IR blur on Axis P1344?

[mike_va 0]

I have an Axis P1344 which I just bought, because I have a P3344 that works well for the front driveway with the lights that are outside of the house.

 

The P1344 is just sitting inside, pointing out the back window to cover the walk up basement. I've just started playing with this and placement is not final. I cropped the pic on the right side, the yellow box is just what triggered the capture.

 

Outside there is a Lorex IR camera mounted under the porch, I discovered it's IR light would be picked up by the P1344 at night. As a result it actually sees much better than the Lorex at night.

 

However, the focus changes. If I adjust it at night it is not in focus during the day. Do I need a different IR-type lens?

 

The Lorex does not seem to have this problem, although it is not a high resolution camera (P1344 or even some CNB's I've been playing with surpass easily). It has the lens that came with it, Tamron megapixel auto iris.

 

Thanks, Mike

[bpzle 0]

Just focus is at night. Its a true day night camera, that's not uncommon to have focus shift at night.

[mike_va 0]

Thanks for the input. The P3344 does not seem to do this (to this degree at least), it is using white (mostly fluorescent) lights out front.

 

On the P1344, trying to figure out if it is

-due to lens (IR shift, I can buy another lens). I do not have experience in this area so not sure how much focus shift to expect

-due to looking through back (glass) window + IR scene at night. i.e. does the window have an effect (I plan to try to determine this weekend)

-nature of the camera (TDN), which might be a small contributor if it is the same design as the P3344

 

Mike

[bpzle 0]

Your lens should be fine, just focus the camera at night. That lens will have little thumb set screws where you can temporarily loosen the focus ring and be able to adjust focus.

 

The only way the window would mess things up is if the camera had an auto focus, where it may see a reflection or dirt on the window and try to automatically focus on the window instead of objects in the distance. However, I don't think that camera has an auto focus... but I may be wrong. If it does, disable it so you can manually focus it.

[mike_va 0]

I tried focusing again at night, still have the same thing going on i.e. it is then out of focus during the day. Going to try an IR corrected lens perhaps not megapixel and see how that turns out, just trying to keep from wasting money.

 

If that fails to solve things, I'll just put some motion operated floods. Seems kind of brute force, the flood I have now with only a single PAR puts the 1344 back in to color. In which case perhaps not the best spot for a TDN, and I could have done it with a less expensive camera?

 

I also like the IR cameras I have now (as illuminators) because the light is somewhat visible at night which may be a deterrent in the back. They are Lorex though and the resolution is really poor.

 

Mike

[mike_va 0]

Your lens should be fine, just focus the camera at night. That lens will have little thumb set screws where you can temporarily loosen the focus ring and be able to adjust focus.

 

Camera was first focused at night, with the IR off. Color was forced on by turning on a flood light (IR on or off makes no difference here). Is this normal?

 

pic 1 - IR off, window open (in focus)

 

pic 2 - IR on, window closed (in focus)

 

pic 3 - IR on, window open (in focus)

 

pic 4 - IR on, window closed (out of focus)

 

pic 5 - IR on, window open (out of focus)

[mike_va 0]

Had to put pics 4 and 5 in a seperate post

[rory 0]

As this is also an IR camera, focus in color, then check with Infrared in pitch dark, if it needs to be a little clearer, adjust it a very small amount. Switch back and forth until it is optimal. Other than that a Day Night IR corrected lens should fix the problem with focus shift. That said I dont know what other features the camera might have which may also be causing an issue. I normally focus a wide FOV in a controlled environment such as my garage. I can do this in the day then turn the lights on and off, and also stick the camera outside to test the IRIS level and focus. For low light only I just leave the door open a little. Some camera/lens setups can be a PITA and just take some time.

[rory 0]

-due to looking through back (glass) window + IR scene at night. i.e. does the window have an effect (I plan to try to determine this weekend)

Are you focusing it through the window?

[mike_va 0]

Are you focusing it through the window?

 

I honestly can't remember for certain. However, it remains focused with the window open or closed. It is only when I go to color that it goes out of focus.

[mike_va 0]

As this is also an IR camera, focus in color, then check with Infrared in pitch dark, if it needs to be a little clearer, adjust it a very small amount. Switch back and forth until it is optimal. Other than that a Day Night IR corrected lens should fix the problem with focus shift. That said I dont know what other features the camera might have which may also be causing an issue.

 

That's how I started out (focus in color) but the BW was out of focus at night.

 

There is also an auto focus built into the camera, that's what I used this last time just for a touch of fine tuning. Prior to that it all times had been manual focus. Perhaps this is a back focus? If it is going to shift around I wonder if they could just have two settings like some cameras?

 

There is other weirdness, in that the shutter settings are called out in the P1344 help menu but do not exist. I looked in the exact same spot on my P3344 and they are there on the P3344.

 

Also the P3344 has a calibrate function under system options/maintenance/calibrate, the P1344 does not mention calibrate in the help.

[rory 0]

Disable the auto focus, as that must be causing it to go back out of focus as it is placed against the window. Disable AI if you can, enable EI if it has that option. Or you can manually remove the AI from the lens normally and then place it back when done. If it has some shutter settings, make sure it is not going into a slow shutter mode to compensate for low light, that can cause blur. Set the defaults and everything to manual if you can, Then focus, you can always make the other changes later without effecting the focus - but if it has auto focus then its not a regular varifocal or fixed lens?

[mike_va 0]

It's a varifocal lens, here are the camera's focus settings.

 

Although I've got admit, when I first set it up I just used the adjustments on the lens.

 

The second time I used the lens to get it close, and then pushed the autofocus button. I'll see if I can talk my girlfriend into making some adjustments tonight although it is getting late.

[mike_va 0]

Other than that a Day Night IR corrected lens should fix the problem with focus shift...Some camera/lens setups can be a PITA and just take some time.

 

Well, we just tried it with the window open per their direction, and closed. Still the same problem. I don't think it is IR related, as the pics look about the same. The problem is when in color (daylight mode being activated via a flood light), it is out of focus compared to night.

[rory 0]

Well this isnt a normal camera and lens, so it will vary.

Click the advanced tab and see what options it gives you?

[mike_va 0]

Well this isnt a normal camera and lens, so it will vary.

Click the advanced tab and see what options it gives you?

 

Pretty much the same, you can manually focus though.

 

This amount of delta in focus is surprising, I'd rather leave it in night mode but for this amount of money...

[mike_va 0]

Pictures from this morning, through the window. B&W I manually set the IR filter to OFF and it is in focus.

[mike_va 0]

Well, I figured out why I could not see the shutter settings. On this camera you have to set exposure priority to motion then they appear.

 

Indoors today the problem did not seem as bad, then I discovered a few important things:

 

1 - the lens despite looking nice on the camera was not screwed down all the way. Rotated perhaps another 45 degrees. (Edit - I now realize it may have been screwed down, but will continue to rotate)

 

2- engaging/disengaging the IR cut filter you hear a click then a faint whirring (the latter you have to have your ear right next to the camera). Perhaps this is automatic back focus. And perhaps at night looking through the window it was not working well.

 

With the lens tightened down it stays in focus pretty well looking at an indoor scene (i.e. not through glass). I really appreciate all the forum help getting me this far. Filled out a ticket with Axis but they have not gotten back to me (although in fairness it is Thanksgiving weekend so was not expecting a lot).

 

Tonight will perform more experiments.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Guest

[mike_va 0]

Well, tonight it does not seem as bad but it is still there to an unacceptable amount (case tried through the glass and with IR present).

 

Switching from color (via flood light) to b&w it is STILL unfocused in b&w. However, if I hit the autofocus in b&w it is then OK but going back to color it is unfocused...

[cglaeser 0]

However, if I hit the autofocus in b&w it is then OK but going back to color it is unfocused...

 

I'm not surprised. Many lenses are not IR corrected, and even those that are IR corrected have limits. That's why some cameras use two back focus settings, one for the day and one for night (e.g. Panasonic 502). I have an Axis 223M (manual focus only) and I just split the difference. It takes a bit of playing around to find the sweet spot.

 

Best,

Christopher

[mike_va 0]

It takes a bit of playing around to find the sweet spot.

 

Yep, I'm still not there yet. Tonight the camera is outside, no IR just one flood. Switching it back and forth using the IR cut filter. Can't get it focused in both. When it is focus amazing, just what one pays all this money for...

 

The first two represent focused in color, then switch to b&w.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Guest

[mike_va 0]

This represents focused in b&w, then switched to color:

[mike_va 0]

Further experimentation with another lens (Tamron Varifocal Auto-Iris) yielded the same results.

 

Also, the lens I thought was not tight might have been. It appears the lens once tightened down will still rotate.

[cglaeser 0]

Further experimentation with another lens (Tamron Varifocal Auto-Iris) yielded the same results.

 

I did a quick read of the manual and as best I can tell, there is only one focus setting (not two for visible and IR). Unless you can find an acceptable sweet spot, I guess your best option is to use the best IR corrected lens you can find. FWIW, I have an Axis megapixel camera and it's always been a reliable performer, but I've never considered Axis to be a strong competitor at night. FWIW.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

This represents focused in b&w, then switched to color:

 

Both are out of focus though. The BW seems to be somewhat focused on a couple objects but everything else is out of whack.