bpzle 0 Posted January 23, 2011 BTW- I meant no offense Carl. Seriously... I respect your opinions and look forward to reading the next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) BTW- I meant no offense Carl. Seriously... I respect your opinions and look forward to reading the next. None taken. Soundy's and my points about the nearly immeasurable differences between passive baluns is one aspect. Regarding the potential longevity of baluns, they are extremely simple devices that consist of a transformer, circuit board, connector(s) and maybe a ceramic capacitor or two. Except for mechanical problems or possible poor assembly, there is nothing in them that has any lifespan limitations (ie. active circuitry, electrolytic capacitors, etc.). NVT and Nitek both tend to use scare tactics similar to Monster Cable. My favorite discussion with a Best Buy employee illustrates this. He said, "If you use cheap HDMI cables to hook up your expensive 3D TV, you can destroy it." BS! Cables are cables; especially digital. They either work or they don't. They're not going to damage the equipment. One year I attended a UTP "class" at ISC West that was put on by NVT. What a load of self-serving crap! They used basically the same kinds of arguments to try to discourage us from purchasing other brands of baluns. At the time, the price difference was huge: $200+ for NVT's vs. maybe $25-30 for other brands. By the way, we usually use either GVI or VBU (Video Baluns Unlimited) baluns. They're both well made, relatively inexpensive and have IDC connectors for the UTP. The advantage versus, say, Vigitron is that no tools are required - no stripping; no screws to tighten, etc. The only issue is that they are not easy to fit in dense BNC connector boards like our Pelco MDAs or patch panels. Edited January 23, 2011 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted January 23, 2011 What do you guys think of NVTs multi channel recievers/trancievers and their claims of ground loop isolation etc.? I guess I never really looked to NVT for passive to passive baluns. So is their other gear any good in the field? Its expensive for certain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bpzle 0 Posted January 23, 2011 NVT and Nitek both tend to use scare tactics similar to Monster Cable. My favorite discussion with a Best Buy employee illustrates this. He said, "If you use cheap HDMI cables to hook up your expensive 3D TV, you can destroy it." BS! Cables are cables; especially digital. They either work or they don't. They're not going to damage the equipment. One year I attended a UTP "class" at ISC West that was put on by NVT. What a load of self-serving crap! They used basically the same kinds of arguments to try to discourage us from purchasing other brands of baluns. At the time, the price difference was huge: $200+ for NVT's vs. maybe $25-30 for other brands. LOL!!! YES! " title="Applause" /> I would do ANYTHING to be a fly on the wall and observe a conversation between YOU and any big box electronic store sale's guy! Better yet... a Monster Cable sales rep!!!! As a 25 year old might say, "THAT GUY WOULD TOTALLY GET PWNED!" PWNED definition: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted January 23, 2011 Ground loop isolation is a good thing but luckily, ground loops have not been an issue with us. Every input in our system is isolated due to our use of Pelco CM9760-MDA's for every analog input. We didn't originally buy the MDA's for that purpose; it was to put synchronized time and date and camera numbers on our VCRs. It was only later that I realized that the isolated and buffered inputs prevented ground loops - even on very long runs of cable. That said, I would assume that NVT makes excellent, if expensive, hubs; both active and passive. We are using Pelco CM9700UTP 32-channel active receivers for our long UTP runs (over 1000'). They work quite well and require no per-channel adjustments for differing cable lengths but are sensitive to RFI from our two-way radio repeaters. Which brings up another issue with me: I used to love Pelco - good products and excellent support. No longer! Ever since Schneider bought them, they have been going downhill. They still make certain items that are among the best but they will be losing much of our business. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted January 23, 2011 I would do ANYTHING to be a fly on the wall and observe a conversation between YOU and any big box electronic store sale's guy! Better yet... a Monster Cable sales rep!!!! As a 25 year old might say, "THAT GUY WOULD TOTALLY GET PWNED!" PWNED definition: One time, I told one of their salesman he was "a glorified shoe salesman". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted January 25, 2011 Ground loop isolation is a good thing but luckily, ground loops have not been an issue with us. Every input in our system is isolated due to our use of Pelco CM9760-MDA's for every analog input. We didn't originally buy the MDA's for that purpose; it was to put synchronized time and date and camera numbers on our VCRs. It was only later that I realized that the isolated and buffered inputs prevented ground loops - even on very long runs of cable. That said, I would assume that NVT makes excellent, if expensive, hubs; both active and passive. We are using Pelco CM9700UTP 32-channel active receivers for our long UTP runs (over 1000'). They work quite well and require no per-channel adjustments for differing cable lengths but are sensitive to RFI from our two-way radio repeaters. Which brings up another issue with me: I used to love Pelco - good products and excellent support. No longer! Ever since Schneider bought them, they have been going downhill. They still make certain items that are among the best but they will be losing much of our business. As far as cost, the Nitek 32 channel active receiver hub (also with ground loop isolation) is about $1000 less than the Pelco....I do agree that Nitek and NVT are probably overpriced, but I'm not sure that they are all the way into "Monster Cable" territory, as they do seem to have notably better performance, at least in our experience. I feel your pain on Pelco, I'm less than five miles from their headquarters, and I'm using less and less of their products, as both their quality and product availability are diminishing rapidly. Even very normal items (IS90, IS110 series domes, etc.) often have a lead time of weeks, now..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted January 25, 2011 Even very normal items (IS90, IS110 series domes, etc.) often have a lead time of weeks, now..... No great loss Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted January 25, 2011 [As far as cost, the Nitek 32 channel active receiver hub (also with ground loop isolation) is about $1000 less than the Pelco....I do agree that Nitek and NVT are probably overpriced, but I'm not sure that they are all the way into "Monster Cable" territory, as they do seem to have notably better performance, at least in our experience.We couldn't pass up the deal Pelco offered. We originally bought the 24 TW3004P 4-channel active receivers in RK5000 chassis. What garbage! We had continuous issues with power losses, burned contacts and video messing up so Pelco (to their credit) replaced them with three CM9700UTP32AUS 32-channel active receivers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted January 25, 2011 Even very normal items (IS90, IS110 series domes, etc.) often have a lead time of weeks, now..... No great loss I tend to agree, but we have customers here with several hundred of them in place that have issues that we have to address (on service contract). Even walking them in to Pelco's service department isn't what it used to be..... There is also a fair amount of brand loyalty to Pelco here, as they are one of our larger regional employers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
survtech 0 Posted January 25, 2011 There is also a fair amount of brand loyalty to Pelco here...Fading fast here! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted January 25, 2011 There is also a fair amount of brand loyalty to Pelco here...Fading fast here! By here, I meant regionally... Not in our office, for sure! About the only Pelco product I'll spec for a new install is the EH3512 enclosure. With something from Sanyo, Panasonic, Arecont (yes, I'm even placing Arecont over Pelco, now!), CNB, etc. in it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted January 25, 2011 We installed a ton of IS110s for our largest customer a few years ago (their spec). The following summer at least a half-dozen of them died (all in direct sun). We put CNBs in while the Pelcos went out for warranty repair. After the first three, we just left the CNBs in place... they've been working fine ever since. We've replaced a number of other IS110s with CNBs when they've failed, too. Besides that, that stupid spring-clip that holds the camera assembly in the housing is just retarded. And don't even get me started on the submini-TS service port that they don't give you a cable for, and worse, bury away in the bottom of the IS90s... I will say, the EH35xx housings are our go-to models for outdoor housings (3508s for the thin IP cameras, like IQ511s), and the CC3701H-2 is still a really good box cam (as long as you don't try to use their frustrating-to-attach snazzy wall/ceiling mount for it). Pelco's not all bad, but I swear they let engineers design the cameras top-to-bottom... guys that have never had to actually INSTALL one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted January 25, 2011 We installed a ton of IS110s for our largest customer a few years ago (their spec). The following summer at least a half-dozen of them died (all in direct sun). The July average high temperature here is 96.6F, with peaks at 115F+.... We bake quite a few different cameras here. That really makes temperature failures inexcusable for Pelco, though, I have seen all their different models hanging on the outside of their building! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeromephone 6 Posted January 25, 2011 I would check out PI MFg they have a whole array of active passive baluns we have used the passive and had no problems. Somebody told me about a trick they saw on the internet comparing monster speaker cables with another setup identical sound etc. Turns out the other setup was a rig made with coat hangers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted January 26, 2011 Somebody told me about a trick they saw on the internet comparing monster speaker cables with another setup identical sound etc. Turns out the other setup was a rig made with coat hangers http://consumerist.com/2008/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEANHAWG 1 Posted January 26, 2011 I was also under the impression that Pelco has lost its appeal that it once had. It seems that they dont have the massive presence like they used to have. I dont know if its because there are more major players in the IP camera field or what but it just seems they have tapered off a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted January 26, 2011 Don't even get me started on Pelco's IP cameras. I tested a Sarix dome a while back and was NOT impressed. Aside from the *really neat* live RBG histogram, it didn't seem to do anything special, or have overly spectacular quality, certainly not worth the price they wanted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
