POS text overlay on video. Need help & Recomendation

[Kablooie 0]

I have experience with both text overlay and searchable databases. I perform some loss prevention services for some clients and I really don't prefer one over the other, just as long as the text can be exported along with video and viewed during playback - especially when presenting the video on disc to a third party, such as the police.

 

 

In my opinion a better way to find theft is to look at the transaction data right from the POS database itself. When you know what to look for you can review an entire day's worth of transactions in 20-30 minutes, then go to the DVR and review transactions that look suspicious. I do this on a dual monitor setup and it works great.

 

I hope I'm making myself clear with this. The bottom line is that a searchable database on the DVR can be useful, but it's only as good as the data it captures....and it may not capture everything. The POS system captures everything. What I want to see when reviewing video is that the final receipt includes everything the customer has purchased. If the receipt shows 1 drink, but the customer walks away with 4 salads, well, that's a problem and it may not be reflected in the DVR database.

 

 

that type of pos search is so old . a searchable database is much faster and better.

Searching via the POS database or DVR database - what's the difference? You still need to search through data and will see more info via the POS database. The only advantage I see to a searchable DVR database is the ability to click on the text and go straight to the associated video. Nice feature, but in my opinion it's really not much of a big deal. In reality it saves a few seconds. When viewing video for loss prevention there are 3 things that need to be seen: 1 - what was rung up, 2 - what the customer walks away with, 3 - what the employee does with the money.

[Soundy 1]

Searching via the POS database or DVR database - what's the difference? You still need to search through data and will see more info via the POS database. The only advantage I see to a searchable DVR database is the ability to click on the text and go straight to the associated video. Nice feature, but in my opinion it's really not much of a big deal. In reality it saves a few seconds.

Have you actually USED the feature? Depending on how the DVR handles timeline searches, it could make a HUGE difference. You look at the POS database, find the time you want, go to the DVR, enter the time... depending on the DVR, you may have to enter a start AND end time... then you hit search and view the results. And this only works "easily" if the DVR and POS clocks are precisely synchronized.

 

Or you just look at the line of POS data... click it, and there's the video.

 

Consider the other feature of using data captured on the DVR: as you play the video, the relevant data is highlighted. You watch the cashier scan an object... and instantly the corresponding line item is highlighted. Very handy if, for example, you suspect someone is scanning fake barcodes.... or if they're ringing through one item when there are actually two. Sure you could do it the other way, looking at the POS itself... but it's nowhere near as efficient.

 

When viewing video for loss prevention there are 3 things that need to be seen: 1 - what was rung up, 2 - what the customer walks away with, 3 - what the employee does with the money.

That pretty generalized... what if you need to see that what was shows up on the POS was what was actually scanned? Pretty simple trick - pull a stick-on barcode off a cheap item, stick it on a more expensive item...

[Kablooie 0]

Have you actually USED the feature?

Yes, every week. I have systems with searchable database and others with overlay. Been involved with loss prevention for about 6 years.

 

We can communicate with the POS systems and sales data is transferred to a back office computer. This sales data contains every function that was performed on the POS, including data that is not customer related and might never reach the pole display or receipt printer, like performing reconciliations, inventory adjustments, time clock info, employee productivity, average sale, units sold, types of product sold etc. It can be drilled down to exact individual items being sold. For instance, I caught someone stealing in a restaurant. This person hardly ever rang in drinks. At an average of $1.89 + tax she was stealing $200 a week this way. The DVR database will not show this, but with the POS data you can run a report showing the average check per employee and types of items being sold. Much more powerful.

 

what if you need to see that what was shows up on the POS was what was actually scanned?

Uh, yeah, that's what I said: 1 - what was rung up, 2 - what the customer walks away with. If you see a $1 item rung up and the customer walks away with a $20 item there's a problem with the employee. Then, 3 - what the employee does with the money. It's really that simple.

[Soundy 1]

For instance, I caught someone stealing in a restaurant. This person hardly ever rang in drinks. At an average of $1.89 + tax she was stealing $200 a week this way. The DVR database will not show this, but with the POS data you can run a report showing the average check per employee and types of items being sold.

Sure the POS system can run a report... that doesn't make going back and forth from one machine to the other looking up individual transactions a more efficient process, that just helps you determine who or what to look for. You're still talking about two different functions.

[Kablooie 0]

Soundy, it can all be done from the same computer. A dual monitor setup (or a decent sized widescreen, 20" or larger) works perfectly for this. One one screen I'll view all the POS data, on the other I'm logged on to the DVR and viewing video. The searchable DVR database is a nice feature as I can search for a transaction number on a specific date, but I can just as easily go to a specific date & time on the video also.

 

I'm not knocking having a searchable database. As I've said I think it's a useful feature, just not always necessary.

[Soundy 1]

Still sounds like a lot of extra work, going back and forth between two apps.

[johnty 0]

Soundy, it can all be done from the same computer. A dual monitor setup (or a decent sized widescreen, 20" or larger) works perfectly for this. One one screen I'll view all the POS data, on the other I'm logged on to the DVR and viewing video. .

 

exactly my plan... Also you can improvise the same scenario via live streaming..

I'll try it after my exam finishes... after 16th dec..

[tomcctv 190]

Soundy, it can all be done from the same computer. A dual monitor setup (or a decent sized widescreen, 20" or larger) works perfectly for this. One one screen I'll view all the POS data, on the other I'm logged on to the DVR and viewing video. .

 

exactly my plan... Also you can improvise the same scenario via live streaming..

I'll try it after my exam finishes... after 16th dec..

 

 

 

so its not pos for your cctv. this is a silly idea. i thought you wanted the pos so as you can spend more time away from your shop.......... think about it ..... you are going to have to watch 24/7 with your set-up.

 

live dvr video on 1 screen and the other screen live pos data.

 

so in your post you have a standard till (no back office set-up) and your till is not windows based.

 

you are best changing your dvr card to one that does pos. and save your money

[tomcctv 190]

Soundy, it can all be done from the same computer. A dual monitor setup (or a decent sized widescreen, 20" or larger) works perfectly for this. One one screen I'll view all the POS data, on the other I'm logged on to the DVR and viewing video. The searchable DVR database is a nice feature as I can search for a transaction number on a specific date, but I can just as easily go to a specific date & time on the video also.

 

I'm not knocking having a searchable database. As I've said I think it's a useful feature, just not always necessary.

 

Kablooie. that is not a simple as you make out. 1. the dvr sould just be used as a dvr only. for what you are saying you would have to take the data from the till convert it to text (software) also be able to store (hard/drive) then give it another screen output. and at the end it still can not be searchable (it a standard till no back office) and for the cost it would be better to use a text overlay or change the card to a card that has full pos search and store.

 

 

and a dvr card with pos search will give all the info you need.

 

1 text overlay on video

2 searchable by word or stock code....... put in chips will show you how many have been sold that day or can of coke

3 highlight void/no sale/ till open

4 will also give a copy of recipt given to customer

 

and doing it that way will be cheaper than anything else.

[Kablooie 0]

Kablooie. that is not a simple as you make out.

Yes, it is actually.

 

1. the dvr sould just be used as a dvr only.

The DVR is used as a DVR only. The DVR and POS systems are separate.

 

POS data can be viewed from a remote location, just like the DVR can. However, I have the POS database backed up to a remote computer via an automated process on a daily basis. Transfering the POS database from the remote computer to my computer takes seconds (compressed text, very small files). In fact, I transfer the POS data from 20 different locations to my computer as another backup 3-4 times per week. It took me longer to type this paragraph than it does to transfer the database info.

 

for what you are saying you would have to take the data from the till convert it to text (software) also be able to store (hard/drive) then give it another screen output.

NO. I think there's a misunderstanding. The data from the "till" (POS database actually) is already a text based database. Let me elaborate.

1 - DVR is a DVR. It records video and text (overlay or searchable depending on the DVR).

2 - POS system is a Windows based system running POS software. All data is saved in a database, which is essentially text (the database files can be opened using Notepad or Excel if desired, but won't have the proper formatting).

3 - The POS database can be accessed via the local network or even with a laptop over the Internet. Accessing the POS database is as simple as accessing the DVR remotely. (Off topic: I also have it setup so the POS database is backed up locally as well as to an off-site location at regular intervals in case something happens to the POS system, hard drive crash for instance. This occurs seemlessly in the background).

4 - The owner's laptop, office computer, home computer (even my office & home computers) all have the DVR client software and POS software installed. With a dual monitor setup I can have the POS software running on one and DVR on the other. I can load the POS database within seconds and have everything at my fingertips. I can look at the POS database on the left monitor while running the DVR client on the right monitor. I can set search criteria in the POS software and watch video at the same time. It's very simple, easy to do and makes a searchable DVR database irrelevent.

 

Having a searchable database on the DVR is a nice feature, but not having it doesn't make much difference to me. Overlay is fine. All I need to see is if what the customer walks away with matches what the employee rang up. if it doesn't, there's a problem and I need to see what the employee does with the money.

 

Now, you need to understand that the POS software has more reporting features than the DVR. I can generate reports up the wazoo and display the information any way I want. It goes way beyond searching a DVR database for corrections, voids, no sales, how many cans of coke or chips were sold, etc.

 

As an example, here is how I caught a person stealing $200 in fountain drinks within a week. For this week, the cost of goods sold for fountain syrup was high (something the DVR won't tell you). I ran a report using the POS database showing a food/drink ratio broken down by employee (took around 30 seconds, and again, this is info the DVR database will not show). The ratio for Jane Doe was very low. I ran another report (another 30 seconds) showing all the transactions rung up by Jane. Hardly any drinks were rung up - it's like she forgot the drink button existed. So, now I turn to the video to see what's going on. Sure enough, customers are getting drinks with their food purchase, but she doesn't ring the drinks in. She knows all the prices and knows how much change to give. Each time she does this it's $2 in her pocket. 20 times a day and it's $40.

 

Now, in that example, a searchable DVR database would do me absolutely no good. It can't run the reports which allowed me to zero in on an employee within a minute or two. Let's say I relied solely on the DVR database though, what the heck would I search for? This person was not voiding items, she wasn't ringing them in, charging the customer and pocketing the money. Without seeing the initial food/drink sales ratio per employee I'd be looking at alot of video to find what I was searching for. The searchable DVR database came in handy when I wanted to look at certain transaction numbers, but I could just have easily input the date & time also.

 

and at the end it still can not be searchable (it a standard till no back office)

It is most definitely and positively is searchable, as explained above.

 

and for the cost it would be better to use a text overlay or change the card to a card that has full pos search and store.

 

and a dvr card with pos search will give all the info you need.

 

1 text overlay on video

2 searchable by word or stock code....... put in chips will show you how many have been sold that day or can of coke

3 highlight void/no sale/ till open

4 will also give a copy of recipt given to customer

 

and doing it that way will be cheaper than anything else.

As explained above, the POS database does this and much, much more. It too has every receipt, printed or not printed, with every voided & corrected item. Now, I'm not sure about doing it that way being "cheaper than anything else". With all the potential theft that can be missed by solely relying the DVR database I think it might end up being more expensive than imagined. If there's one thing I've learned it's that theives are very crafty. They teach me new ways to steal all the time.

 

Bottom line - on my computer (in my office) I have 2 monitors connected. The POS database is on the left screen & DVR video on the right screen. I run reports w/ the POS software (reports that can't be run w/ the DVR) that allow me to identify issues very quickly. As I'm looking at data on the left I'm watching video on the right. It's really very simple.

[tomcctv 190]

Kablooie.

 

talk me though how you would get this till to display pos text (decoded) and visable on a screen. then explain how it would be searchable.

 

 

[rory 0]

that type of pos search is so old . a searchable database is much faster and better.

most of the bars and clubs down here are still using a Canadian DOS based version of a liquor control system called AzBar. They do have newer versions and Windows POS but the clients here just arent willing to spend what it costs to upgrade all the boards/chips. Im still having to mess with Win98 it is so annoying especially with new hardware and lack of drivers for 98 and having to deal with Serial ports in 98 along with brown outs that keep frying them .. then cant get any PCI serial port cards or USB serial port adapters to work in 98 anymore due to lack of all the motherboard drivers. Ok rant over .. so yeah how old is that again

[rory 0]

all this arguing over staff stealing .. which dont get me wrong is a HUGE problem here also .. but what about the guys that come in with the machine guns and masks over their faces? They wont be taking $10 they will be taking the whole register.

 

Otherwise, in a case here though regarding the register they just have cameras zoomed right in on it, so they can see the money in the drawer and the register's display, something is up they just go back to that time and look at the register camera.

[Kablooie 0]

Kablooie.

 

talk me though how you would get this till to display pos text (decoded) and visable on a screen. then explain how it would be searchable.

 

 

Ha ha ah - I'm not talking about an oversized calculator with a cash drawer.

[tomcctv 190]

Kablooie.

 

talk me though how you would get this till to display pos text (decoded) and visable on a screen. then explain how it would be searchable.

 

 

Ha ha ah - I'm not talking about an oversized calculator with a cash drawer.

 

 

 

 

kablooie. that is what we are talking about. a standard till. you are giving advice on back office tills. so its like i said it is cheaper to install a text overlay or swap out his dvr card that does pos. to collect the data from the serial port of his till.

[Kablooie 0]

Kablooie.

 

talk me though how you would get this till to display pos text (decoded) and visable on a screen. then explain how it would be searchable.

 

 

Ha ha ah - I'm not talking about an oversized calculator with a cash drawer.

 

 

 

 

kablooie. that is what we are talking about. a standard till. you are giving advice on back office tills. so its like i said it is cheaper to install a text overlay or swap out his dvr card that does pos. to collect the data from the serial port of his till.

Umm, maybe the original post needs to be reviewed again? I guess maybe some information from the original post wasn't fully understood. The topic started out with this:

I would like to update the old cash register with a new touch screen one and also would like it to connect it with the cctv system.

I'm sorry, but I don't see the touchscreen on that casio calculator. Touchscreen POS systems are typically Windows or Linux based systems, essentially computers with POS software on them. Casio also makes them:

 

[tomcctv 190]

I have another idea.. not very glamorous but works.

 

Get a serial port monitor. leave the programme open on desktop and the stream the desktop

I know it is not stamping onto the video or connected in anyway to the cctv system how ever watching the CCTV remotely the data stream will be running in other window..

 

I am gonna try it first and hopefully will post the video stream here too..

 

serial port monitor ??????? how. you say in your post you are getting a new touch till ............... your output is vga. (your going to be on a windows system) how are you going to record the data from the till. if you have a problem in your shop and the police want footage or you want footage of money going missing it must be in the same picture (text overlay) with timestamp in the uk.

 

you are right I said I am thinking about it. now as I am getting familiar with the all the process I really do not need to change the register . [Now only if I need to]

 

Now any printer that can send data to pole watcher or most importantly to printer, that output port can be monitored. doesn't matter what type of port is it.

 

I do not worry about police thing just sack the the bugger stealing money from me..

[Kablooie 0]

tomcctv, come on man, that was 9 hours and 10 posts after my first post in this thread. What are you grabbing at?

 

Alot of subject was covered in that timeframe....and then we started on this tangent. It's a good thing in a way as alot of good information has been posted concerning capturing information from the "till", whether it be a glorified calculator or something more robust, like a complete PC based POS system that does more than just ring in sales.

 

There are multiple ways of accomplishing a goal. In cases where a complete PC based POS system is concerned, a searchable DVR database is convenient, but not always necessary. In many cases it can't come close to the data stored in the POS system and certainly can't produce all the detailed reports the PC based POS system can produce. It's all part of establishing an effective loss prevention program. What I do is relatively easy, but it's not how easy it is, it's how effective it is when utilized properly. Might be much different from what you're used to, and that's OK. There's always something new to learn.

[tomcctv 190]

kablooie. lets just leave the post alone. am getting board with it. and am not the person having problems with pos integration. never had a problem with it.

[Campbell 0]

Post stands after further reading.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Skimmed through the past 3 pages. Theres a lot of text.

 

NUUO offer the SCB-C31. Their software can run the feed of the transaction over the camera feed without the need for dual monitors. Why make things harder than they already are.

 

In addtion to that, you can search the transactions via select events such as cash draw opens, employee id number and a whole host of other optional variables which is determined by the till feed.

 

Is this what you were after mate?

 

You said you'd be willing to change your DVR.

 

NUUO do the pos overlay system VERY well. I'm heading out to one of the premises running this system so I'll take some screens for you to show you how it works.

 

The basic system runs as follow. You run a null modem RS232 cable from the serial port to the SCB-C31 NUUO box. From there you can run ethernet back to the DVR/NVR NUUO Main Console will integrate everything for you. You'll need to tinker with the feed a little bit first to get it displaying in a recognisable format. Once you have that you can set identifiers and alarms dependent on what is happening with the transaction.

[leozhang88 0]

much better to set up a individual CCTV system, using standalone dvr to connect internet. more stable and reliable....

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

no i dont think you understand .............. each manufactura till maker has differant codes ............ there is software called pos capture but you still cant read it. unless you have a text box. you can pull the data of your till but you need to convert it. IT DOES NOT COME OUT OF YOUR TILL AS TEXT.

 

This also can be done with software parser that will take each manufacturer proprietary codes and convert to text file... There are converter boxes available specific to POS manufacturer system, but extremely expensive... whereas with software parser it is much simpler..

[DeDanan 0]

Hi

What the guys are saying above is correct and the searchable database is very useful.

But if you just want to “burn” the information on to the video image you can do this by using a till scan unit i am sure you can get one from Tomcctv if you PM him. I have used these type of systems before “DVR” in the “vcr” days, they connect to the till and take the information going to the print journal or display, the video feed from the camera is routed through the interface box before the recording device. It simply burns the till information on to the image.

Regards

[fiickdotcom 0]

I am looking for a POS solution where the text from the overlay unit can be exported to mini USB port of a tablet in which an app can read this text.

Is it possible? Can you tell me what would be required: programming and hardware?

Thanks so much

Peter

[carlscast 0]

Hi guys i have the same problem with hd-sdi pro hs, the POS text inserter is coming with 4 port usb and up, but for any reason i can't make it work for ampm gas station POS.. any help will be appreciate it ..thank you ..