get the customs costs half the cost of the DVR cost + approx $100 Shipping together so .. ouch

 

That said, if you have any sample images or videos from it, it would be appreciated.

 

I'm just curious, what models in that price range are you referring to?

 

I can get some images, but my camera location is a bigger problem now, despite it being a good camera. It's looking through a window.

[rory 0]

 

I'm just curious, what models in that price range are you referring to?

 

I can get some images, but my camera location is a bigger problem now, despite it being a good camera. It's looking through a window.

XTSvideo.. an OEM distributor out of Florida USA, they use the same manufacturer as the Intellicam DVRs, made by Dahua Security in China. CNB, also sold by other companies but with different cases such as Vsionis in the US, made by Indigo out of Korea. Thats just a couple I could recommend right now but there are others. Im testing an XTvideo DVR as we speak. You guys in the US are so lucky, we paid almost double the cost of the DVR to land it here due to expensive customs charges and international shipping!

 

If for example you were feeling up to ordering from China you could check one of the recent DVRs from Cantonk (they are on the forum), its so cheap its not funny .. but they have great specs, has USB Mouse, all mobile phone's support, remote setup, etc. I tested their remote video and I am impressed by the speed of their CMS app's GUI and also their browser software - so many of todays software applications are made on super computers and they tend to forget the small guys that cant afford the latest to run their remote video apps! About 1/4 the price of the others, plus shipping ofcourse LOL.

 

I should stop now .. but .. also there is a company called PI manufacturing out of California USA,really inexpensive 4 and 16 channel DVRs with hard drives included and Remote Desktop software as well as a claimed CMS. Nice remote video with quality/bandwidth options on the fly.

 

ive used the big players already, GE, Avermedia, AvTech, etc, at least in the 2 I mentioned first they do alot more for either the same cost or much less - in both cases the quality of local and remote is also exceptional.

 

If you havent guessed already, although I do still judge a DVR based on its local features and recording quality, if the remote video sucks I wont go near it.

[jrmymllr 0]

XTSvideo.. an OEM distributor out of Florida USA, they use the same manufacturer as the Intellicam DVRs, made by Dahua Security in China. CNB, also sold by other companies but with different cases such as Vsionis in the US, made by Indigo out of Korea. Thats just a couple I could recommend right now but there are others. Im testing an XTvideo DVR as we speak. You guys in the US are so lucky, we paid almost double the cost of the DVR to land it here due to expensive customs charges and international shipping!

 

If for example you were feeling up to ordering from China you could check one of the recent DVRs from Cantonk (they are on the forum), its so cheap its not funny .. but they have great specs, has USB Mouse, all mobile phone's support, remote setup, etc. I tested their remote video and I am impressed by the speed of their CMS app's GUI and also their browser software - so many of todays software applications are made on super computers and they tend to forget the small guys that cant afford the latest to run their remote video apps! About 1/4 the price of the others, plus shipping ofcourse LOL.

 

I should stop now .. but .. also there is a company called PI manufacturing out of California USA,really inexpensive 4 and 16 channel DVRs with hard drives included and Remote Desktop software as well as a claimed CMS. Nice remote video with quality/bandwidth options on the fly.

 

ive used the big players already, GE, Avermedia, AvTech, etc, at least in the 2 I mentioned first they do alot more for either the same cost or much less - in both cases the quality of local and remote is also exceptional.

 

If you havent guessed already, although I do still judge a DVR based on its local features and recording quality, if the remote video sucks I wont go near it.

 

Good info. Although, the cheapest XTS I could find was about $400. Couldn't find any prices for Cantonk. A 4 channel from PI is $185 which is very comparable in price to the Q-see, and the user interface looks nicer. They have a live demo but it wouldn't accept the login.

[rory 0]

Good info. Although, the cheapest XTS I could find was about $400. Couldn't find any prices for Cantonk. A 4 channel from PI is $185 which is very comparable in price to the Q-see, and the user interface looks nicer. They have a live demo but it wouldn't accept the login.

Yes XTS sells to distributors only, you would search down the Intellicam model instead which though more expensive than XTS (at least at retail) is still almost half that price. Cantonk is a manufacturer in China, so would need to contact them there

 

BTW PI's comes with a large harddrive included which is nice. Login should work but I havent tested it in a few weeks.

[coolspot 0]

I noticed that too - I have the same unit as above in the screen shot and it seems to be sold by 30 - 40 different vendors, all with different prices. Some vendors include iCatch, Rayvision, AmbeaTech, iTechView, SecuSafe, ArcVision, KPF, etc.

 

All units share the same firmware!

 

Only difference is the case layout, number of hard drives, and outputs.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Guest

[rory 0]

Yes there are really no DVR manufacturers in the US (other than the large players but even those build overseas), so almost anything you find there, even if its a DVR card inside a PC, comes from Asia and can in most cases be OEMd by just about anyone. Where the difference in price comes into play is the amount of units they purchase, the more they buy the cheaper they get them for, the more turnover on the product, the cheaper they can sell it for, so some will be cheaper than others. Also some may give more tech support or warranty and charge more for that, or customize the software more or even write their own software for it, and also charge more for that. Some large companies though like GE, Bosch etc will have their own manufacturing overseas specially for their products.

[SEANHAWG 1]

If for example you were feeling up to ordering from China you could check one of the recent DVRs from Cantonk (they are on the forum), its so cheap its not funny .. but they have great specs, has USB Mouse, all mobile phone's support, remote setup, etc. I tested their remote video and I am impressed by the speed of their CMS app's GUI and also their browser software - so many of todays software applications are made on super computers and they tend to forget the small guys that cant afford the latest to run their remote video apps! About 1/4 the price of the others, plus shipping ofcourse LOL.

 

I bought the Cantonk 4 channel DVR and didnt like it. I guess for the price it wasnt bad but it had several features that I didnt like. For example:

1) It only allowed 1 camera playback at a time, not 4 cameras. Apparently they had a firmware update that takes care of this problem.

2) Whenever I did a factory default reset, it set everything back to chinese. It was a pain in the butt to try to find out how to change it back to english.

3) They advertise D1 recording. This is only possible if you are recording only 1 channel. This means if you want to record in D1, you have to choose 1 channel to record and all of the rest cannot be recording. If you want to record all 4 channels simultaneously, you have to use CIF.

4) They advertise 30 FPS recording which is also not true, it appears to be more like 15-20 FPS. You can definetely notice its "stop and go" nature.

[tti-plus 0]

Hi All,

 

We have very good reports from customers for the AVTECH DVRs we carry. There new GUI has been a huge improvement and the prices are very good. They all offer mobile phone support and the new IVS series has auto push notification for iphone and auto zoom feature when they use the IVS series Smart Zoom cameras and auto tracking for the IVS series PTZ. All of there products we feel are the best bang for the buck.

Troy

 

[edit by mod-please put contact info in your signature)

[jrmymllr 0]

If for example you were feeling up to ordering from China you could check one of the recent DVRs from Cantonk (they are on the forum), its so cheap its not funny .. but they have great specs, has USB Mouse, all mobile phone's support, remote setup, etc. I tested their remote video and I am impressed by the speed of their CMS app's GUI and also their browser software - so many of todays software applications are made on super computers and they tend to forget the small guys that cant afford the latest to run their remote video apps! About 1/4 the price of the others, plus shipping ofcourse LOL.

 

2) Whenever I did a factory default reset, it set everything back to chinese. It was a pain in the butt to try to find out how to change it back to english.

 

I suppose this makes sense considering it sounds like they are for the Chinese market and must be imported to US/Europe if you want one.

 

I really wonder what the quality difference is between my Qsee and another sub-$200 unit. I now know the Qsee video quality isn't so great, but for what I paid it's a good starter unit. The device itself has been reliable. The manual is terrible, the software is terrible, their web-site is fairly comprehensive but otherwise their support is terrible and they can't even respond to an email question.

 

If I had to buy a 4 channel standalone today, I don't know what I'd buy. The PI Mfg seems promising and is under $200. I still need to really try out their online demo although it was easy to view still images. Sure, $500 - $1000 would get a nice DVR, but that's a bit steep for my use.

[rory 0]

These are from a sub $200 DVR im testing.

Ive been messing around with the quality settings so you may see some varying quality levels below.

 

Granted I dont have the best cameras, in fact all but the one Im testing are old 2nd hand cameras, 2 of them low res cameras and the other has focus issues as its all beat up.

http://www.bahamassecurity.com/xts/vteg.jpg

 

browser app:

http://www.bahamassecurity.com/xts/dheg.jpg

 

im testing a couple cameras that just received, they dont work properly though, see washed out colors due to no IR cut filter.

 

and this is my custom software with the DVR's SDK: