disappointed with focus

[cglaeser 0]

I installed a Samsung SVD-4400 CCTV for the low-light performance, and I'm pleased with that feature, but I can't seem to get a decent focus. Perhaps I've been spoiled by the megapixel IP cameras, so I posted a couple images for review. The 4400 is connected to an Axis Q7404 video encoder which is set to D1 resolution with MJPEG compression at highest quality. Comments?

 

 

[rory 0]

Yes looks out of focus.

No shutter changes right?

Everything factory?

What are you using to focus it and where and under what lighting?

Most of the time it may be focused in one and not the other, but both also could mean a lens problem.

Park your car out there at night and focus on that, seems like a ton of light there.

[thewireguys 3]

Definitely should focus better

[cglaeser 0]

Yes looks out of focus.

No shutter changes right?

Everything factory?

 

Right, everything factory.

 

What are you using to focus it and where and under what lighting?

 

I'm trying to focus on the hedge on the far side of the driveway apron during daytime. I have spent a couple hours working with the focus on this camera. It is very, very sensitive to adjustment, but even if I move the focus one micron at a time, this is the best I can get at this focal length, which is not all the way extended. I've also tried fixing the focus and adjusting the zoom, which is perhaps a bit less sensitive, but still can't get a good focus.

 

Most of the time it may be focused in one and not the other, but both also could mean a lens problem.

Park your car out there at night and focus on that, seems like a ton of light there.

 

I think it's a lens problem. I'll give it another go tomorrow. I think if I set the camera to full wide, I may be able to get a better focus. If I fully zoom, it won't pull focus at all, so I backed off on the zoom, even though I would prefer to zoom a bit more.

 

Should I purchase another lens and try that? What is a quality lens for 1/3" sensor that will fit in a minidome?

 

Best,

Christopher

[cglaeser 0]

Definitely should focus better

 

Thanks, I thought so. I already had to repair the tilt range with a grinder. Sure glad I don't have to install a dozen of these. That said, the low-light performance of this camera kicks ass compared to my megapixels. If and when I get the focus resolved, I have the perfect location for this camera.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

Always do the focus on the center of the image first, then check the edges and adjust if needed just a tiny bit. I had issues with trying to focus a camera outside mounted the other day, similar thing it was really sensitive, I ended up taking one like it home to focus in a controlled environment then took it back and replaced it with that.

 

You didnt mention what you are focusing with, for example if using the network software its a 50-50 chance of getting it focused right, same with a small LCD. Although it should be better than the images you posted.

 

The lens, its hard to say without seeing a picture of the lens. If its using a standard TDN M13 Varifocal Lens then that can be bought from many places, KT&C for example have a couple of them listed on alot of various retailers and distributors. If its an M12 lens then that is smaller, most recent ones Ive used from a couple different brands were M13 push in type (not screw in). Also if they have a customized lens, eg the IR Cut mechanism is at the bottom of the lens, then that is going to be different, in that case you could get a non ICR lens as the lens in that case would normally just rest on top of that part.

 

What you could also do is locate the AI on it, its the part with the motor (or 2 of them with the IR Cut), it normally has one or two small tiny screws, you just unscrew them and then you can pull the entire AI piece out of the lens. The lens will still work, just no AI or ICR if that is built into that as the standard ones are. This is just to make sure there is no issue with the AI part of the lens. If the camera has an EI option set it to that also. Dont take the AI piece apart though incase you damage it, its easy to do, the metal gets bent and then it wont close and open properly and ends up getting stuck - been there done that.

[cglaeser 0]

Thanks for the tips. I just skimmed the manual again. Although I did not change the factory settings, the camera does support digital zoom and other features, so I should double check to make sure all the settings are set to defaults.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

Yeah I looked at the spec sheet and it mentioned a DIS feature, maybe try disabling that if it is enabled incase its not working properly.

[cglaeser 0]

I reviewed the settings. Digital Zoom and Digital Image Stabilization were both turned off. Sharpening was also turned off. When I set Sharpening, the image looked like the following. Comments?

 

[D.V.S. 0]

My CNB vbm-24vf had the same situation. Sharpness on default was a bit blurry. I set the sharpness to the highest and it became clear. Don't know what use the sharpness is, if you have to set it to max for a clear picture. The only thing I can think of is that with the sharpness on max, my dvr uses more disk space.

[cglaeser 0]

My CNB vbm-24vf had the same situation. Sharpness on default was a bit blurry. I set the sharpness to the highest and it became clear. Don't know what use the sharpness is, if you have to set it to max for a clear picture. The only thing I can think of is that with the sharpness on max, my dvr uses more disk space.

 

Thanks for responding. Yes, more detail means more disk space. Disk is cheap and recycles. I'll take all the forensic detail I can get.

 

The original setting seemed much too blurry, but this setting seems reasonable to me. Other opinions and comments welcomed.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

I think its still a little out of focus, when i resize it to CIF it should be sharp but its not. Though im not sure what DVR you are using and how much it is being compressed in the encoding.

[cglaeser 0]

Though im not sure what DVR you are using and how much it is being compressed in the encoding.

 

Axis Q7404 video encoder, D1 resolution, MJPEG at highest quality.

 

It's as though the lens can't pull focus at that focal length, which I'm guessing is around 1/2 to 2/3 fully extended. When fully zoomed, the focus is just a blur.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

How is it directly on a monitor at the camera?

When zoomed to far, the max, that should be the best image, make sure you can get that crisp first or wide wont be clear at all. Maybe it has a backfocus feature? Most of these M13 lenses snap in place and cant be turned, some will though and perhaps it needs a backfocus adjustment. But test it on a monitor first, like even a 13" TV if you dont have a CCTV CRT monitor - LCD wont give you the clarity. If its still the same, maybe return it instead of fighting with the lens, it should be easy enough to focus, not all this work, unless there is a problem and thats not a good sign.

[cglaeser 0]

When zoomed to far, the max, that should be the best image, make sure you can get that crisp first or wide wont be clear at all.

 

When fully zoomed, it won't pull a focus at all. Very blurry through the entire focus range when fully zoomed. Had to back off on the zoom a bit so that I could pull a decent focus.

 

Maybe it has a backfocus feature?

 

Not that I am aware.

 

Most of these M13 lenses snap in place and cant be turned, some will though and perhaps it needs a backfocus adjustment.

 

OK, I'll make a close inspection the next time I have it down.

 

Best,

Christopher

[SpyGuy10 0]

My CNB vbm-24vf had the same situation. Sharpness on default was a bit blurry. I set the sharpness to the highest and it became clear.

Digital sharpening (edge enhancement) is no replacement for a sharply focused lens. With sharpening turned off, there is no reason the image should be "a bit blurry" with proper focusing of the lens. If the image cannot be made sharp with the lens, then perhaps you have a lens problem. But realize that you often have to tweak both the focus AND the zoom to hit a focal "sweet spot" where the image is sharp (at least that's what I've found with my CNB cams).

[cglaeser 0]

If the image cannot be made sharp with the lens, then perhaps you have a lens problem.

 

I expect you don't have this model, but as a rule, do these CCTV minidome lenses snap in or screw in? How can I tell the difference? Could it be a little loose in the mount and not properly aligned with the sensor?

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

If the image cannot be made sharp with the lens, then perhaps you have a lens problem.

 

I expect you don't have this model, but as a rule, do these CCTV minidome lenses snap in or screw in? How can I tell the difference? Could it be a little loose in the mount and not properly aligned with the sensor?

 

Best,

Christopher

 

The newest ones Ive tested with varifocal lenses, the lenses snap in, not screw in. They also only went in one way or two ways (the opposite sides) but neither made a difference in focus.

[cglaeser 0]

The newest ones Ive tested with varifocal lenses, the lenses snap in, not screw in. They also only went in one way or two ways (the opposite sides) but neither made a difference in focus.

 

Can they be removed without damage?

[rory 0]

Can they be removed without damage?

 

Yes just dont touch the lens or you will have to clean it

one small screw normally holds it in place, loosen that a little then you should be able to just pull the lens out. You would also normally need to remove the AI and ICR connections also if you want to take the lens out of it completely. Some cameras will ofcourse differ on the design. I was interchanging lenses between IR bullets just the other night ... also taking out Auto Iris' and mixing and matching. I have a box of old M12 screw in Varifocal lenses as well as a couple M13 snap in ones I got from various cameras over the past couple months. For example one camera had a 2.8-10mm non TDN lens so I wanted to test that on another camera, and that other camera's 4-9mm TDN one on that one.

[bpzle 0]

Not sure if it's been said... but the lens is probably not on correctly. You'll find some set screws around the base of the lens, near the sensor that lock the lens to the sensor chassis. Loosen it and firmly push on the lens to make sure it is as snug as it can get against the sensor.

 

 

If that checks out good... the other possibility is that you've zoomed in or out past the limits of the lens. Try zooming in/out just a tad and then attempt to refocus.

 

Also, what are you using to focus? A laptop? That can be a real pain in the arse due to lag time. Try using a cheap portable DVD player with a video input. Ya ya ya we know Rory CRTs are better but good luck finding one.

 

Hope this helps

[rory 0]

Also, what are you using to focus? A laptop? That can be a real pain in the arse due to lag time. Try using a cheap portable DVD player with a video input. Ya ya ya we know Rory CRTs are better but good luck finding one.

 

Actually Provideo still sells the 9" BW monitors

But a 13" Color TV would be just as good especially with a color camera.

 

I have a cheap Coby portable DVD player that I bought recently, I would have to tell people please dont waste their money. It cost me $150 here which is alot cheaper than say a portable service monitor would cost landed here, but the battery life is terrible, and it wont show video on the input unless it is fully charged, and plugged in is only for charging so you have to wait until its charged up again. Also trying to get a focus on one of them is like pulling teeth, I get a better focus on my 7" netbook over the network with encoded VBR video.

 

However with the larger screen of the portable DVD player compared to the portable service monitor, you probably stand a better chance of a near good focus. Overall the cheap portable DVD player is good for basic adjustments in the field and its better than nothing for focus. But its hard to handle, really flimsy, scratches with just finger prints, and when it drops off the ladder say goodbye to the outer case and the DVD player part of it, as did happen to mine. I thought it was neat with the swivel screen but then .. oh well

[cglaeser 0]

I still have several CRT monitors, including a 21" Dell and a top-of-the-line 19" LaCie Electron Blue III, but I don't think my ladder can support the weight.

 

I also have a couple portable DVD players. I'm curious though, why is a portable DVD player better than an LCD monitor?

 

Best,

Christopher

 

PS: I still have a Wyse WY75 ascii terminal.

[rory 0]

yeah but by CRT we mean the CCTV CRTs, not VGA

 

The portable DVD isnt better, least not the screen - as long as you are talking about regular LCD monitors and not a service monitor? Its just that its easier to get up on the ladder with, then again though its hard to handle up there also, but still lighter and smaller than the LCD monitor. If you can take the camera down and focus it even better. LCD monitors dont typically have a composite input though, and the VGA converters can really diminish the quality especially the cheaper ones.

 

If you mean the laptop LCD, then its fine in some cases, but still if you are doing it over the network then its encoded video and that can not be as clear. If in your case you are focusing it after it passed through the Axis video encoder then that may be your problem right there, you need to focus it right from the video from the camera before it is encoded anywhere. In some circumstances it may be focused "okay" this way, but with the issues you are having I would go direct.