IP camera question acti 1231

[JohnEF 0]

I've had a problem the past several months with people driving by at night and shattering liquor bottles all over my driveway and yard. One night, my car was even vandalized by who I assume are the same people. Well, I set up a cctv system with a dedicated comp to run 24/7 with dvr software and like a hundred dollar camera. Was feeling pretty good about this until they did it again and I caught them on tape. Problem is, the video is practically useless since it's so low quality. I can't even make out the make of the car. I only know a bottle came from that particular car because I could hear it shatter with the mic.

 

So now I'm looking at adding an IP camera that might actually catch something useful. My price range was roughly around 500-600 and I was looking at the acti 1231 or the vivotek 7361. It seems it's extremely difficult to find a lot of information about IP cameras on the internet and what each particular model is capable of. Ideally, something that could catch a license plate off of a moving car at night is what I need. But are either of those two cameras capable of that? If not, how much would I have to spend on a camera to get that? I have a 100-150 watt high pressure sodium lamp that's on all night over the garage and my driveway is about 45 feet long, so it isn't pitch black outside.

[JohnEF 0]

Oh yeah, one more question I forgot to ask about. How do these cameras do viewing through a window? I have a second story window that has a good view of the front of the house and street and obviously I could get a better camera for the same price if it wasn't an outdoor camera. How does viewing through a window affect the performance of these cameras at night if all the inside lights are off and obviously the window is clean. I'm less concerned with performance during the day. Does the window degrade quality of the image, etc?

[bpzle 0]

Shooting through windows is fine, as long as the glassis clean. However, don't ever use a camera with integrated IR such as the 1231.

 

Also, be aware that the closer the traget area is, the shorter the mounting location should be... unless your goal is to capture the tops of people's heads.

[JohnEF 0]

How come I don't want a camera with integrated IR? Is that to say I don't want IR at all if the camera is inside?

 

 

I don't really care about day performance at all. What would be the best camera for night performance in the same price range as a acti 1231?

[bpzle 0]

If you want to mount in a window, the ir will refect bk into the lens and destroy cam at night

[Sawbones 0]

If you want to mount in a window, the ir will refect bk into the lens and destroy cam at night

 

Truth, right there.

 

However, the LEDs in the Acti 1231 can be unplugged:

 

[FEN_FAN 0]

Maybe try ACTi ACM/TCM-5611 from inside, and IR Illuminator outside = same money, but better night image.

 

Or You can Try GeoVision BX220D - Full HD ~1100 TVL (tested ) Day/Night Cam

[rory 0]

If you want to mount in a window, the ir will refect bk into the lens and destroy cam at night

 

Truth, right there.

 

However, the LEDs in the Acti 1231 can be unplugged:

 

 

Yeah but like most current TDN IR bullets does that also disable the Day Night feature? Eg. many will stay in BW if you do that now and never switch over.

[bpzle 0]

Rory's right.... there's a photocell on that board. Can't remember if the camera uses that just for the IR to kick on or also uses it to switch beween day/ night.

 

On my analog cams there's a feature in the OSD to use video level or to use the photocell. I don't think that option exists in ACTi's configuration...

[JohnEF 0]

Ok, sorry for the stupid questions but I'm a total noob. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

 

Now I'm looking at the arecont 3130 because it's in my price range and I've seen it recommended a lot here. I see one on amazon but it says no lens. Does that mean I have to buy a lens to go with it for it to work at all? If so, how much does that cost and where do I get that? Also, it doesn't appear to have built in IR light. What will the outdoor image look like if I didn't get an outside IR light source? Like I said there is a 100watt high pressure sodium lamp outside. I'm looking at http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11322 this thread and I see thewireguy has posted some night pics of the arecont 3130. Are those through a window without added IR light? Or is there an IR light source?

 

Also, how much of a difference does the dual sensor make vs just one?

[bpzle 0]

I would not recommend buying from Amazon or just any random online store. Believe me, you're going to want knowledgable technical support with a camera like that.

[Voipmodo 0]

You want to avoid having a camera with built in IR as the light they provide really wont cut it for the scenario you are presenting. IR lights built in may be good for a really close area like a door or entry way but will provide very little help on a large area. For this you would need a dedicated IR light or Floods. In order to capture a license plate at night on a moving vehicle you really need to have a camera with an LPF (low pass Filter) which are designed to capture plates. IF you do not use lpf then the headlights or tail lights on the cars will wash out the camera from capturing info.

 

The trick in a situation like yours is to balance cost with your expectations on what you want to capture. For the price points you mentioned, it is going to be really tough to get what you probably want image and function wise.

 

As per arecont, they like alot of other models ship with just the camera and you have to purchase the lens seperate. The type of lens is a CS mount in most cases. These can run from ~$100-$250 or higher depending on the quality and range.

 

If you read any of my other posts, we are very heavy biased towards Mobotix IP cameras, they are full featured, do not require a computer for recording, and have several options to choose from. If I was building out a system for your needs I would use a Mobotix M12 with 22mm Night and 43 or 135 LPF lens (its a dual sensor camera), a Raytec IR light, 2TB NAS and a POE injector. This would be an ideal setup but would also run you close to $2800-3000 but would get the job done.

 

Screen shot of LPF on a M12, gives you plate view and wide view of area.

 

[rory 0]

Also, how much of a difference does the dual sensor make vs just one?

 

Big difference, each camera does its own job.

[JohnEF 0]

Thanks for the replies. I'm considering going above what I originally wanted to spend since this is an on going issue with serious vandalism involved. Does the M12 also use lens with a cs mount?

 

Also, where do you guys recommend buying the camera and lens from? Are there reputable online stores? Should I buy directly from the manufacturer. Or, should I look for a dealer in my area?

 

Thank you.

[thewireguys 3]

Yes the Arecont does NOT come with lenses and you will need 2 of them..... You can't go wrong with the M12 or 3135. Biggest difference between them is you can change lenses on the Arecont and Mobotix is a total solution with built-in NVR and doesn't need a housing. Both give great nigh time images for Megapixel cameras.

[Sawbones 0]

Thanks for the replies. I'm considering going above what I originally wanted to spend since this is an on going issue with serious vandalism involved. Does the M12 also use lens with a cs mount?

 

Also, where do you guys recommend buying the camera and lens from? Are there reputable online stores? Should I buy directly from the manufacturer. Or, should I look for a dealer in my area?

 

Thank you.

 

The rules here generally prohibit the site dealers from outright advertising/selling in a regular thread.

 

That said, if you want to buy from anybody here, send them a private message. I've done so multiple times, and have placed multiple orders with dealers who post here.

 

I haven't had a bad experience yet.

[Sawbones 0]

Rory's right.... there's a photocell on that board. Can't remember if the camera uses that just for the IR to kick on or also uses it to switch beween day/ night.

 

On my analog cams there's a feature in the OSD to use video level or to use the photocell. I don't think that option exists in ACTi's configuration...

 

 

There are two sets of wires that go to the IR LED assembly. One set undoubtedly goes to the photocell (and you wouldn't want to disconnect those, of course), but the other set powers those LEDs. Here's one side of that LED assembly.

 

 

 

 

And here's the side I already posted:

 

[rory 0]

Thats how they should be, but every new one ive used lately has only 1 cable to the LED ring.

Good to know their new cameras are sticking with some good old tricks

[bpzle 0]

Thats how they should be, but every new one ive used lately has only 1 cable to the LED ring.

Good to know their new cameras are sticking with some good old tricks

 

 

You using megapixel Rory?!?

[rory 0]

You using megapixel Rory?!?

 

No, couldnt sell them here, cant even sell the regular TDN cameras now as the duty has skyrocketed.

A $200 IR bullet is a $600 camera here, people want to pay $600 for the entire system!

I was talking about TDN IR Bullets in general.

[Sawbones 0]

Thats how they should be, but every new one ive used lately has only 1 cable to the LED ring.

Good to know their new cameras are sticking with some good old tricks

 

That one's a year old or so... so maybe it's the older ones that had separate wiring to that LED assembly.

[bpzle 0]

Thats how they should be, but every new one ive used lately has only 1 cable to the LED ring.

Good to know their new cameras are sticking with some good old tricks

 

That one's a year old or so... so maybe it's the older ones that had separate wiring to that LED assembly.

 

Last one I used was seperate... I remember now. That was about 6 months ago...

 

 

That ir would be no where near powerful enough for lighting up a driveway. Probably throws a 10-15 degree beam maybe 15-20' outdoors.

[Sawbones 0]

Thats how they should be, but every new one ive used lately has only 1 cable to the LED ring.

Good to know their new cameras are sticking with some good old tricks

 

That one's a year old or so... so maybe it's the older ones that had separate wiring to that LED assembly.

 

Last one I used was seperate... I remember now. That was about 6 months ago...

 

 

That ir would be no where near powerful enough for lighting up a driveway. Probably throws a 10-15 degree beam maybe 15-20' outdoors.

 

It's a little wider than that... but you've got the distance about right.

 

You just can't push enough power over PoE to generate decent wide-area IR coverage.

[JohnEF 0]

regarding the mobotix camera, is there a difference between a L135 lens and a L135 LPF lens? I'm looking on their website and I don't see any LPF lens under their lens table.

 

and i'm totally perplexed about the difference between a night and day lens. what's the difference? is it just color vs b/w? I'm looking at two of the same sec m12 cameras and the one with two night lens (one a LPF) costs like 600 dollars more!

[Voipmodo 0]

For the l135 mobotix lens and the lpf l 135 the only difference is a special filter on the lpf that blocks everything but visible light.

 

The difference in day/night is the day versions use a 3 megapixel sensor, and the night versions use a 1.3 megapixel ir sensitive sensor. The reason why the cameras with LPF are $600 more are two fold. Firstly there is a special filter that is placed on the LPF part of the camera to block visibly light which costs more, and secondly the lens on the lpf is set at the factory and is produced in far less numbers then the standard m12 so they build less of them with a dual b/w and lpf.

 

I tell my customers often that while prices may seem high on the complete solution, would they trust a $100 solution to protect tens of thousands of dollars or more of property? For the LPF, it comes down to is $600 worth being able to show a plate to the police after a theft or just an image of the car and the thief?