Seeking recommendation: 8-16 Channel IP Appliance w/ PnP Mac

[marcuso 0]

The last system that I setup was a NUUO Appliance with a combination of Zavio and Panasonic cameras. There was too much frustration, and I still have problems accessing multiple cameras consistently. It seems like my poor box is overloaded. But more importantly, I have moved on to using primary Macs, and the NUUO continues to disappoint me with Mac incompatibility.

 

So, as the typical Mac owner will attest, I am willing to pay more for ease of use. I would like to buy an appliance (or fully configured NVR) along with cameras that are plug and play. Meaning, I want to plug the things into a POE switch that is connected to my router offers DHCP. I want to have everything plugged in, turn it on, point my Macbook at the appliance (via browser or software), and start pointing the cameras. No, I don't want to have to log into the cameras and do any configuration ever. Hell, I want the thing to even be preconfigured to auto-record at high quality on motion (now I know I am asking for too much).

 

And in just in case Santa is listening very closely, I would like this thing to work with my Android phone.

 

So to recap:

8-16 channel IP NVR appliance (or nicely configured box or super easy one step Linux OS and all software installation)

Compatible with Mac for remote viewing (Chrome browser)

Includes (or works with) POE IP Cameras Plug n Play - No configuration

 

Additional wishes:

Works with Android Phone for Viewing

Pre-configured recording

Large-install base; consistent improvements in software

User installable or upgradable harddrives

 

Any suggestions for cameras, NVRs, POE? Any suggestions on vendors who offer complete packages?

[thewireguys 3]

Are you a end user or installer?

[marcuso 0]

End user with a great deal of technical aptitude. I will have a 3rd party install the wiring, but I will do the setup.

[thewireguys 3]

I wouldn't sell it but this is what you want..... The MSRP for the appliance is $4,800 http://www.gviss.com/products/ip/gvraz.php

 

not sure if your if it works with MAC though but it does all of the other stuff you want.

 

Other option is Exacq the server runs on Linux or Windows and the client runs on Mac,Windows and Linux. Browser you can use with anything including smart phones.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Guest

[cglaeser 0]

Compatible with Mac for remote viewing (Chrome browser)

 

If you are content with using the Chrome browser for remote viewing, some VMS applications can do this without ActiveX and will work fine on the Mac. One example is Exacq. However, these web viewers are generally not as feature rich as the client software. This is one market that the PC dominates, and if I was determined to use my Mac for remote viewing, I would probably use remote login to a PC-based NVR.

 

Best,

Christopher

[marcuso 0]

Thanks for the input. I dug a little deeper after submitting my original post. I was quickly coming to the conclusion that I wouldn't find what I want and would be better off with an ExacQ. My impression is that the hardware that you buy from ExacQ is relatively overpriced and we would be best off buying an off the shelf box with Windows already installed and throwing in some harddrives. (Or a server, but I would then need to install an OS.) I have a preference for Dell machines; are there any Dells that are reasonably priced and have a bunch of storage bays (and include any necessary HD brackets). The HP Home-Server implementations with 4 storage bays look like a great option, but they only offer Home-Server versions and no regular windows. Does ExacQ work with HomeServer?

 

It sure would be nice if ExacQ offered a distribution of Linux that includes ExacQ during installation and auto-updates. We purchased a Trixbox Pro for our phone system. Since I am the only one in our company that knows Linux, I try to avoid using it, but given the hands-off nature of the Trixbox, Linux works well in this scenario.

 

Now getting to cameras. It looks like Axis and ACTi are the front-runners in price/performance on low-end 1-megapixel cameras. Maybe we should consider IQeye? I want fast responsiveness while remote viewing over DSL, so I wonder; should I be looking at H.264 cameras exclusively? Which manufacturer is most plug-n-play with ExacQ. Will I have to log into the cameras? If so, which manufacturer offers the most pain-free experience?

[thewireguys 3]

Thanks for the input. I dug a little deeper after submitting my original post. I was quickly coming to the conclusion that I wouldn't find what I want and would be better off with an ExacQ. My impression is that the hardware that you buy from ExacQ is relatively overpriced and we would be best off buying an off the shelf box with Windows already installed and throwing in some harddrives. (Or a server, but I would then need to install an OS.) I have a preference for Dell machines; are there any Dells that are reasonably priced and have a bunch of storage bays (and include any necessary HD brackets). The HP Home-Server implementations with 4 storage bays look like a great option, but they only offer Home-Server versions and no regular windows. Does ExacQ work with HomeServer?

 

It sure would be nice if ExacQ offered a distribution of Linux that includes ExacQ during installation and auto-updates. We purchased a Trixbox Pro for our phone system. Since I am the only one in our company that knows Linux, I try to avoid using it, but given the hands-off nature of the Trixbox, Linux works well in this scenario.

 

Now getting to cameras. It looks like Axis and ACTi are the front-runners in price/performance on low-end 1-megapixel cameras. Maybe we should consider IQeye? I want fast responsiveness while remote viewing over DSL, so I wonder; should I be looking at H.264 cameras exclusively? Which manufacturer is most plug-n-play with ExacQ. Will I have to log into the cameras? If so, which manufacturer offers the most pain-free experience?

 

Well your NOT gonna get high frame rates over DSL with Megapixel cameras. Any camera on Exacq supported camera list works fine with them. If you need a authorized reseller for Exacq please PM me. I can even build the system and have it pre-configured before it goes out the door and provide remote support. For a pain-free install

[Bean00 0]

Dedicated Micros Closed IP is fully plug and play. Not 100% on the mac compatibility but their other units are so I would assume so.

 

They don't have a huge compatibility list, but enough to make most any application work.

 

No Andriod app

No user installed harddrives

 

They definitely have a large install base.

 

Mght be worth checking into.

[rory 0]

Unless one can change their own hard drives a system really is useless.

Its like saying you have to send a car back to its manufacturer to get a tire changed.

[cglaeser 0]

I can even build the system and have it pre-configured before it goes out the door and provide remote support. For a pain-free install

 

Sounds like a winner.

 

Best,

Christopher

[Bean00 0]

Unless one can change their own hard drives a system really is useless.

Its like saying you have to send a car back to its manufacturer to get a tire changed.

I can only think of two known, reputable, manufacturers who do allow others to install harddrives.

 

And on the flip side of that coin:

Panasonic, GE/UTC, Toshiba, Dedicated Micros, Bosch, Pelco, American Dynamics, Honeywell, ARM, Mace, Speco, Everfocus, Vitek, Nuvico, Digital Watchdog, etc. Do not allow it.

[thewireguys 3]

Unless one can change their own hard drives a system really is useless.

Its like saying you have to send a car back to its manufacturer to get a tire changed.

I can only think of two known, reputable, manufacturers who do allow others to install harddrives.

 

And on the flip side of that coin:

Panasonic, GE/UTC, Toshiba, Dedicated Micros, Bosch, Pelco, American Dynamics, Honeywell, ARM, Mace, Speco, Everfocus, Vitek, Nuvico, Digital Watchdog, etc. Do not allow it.

 

Yup and that is what dealers and integrators are for

[rory 0]

I can only think of two known, reputable, manufacturers who do allow others to install harddrives.

 

And on the flip side of that coin:

Panasonic, GE/UTC, Toshiba, Dedicated Micros, Bosch, Pelco, American Dynamics, Honeywell, ARM, Mace, Speco, Everfocus, Vitek, Nuvico, Digital Watchdog, etc. Do not allow it.

IMO its a useless system if one cannot change the hard drives without sending it back to the manufacturer. Those manufacturers may be able to sucker others into buying a product that doesnt allow them to switch the hard drive when it goes bad, but not me.

 

And BTW as for GE there was never a problem changing the Hard Drives, originally there was an issue finding the right drives for the power supply but after power upgrades that is non existent anymore. They even have a feature built into the menu for drive setup. I cant speak for the rest. And if you mean it just voids warranty then that is not the same.

[cglaeser 0]

The HP Home-Server implementations with 4 storage bays look like a great option, but they only offer Home-Server versions and no regular windows.

 

I've been buying Dells for many years, but recently purchased an HP Z200. The Z400 and Z800 have more capacity and the drives are slightly easier to install/replace (they use a drive caddy), but the Z200 is a nice price point.

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

Do not use Windows Home Server for your NVR

[marcuso 0]

I have done an about-face. I determined that I wasn't going to get what I want in a package, so I am planning to built myself. I have purchased the following:

 

Used Dell T3400 Dual-Core Computer w/ Vista Business - 2GB Ram - NVidia 290 Video card

4 - 2TB WD Green Harddrives (Plan to configure in a RAID 5 array for 6TB total)

Additional 4GB RAM

Dell 24 Port POE Switch

3 - ACTi megapixel PT cameras (got good deal)

1- ACTi megapixel fixed camera (cheap - for experimentation)

 

Total price for above was about $2100.

 

I think in addition to the ACTi cameras, I may be interested in getting some Arecont 180 degree cameras (2 of them). A couple of the Areconts, a few more basic megapixel cameras, and the licenses for ExacQ should run another $4000-$5000.

 

It will be a bit of a pain to install, but I think it will be a good fit with my Mac. What do you guys think? Will the computer system be able to handle the camera setup (how many more cameras could I add if I get ambitious)? Does ExacQ utilize much RAM (the reason I ask is because I wonder if I should try to track down 64 bit Vista so that I can use more than 4GB). Is the video card good enough to run as the client for ExacQ?

[cglaeser 0]

(Plan to configure in a RAID 5 array for 6TB total)

 

Why? What is your motivation for RAID 5?

 

Best,

Christopher

[Soundy 1]

Use the Caviar Black drives, not the Greens. Green drives don't have the performance and aren't designed for 24/7 operation.

[marcuso 0]

(Plan to configure in a RAID 5 array for 6TB total)

 

Why? What is your motivation for RAID 5?

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Would you recommend no RAID at all? I would want redundancy on at least the boot volume, so RAID 5 gives me that plus redundancy on all other volumes as well. I would assume that disk speed is not too much of an issue so there would be no need for RAID 10.

[marcuso 0]

Use the Caviar Black drives, not the Greens. Green drives don't have the performance and aren't designed for 24/7 operation.

 

Is drive performance really that important? I would assume that as long as the drives can keep up with the stream, we would be ok.

[cglaeser 0]

Would you recommend no RAID at all?

 

What are the odds a drive is going to fail? What are the odds that someone is going to burglarize your home? Now, what are the odds both will happen on the same day?

 

Also, why the need for so much storage?

 

Best,

Christopher

[Soundy 1]

Use the Caviar Black drives, not the Greens. Green drives don't have the performance and aren't designed for 24/7 operation.

 

Is drive performance really that important? I would assume that as long as the drives can keep up with the stream, we would be ok.

Check the highlighted bit. And yes, performance will matter - you're streaming four megapixel cameras now, and possibly more later. You're putting together a fully-wigged-out machine with ridiculous amounts of RAM; don't bottleneck it all by scrimping on the drives (retail around here for a 2TB/64MB/7200 Caviar Black is only $188, vs. $130 for a 2TB/32MB/5400 Caviar Green).

 

RAID5 is good for your data volume, but I'd suggest a hardware RAID controller rather than software. For your boot volume, just use a small-ish drive (80GB-120GB), and image it onto another drive (external, DVD-R, thumb drive, etc.) with Ghost or DriveImage or Paragon or Acronis or something once it's all set up - if the disk fails, it's a simple matter to just pop in a new one, and restore the image.

[rory 0]

Use the Caviar Black drives, not the Greens. Green drives don't have the performance and aren't designed for 24/7 operation.

 

Is drive performance really that important? I would assume that as long as the drives can keep up with the stream, we would be ok.

I used the WD AV drives (greens) with a Geo system and it took weeks but in the end I found out it was the drives that were causing the recorded video to skip. Otherwise the drives tested fine and had no issue outside of that. I ended up switching to WD Blue drives (no blacks here) and they work great. Speed difference is 90 max with the Greens to 130 max with the blues, although cant say that really effects it much as Ive used slower drives without issue, It has to be something else in the AV drives firmware that causes the issue.

[cglaeser 0]

Would you recommend no RAID at all?

 

Is this system for a Casino or a your home? I always ask one very simple question. What is it you are trying to accomplish? Do you want to archive months of video of cars passing by your house? Or, do you want to document the exact time of day someone broke into your car that was parked in your driveway? Or, are you trying to catch a burglar if someone breaks into your car? Once you answer this very basic question about what you are trying to accomplish, designing the system becomes much easier.

 

Best,

Christopher

[marcuso 0]

Would you recommend no RAID at all?

 

Is this system for a Casino or a your home? I always ask one very simple question. What is it you are trying to accomplish? Do you want to archive months of video of cars passing by your house? Or, do you want to document the exact time of day someone broke into your car that was parked in your driveway? Or, are you trying to catch a burglar if someone breaks into your car? Once you answer this very basic question about what you are trying to accomplish, designing the system becomes much easier.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

This is a business/warehouse. We want to store video as far back as possible in order to investigate issues after the fact.