Complete Noob...wants to build a pc based monitoring system

[Liquid Cool 0]

Hello Folks...

 

I've been reading the site for about a week trying to familiarize myself with all of the lingo. I'm completely new to all of this, but I am interested in putting together a small camera system to monitor a couple of points at my house. I've had three break-in's to my car over the last year, and this last one the thieves happened to walk through the neighbors yard, and were caught on his antiquated BW system, but the VCR tape is so blurry I can't barely make anything out.

 

First of all, I'm on a tight budget. So I'd like to start out with two cameras, but have the ability to add 2 later on. I'd basically like to get all of this done for $750, If I can... I'm under the assumption I need a DVR card, the two camera's, cabling, and a PC. The better of my pc's is AMD based, so If I could find a card that works with this one, I'd probably be ecstatic. If not, the Pentium I have should be suitable. Is there anything else I need? I've been seeing these Power Supply boxes. Not sure how there useful. If I didn't use one, would I have to wire up an outlet for each individual camera?

 

As far as the areas to cover, I have a driveway I want to cover that is 16x30. It doesn't get very dark at night because of the local street lights. I was contemplating installing the camera(link below) in the overhanging eave, because in the front of the house, I'd like to be as discreet as possible. I couldn't find out much about the camera, like the filter Rory(Yes Rory, I read all of your posts) speaks about, or if it's BW at night. So I don't know if it's a true Color/BW at night, or if it's color 24/7. It doesn't say. Does anyone have any working knowledge of these cameras? I might add, my house is beige, and the camera also comes with a beige housing. Something I find very attractive. Although, for the money, if you guys feel this is junk, please tell me so and feel free to offer substitutes. Although, I'm concerned that if this camera doesn't work...How would I hide the camera??

 

[edit-link removed by mod]

 

The second camera would be installed under my back porch in the corner facing a sliding glass door that would be 12' feet away. The whole area under the porch is 8'x14'. We have a fence and an arbor in the back yard, so it is very dark back in there, were always nervous someone could break in and take there time doing it. So we'd probably be needing a camera that can see in dark places. Would prefer color day/BW night, but if they're too expensive, we could go with BW night/day. The area isn't too large to cover, but I want to be able to see the area rather well, and make out faces if need be. There are so many cameras out there to choose from, after searching for a few days, I feel completely lost on the correct one for this area...

 

The DVR card. I like the looks of the GE 600 series. I've read they can be used on an AMD computer? Although the price ranges vary tremendously on these. Any other brands out there. I know LeadTek makes one, and I saw a few on [edit-link removed by mod]

 

 

Appreciate any help offered, and if you need further information to help, don't hesitate to ask.

 

Best Regards,

 

Liquid Cool

[rory 0]

hi and welcome ...

 

For that price, and the fact it doesnt say it has an IR Cut Filter, it 99% of the time means it doesnt have one, as it is day night with IR. If you've read my posts like you say, you will know what the advantage of an IR Cut Filter is on a Day Night camera, so I wont go over that right now.

 

If you have a 2 storey house, then forget the IR part of it. If it sais 30' that means inside a room, where it can reflect off walls, otherwise looking to a yard with nothing to reflect the IR from, it wont see much if anything. The only way around that is to make sure it hits a wall or bush, to reflect, and is within less than 30' .. OR, using expensive high powered Infrared like Extreme CCTV.

 

If its not pitch dark, then dont worry about infrared, and if it is, best to use either BW, or color, with motion detector lighting if you need to, which costs maybe $20 or so per light.

 

If you want a discreet camera, a standard vandal resisant dome will do, if it is dim and you dont want to spend on a day night, then just look at a BW dome. If there is lighting then you can get away with color domes, or even bullets.

 

WizKid have some nice looking mini "indestructable" dome cameras, they come in medium or high resolution, color or BW. And they have a white dome housing. You can take a malot to it, run it over in a truck, and it still wont break .. I tried it!

http://www.wizkidoptotech.com/products/index.cfm?img=2

 

If you can afford it, the extra $50 or so its worth it for the high resolution. Also, stay away from any Dome camera that has IR inside the dome.

 

If you want day night, then there is the True Day Night domes, such as Sanyo, but they are not cheap, but great picture.

 

Personally if its me, Id pass on the washed out color in the say with a cheap day night, and installe BW in low light areas, and color where there is light.

 

For the back porch, a medium res BW Vandal proof dome would work fine, such as the WizKid.

 

If you are truly looking for a cheap day night camera, discreet for an Eave, then cant beat the Eclipse CCTV Day/Night fixed lens dome, a new one that just came out, switches to BW in low light for lower noise and slightly lower light, color in day is washed out though as it has no IR Cut Filter .. but its cheap ... I sell this as an alternative but make sure the client sees the difference between one with an IR cut Filter. They have a High Res version for only a couple $$ more. It is so simple to install though, the simplest vandal resistant dome I have ever installed. The only 2 cameras of theirs I sell is the color bullet and this dome though.

 

Basically, when dealing with discreet cameras, only use a dome if vandal resistance is required, other wise use a bullet camera.

 

As for a DVR card, you can get a 4 channel eclipse that works really well and is dead cheap .. its also the only card I sell from eclipse as their 8+ cards arent that great .. for the price cant beat the 4 channel card though .. works on AMD also, i had it in my AMD PC for a while. Otherwise a move up to the GEO or Iview or other ... but double the price.

 

Rory

[Thomas 0]

One thing to note. If you make a DVR, the machine should only be a DVR. No web surfing. No office. No gaming.

[rory 0]

yep for sure. Also, if you want to save on buying another monitor, then you could get a KVM switch to allow you to use 1 monitor for both PCs.

 

Rory

[Liquid Cool 0]

Thanks for the fast(and thorough) responses...

 

First question to arise is why just the DVR? Can't do anything else on the pc? Why is this. I build custom PC's as a hobby, mostly liquid cooled units. They should be able to handle something like this easily. Although, I'll have to wait for answers on this one, because I'll admit, having seen a DVR....that's about it. I have 6 LCD's on my office wall, I can dedicate one if need be.

 

Rory,

 

do you have a link I could look at to get familiar with Eclipse products you mentioned. The card sounds good. The cameras, I'm still thinking on. Here's what troubles me. I live in a neighborhood(Urban America) on a lake, lots of walkers going by, I live on a corner, and I really don't want a dome camera on the front of my house. I'd like to have it not seen at all. I'm not sure how small these are, but real small like 3" would be too big for me. I have two vents up in the soffets, what about drilling hole in one of the vents and poking a bullet in up there? As far as the true day/night color/BW bullets...how much are they? Also, in the back area under the porch, I just have rafters to mount the camera too. I was thinking a bullet, or a small camera would fit in there pretty good, I'm not sure how I'd mount a dome.

 

If I get what your saying about the quality of these camera's here, and from what I've read in other posts. If they don't have an IR Cut Filter, stay away, unless you want a cheapie? What about this Eclipse dome with no IR cut filter. You can get this same type in a bullet? Color day/BW night...high res? that sounds like what would workly nicely in perhaps both locations if I could shoot the camera out of the vent. Also for the measurements, I'm not sure what lenses I'd need...again new to this.

 

 

Best,

 

LC

[Liquid Cool 0]

Back again...Looking at the Sony I mentioned in my first post...it's a dome?? So I could see how you'd get the impression I was interested in domes. Sorry. Taking a close look at that WizKid site, I sure like the WZ21 and WZ22. Those are nice.

 

Best,

 

LC

[rory 0]

Yeah you could do that, just have to make sure nothing is blocking the view. A True Day Night would be something like the Provideo CVC-7706DNV, then if you use it like you want to, disable the IR or it could cause an issue.

 

3.6mm or lower is wide angle, 4mm is normal. This is in 1/3" Cameras, which the Provideo Heat cameras are. Cheaper Bullets/domes will be 1/4" so they will be more like 5mm which is much narrower.

 

Since i cant sell Eclipse to anyone in the US and they sell to end users, sure:

www.EclipseCCTV.com, though they dont have all their models on there. Also contact www.CCTVco.com if you want to purchase. PM me for a more extensive Eclipse PDF file I created some time ago, shows all the main products.

 

You want to keep the DVR dedicated for a couple of reasons, such as it is recording to the HDD 24/7, and the more CPU usage you pull from the DVR to something else, like Photochop or MS Word, will cause issues with the DVR server. It WILL run, and probably for a long time, but its too much of a chance to take if we are talking security .. windows is unstable enough as it is. When I set up a PC DVR, i tweak it to the max, turning off EVERYTHING the DVR doesnt use.

 

But you could initially use your regular PC if you want ... i did for a week or so .. But Id even get my hands on a cheap PC just for the DVR card and strip it down, tweak it and turn off all unused services. I am using a 2Ghz Celleron 256MB DDR Second Hand PC for the DVR card here, and as it has only the DVR server software on it, and tweaked right out, it hasnt crashed or caused any errors from day 1. With the Eclipse 4 channel Card, 30fps, I even used a 1.5ghz Second hand PC and it ran fine. Even had it in my AMD PC.

 

One thing though, with most if not all PC DVR server software, they take over the entire PC so you cant do anything else while the DVR is running.

 

Rory

Edited June 1, 2005 by Guest

[rory 0]

Back again...Looking at the Sony I mentioned in my first post...it's a dome?? So I could see how you'd get the impression I was interested in domes. Sorry. Taking a close look at that WizKid site, I sure like the WZ21 and WZ22. Those are nice.

 

Best,

 

LC

 

The 22 is not cheap though, but is cheaper than others like it.

[Liquid Cool 0]

If I'm reading on Spytown right the Speco is a ProVideo? That 7706 is a wallet buster, how about the CVC-6805EX?

 

Best,

 

LC

[rory 0]

he he he .. yeah its not cheap ...

 

I havent used that camera, but according to Provideo Tech (Speco) the only day night bullet with an IR Cut Filter is the CVC-7706DNV. Ofcourse they have been known to be wrong in the past and I never rely 100% on specs anymore .. #1 thing to check for, is their CVC-637EX which used to be called an Exview camera, day night, is no longer Exview, just SuperHAD which is not as good low light, and it is not low light. Though if paying $100 more for the 6805EX then Id expect it to be at least Exview .. in fact, I may have to add that to my cat now since the 637EX is no longer day night .. my bad its already there .. Just more expensive ..

 

I sell the 637EX, 6805EX, 550EX, 960IR, and the 7706DNV . .. we pay 22% Customs Import Duty on them so cant sell everything .. yah know

 

Rory

Edited June 1, 2005 by Guest

[rory 0]

Actually .. ignore me .. it has a Cut Filter just like the 637EX as it is not a Day Night camera .. sorry, been a long day! LOL

 

It has a fixed IR Cut Filter as it is basically a color camera, just low light. It ignores IR.

 

Eclipse CCTV cheap color bullet is what I have here, but it needs alot of light, but for the price, cant beat it.

[qman 0]

Well, for the PCI card, I carry a I-VIEW card that it's only 30fps total, and it's also 4 channels, 199.99. I know that is double the price of a Eclipse, but it's a much better choice, and more reliable. Cameras you should really consider how much is worth to you to protect your property. It's better to go at it in a different way, instead of getting all together, start with one camera, a good one, and move on from there, as you can afford it, this way, when you are done, you will have a much better system that you thought you where going to have in the first place.

[Liquid Cool 0]

so let me get all of this straight....

 

I just looked at the 637EX...and frankly put, I like the size, it also comes in white. It says it has ExView. The article also says Day/Night Camera, but it does or does not have a fixed IR Cut Filter.

 

What do you think? The price is "fantastico"

 

Long day here too, rained so much I could have used Moses to part the waves in my basement. Spent most of the night with mop and bucket in hand.

 

Best,

 

LC

 

ANY link to those cards would be appreciated, can't seem to find any.

[Liquid Cool 0]

herminshs,

 

I agree with your philosophy. $199 is not too much for a card, I consider that cheap compared to the GE's I was looking at. As far as the cameras go, I don't want to compromise that is why I searched and found this site. Otherwise, I would have picked up some cheap monitor and a few cheap cameras as a kit and got taken...from my perspective. I was looking around, then realized, I don't know what I'm doing here, I'm going to get help.

 

You all have been extremely helpful. My car was just broken into last week, obviously the motivator to get off my duff.

 

Best,

 

LC

[rory 0]

PC Based DVR System, or Stand Alone DVR (NON PC)

==========================================================

 

The Stand Alone is a machine by default - a microcomputer with an RTOS (Real time Operating System Embedded on the CHIP in EPROM - Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory - much like the BIOS on a PC motherboard, the black screen that starts up first when you boot your PC) which is used in Cell Phones and Medical Equipment - while the other is a standard PC. The PC has more features. For example, the stand alones are better local viewing quality, while the PC has more remote/network features. PC has higher quality evidence sharing and is easier to back up recorded video as AVI files to CD/DVD/USB or any removable media.

 

Prices vary on all of them. The cheapest is the low end stand alone, while

there are low end, mid and high end in both the PC and stand alone.

 

Remember there is MPEG4 now in alot of DVRs. Some of the stand alones have it. The other stand alones are either MJpeg or Wavelet which can be very clear but not as fast as MPEG4 for remote video.

 

All of the DVRs I sell have some type of administration remotely or over the

network.

 

All but one of the Stand alone DVRs I sell require a TV or CCTV CRT Monitor. The PCs use a standard PC monitor, LCD or CRT.

 

All of the DVRs can be connected to a LCD or Plasma, though the quality of the Stand alones on these are not as clear as on a CRT, while the PC is generally as clear as on any LCD. A CRT is the best quality viewing for all DVRs; LCDs can cause the image to look somewhat pixelised or cause noise in the picture on PC DVRs, and very pixelised on Stand Alones. 4 channel DVRs generally only require a 13 or 14 inch monitor.

 

PC DVRs allow more powerful administration remotely or over the network,

standard PC monitor output. Generally faster recording (in the mid-high end range), Additional audio inputs with add on cards, Upgradable Hardware, Upgradable Camera Inputs, Easier to upgrade DVR Server Software, Uses a Mouse.

 

Stand Alones can be more stable (non windows operating system), more secure (no worms or viruses - though this can change), plug and play, local viewing quality is much better, VCR like control. Some of them have USB, Firewire, or built in CDRW/DVD for back up directly on the DVR. Most allow back up remotely or over the network.

 

Bottom line, if you want a Plug and Play Work Horse, then use a Non PC Stand Alone DVR (but remember they are not all built equal) otherwise, if you want all the features, go with a good PC DVR System.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Guest

[Liquid Cool 0]

Good explanation of the DVR, understand what's going on with these a little better. I didn't realize once you start the program it takes over your whole computer. I have a 2.4ghz pentium lying around, with just about enough parts to put one together. Might go this route.

 

LC

[rory 0]

no prob, there are a couple of them that dont, Iview being one, it lets you minimize the software, not sure which other ones allow this, but I am sure there are others. Eclipse takes over the network and the server software. I wrote custom software to get around that.

 

Rory

[Liquid Cool 0]

does the Iview run on an AMD platform? And did you see my ? on the 637?

 

Best,

 

LC

 

P.S. Now I'm going to have to figure out how to wire all of this up. Plenty of time to read while I'm waiting for the parts to come in...

[rory 0]

does the Iview run on an AMD platform? And did you see my ? on the 637?

 

Best,

 

LC

 

P.S. Now I'm going to have to figure out how to wire all of this up. Plenty of time to read while I'm waiting for the parts to come in...

 

Just saw it ..

 

the 637 is no longer Exview, nor Day Night, simply a high res color wide angle bullet camera. I know, it sucks .. we just bought 10 of these ..!

 

As for Iview, only the 4 channel 30fps card claims to run on AMD.

 

And by the way, we have had our share of rain last few days (couple weeks) I mean pounding tropical storm type rain, basically had no rain from last year until it just kicked in a month or so ago ... but darn It cant get any more humid and sunny and hot than its been this past week!! Gawd, summer is certainly here ... im dyin, AC is the bomb .. though id wish that on my AC as its been acting up lately, just aint cooling my apt anymore, think because its just tooo hot is all. Thank gawd for car AC .. yeahh ..

Edited June 1, 2005 by Guest

[Liquid Cool 0]

[edit-link removed by mod]

 

Here's the URL to the 637's on Spytown...they're saying they are. Could they be wrong then?

 

Best,

 

LC

 

I can't believe your in the Bahamas...you lucky dog...

[rory 0]

yes they are wrong, plus their price is incorrect even for a dealer ... trust me ...

http://www.csi-speco.com/cart/products/productDetails.asp?prodID=568

 

From Provideo Tech Support:

"...the CVC-637EX is no longer a day/night camera. While the low-light sensitivity remains at an impressive .03 lux we now leave the camera in color throughout its light cycle. This change was made because pf popular demand from our customers who were complaining that the CVC-637EX was going to B/W when there was still plenty of light left for the camera to make a good color picture..."

 

Its also only 0.3 lux if anything .... now. I tested it against a few other cams in the same location. Also, they dont make the cameras, they just buy them OEM from Asia. But sill they have the best Bullet Camera Line available.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Guest

[Liquid Cool 0]

You Are Fast.

 

Do you think the 637 would work for my application, or should I step up to the 6805. I guess that would be the next question? Also, you can't sell to the US?

 

Best,

 

LC

[rory 0]

Cant sell the Eclipse as they dont drop ship .. for me to ship the product here, then back again to the US, youd be better off buying the space shuttle ...

Once i get back into my shopping cart script and get that complete ( hopefully will start again tomorrow, lots of code and been busy last 2 weks with CCTV) then i can sell all brands except Eclipse, online. I still wont be as cheap as Spytown though, as well, they are who they are .. dont even think they still are open anymore actually. My main thing was to sell at near US dealer prices to Bahamian clients who want cheaper and pay their own customs and shipping.

 

 

For the dark areas, CVC-325WPWS (white) ..... disable the IR if you get a reflection from the IR on anything in the hole you out it in. Its a crisp mediaum res bullet camera, BW, Ive had them running over 4 years, great cams.

 

And if you have lighting, either the Eclipese that I have here for a cheap cam, or the Provideo CVC-637 ..

 

The 637 is a much wider angle (1/3 inch 3.6mm), and high resolution, even if they did take out the low light part of it, its still a great camera.

 

Rory

[rory 0]

I cant say whether th 6805 will be that much better, I used the Provideo dome version that was low light like the 6805, and wasnt much different in a very dark area, it was more low light, but not as clear as the BW bullet. Id go with BW in those dim/dark areas to be sure.

 

The 6805 has a varifocal lens, that also makes it a little more expensive.

 

As for wiring, RG59 Siamese Cable is the way to go.

 

Rory

[Liquid Cool 0]

Rory,

 

You've been a big help. It's 2:15 AM here, so in the morning I'm going to have to re-read all of this...smile.

 

Thanks for everything, and I'm sure we'll talk again. Also, when you get your site up to drop ship. I'd like to hear about it.

 

Best,

 

LC