Stadium surveilance

[rory 0]

thewireguys wrote:

I am serious I would like to know. What if the analog system to cover that would cost 300,000 and the Avigilon system cost 200,00? would that change your mind about the insurance

 

Not if I could loose $10,000+- just from the theft or damage of one single camera, if not insured.

?

 

So you wouldn't insure the more expensive analog system?

Well I am talking about 1 single camera, where an analog camera, since thats what you want to bring up, could cost roughly $500, while the one we are talking about is $10,000. Although $500 is still alot of money its a far cry from $10,000 and in most cases the customer can afford to loose a $500 compared to the cost of insuring it. Again 1 single camera, it is much easier for the thief to steal 1 single camera than 50 of them, and ofcourse if we are talking 50 x $10,000 cameras (your number from earlier post) then that makes it even more reason to insure them. Also recall I was talking about insuring in the case of lightning also. One $500 camera gets hit no big deal, One $10,000 camera gets hit its all over. Ive come across $3000 Extreme CCTV cameras get hit by lightning and its no fun, glad it wasnt my job.

[megapixel man 0]

Rory how many analog cameras would it take to get face face recognition on every seat in an 20,000 stadium?

 

I know the question was directed at Rory, however I have done a few stadiums with the Avigilon System and done one for a 20,000 capacity, 12x 16MP cameras were used to achieve facial rec of everyone in the stands, and a bucket load cheaper and user friendly solution for them than the 500-600 standard res cameras it would take to acheive the same result. For these types of projects you can't think of the individual camera in terms of a comodity item $. the overall solution price and what it delivers is the key factor, including the life cycle cost (maintenance etc.....).

[Soundy 1]

Of course, if your insurance deductible is $1000, it doesn't make much sense to insure $500 cameras unless you reasonably expect a bunch of them to get taken... especially since your rates typically go up with any claim. But a $10,000 camera... oh yeah, it's worth it.

 

But again, in something like this, once the equipment is installed, it would typically become the responsibility of the site to insure it (or more commonly, add it to their existing insurance).

 

That's based on how things work here in Canada, anyway... other provinces, states, or countries, the rules will vary... and where your coverage stops and theirs takes over may vary depending on the insurer as well. Best to check it out with YOUR OWN broker and make sure of how far you're covered... and if a customer asks, as Rory insists they will, you'll know then what to tell them, about when they need to add things to their own coverage.

 

No, I'm not an insurance expert, nor do I play one on TV... but I'm married to a commercial property and liability underwriter

[thewireguys 3]

 

I know the question was directed at Rory, however I have done a few stadiums with the Avigilon System and done one for a 20,000 capacity, 12x 16MP cameras were used to achieve facial rec of everyone in the stands, and a bucket load cheaper and user friendly solution for them than the 500-600 standard res cameras it would take to acheive the same result. For these types of projects you can't think of the individual camera in terms of a comodity item $. the overall solution price and what it delivers is the key factor, including the life cycle cost (maintenance etc.....).

 

 

[cglaeser 0]

... I have done a few stadiums with the Avigilon System and done one for a 20,000 capacity, 12x 16MP cameras were used to achieve facial rec of everyone in the stands, ...

 

Isn't getting advice on how to do a stadium install from someone who has actually done a stadium install sort of like, um, cheating?

 

Best,

Christopher

[hardwired 0]

So, main requirement - EVERY FACE SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED!

Good document:

http://www.mrfsgroup.com/PDFs/cctv/The-Mathematics-of-Megapixel-CCTV-Technology-in-Football-Stadiums.pdf

But....

I need alternative to Avigilon cameras...

Any ideas? (please, read document at link first)

 

Came into this thread a little late, but you might want to look at SentryScope, http://www.sentryscope.com/.

 

It's a mirror swept linescan imager that gives a wide angle 21 Megapixel image, with recording done at the camera.

 

A few other cameras, with the Kodak KAI-16000 16MP imager: Jai AB-1600GE, http://www.jai.com/EN/CameraSolutions/Products/Pages/AB-1600GE.aspx (Gig-E interface), and Lumenera Lw16059 http://lumenera.com/products/industrial-cameras/lw16059.php (USB interface).... But you'd have to hunt down a recording solution.

 

Also worth looking at is Elphel, http://www3.elphel.com/, they are an open source vendor, with some really good ideas, they have also used the 16MP Kodak sensor, among other things.

[Dirk_D 0]

I would hope everyone here has the appropriate insurance on their homes and shops, too... like if someone breaks into your office and steals a pallet loaded with equipment you're shipping to site the next day? Or if your shop burns down? (This happened to a subcontractor of ours once, BTW - arsonist burned down his garage with all the equipment he had for ours AND his own jobs... he wasn't insured...)

 

since the thread has taken a turn towards insurance etc, my vehicles have a policy that's called "commercial inland marine" that covers gear (up to a set $ amount) in transit & at the customer's premesis before it's signed off.

 

As for a camera being stolen, even a $10K one at that, I would expect it would be covered under the building's general liability policy, along with fixtures etc. Lightning strike? Maybe they'd better be filtered through one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE108200-06-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B000HPV3RW?tag=gpse-20

 

It's a $200,000 insurance policy for connected equipment for only $14.99!!!

 

edit: I just googled "commercial inland marine" and some of youse might find it interesting. It seems like a good option for this industry (I sell in others as well).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_marine_insurance

[Soundy 1]

I would hope everyone here has the appropriate insurance on their homes and shops, too... like if someone breaks into your office and steals a pallet loaded with equipment you're shipping to site the next day? Or if your shop burns down? (This happened to a subcontractor of ours once, BTW - arsonist burned down his garage with all the equipment he had for ours AND his own jobs... he wasn't insured...)

 

since the thread has taken a turn towards insurance etc, my vehicles have a policy that's called "commercial inland marine" that covers gear (up to a set $ amount) in transit & at the customer's premesis before it's signed off.

 

As for a camera being stolen, even a $10K one at that, I would expect it would be covered under the building's general liability policy, along with fixtures etc. Lightning strike? Maybe they'd better be filtered through one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE108200-06-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B000HPV3RW

 

It's a $200,000 insurance policy for connected equipment for only $14.99!!!

 

edit: I just googled "commercial inland marine" and some of youse might find it interesting. It seems like a good option for this industry (I sell in others as well).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_marine_insurance

Not to question Wikipedia, but others will want to check with their broker... not all insurance providers will have the same coverage or offer it under the same name.

 

And you might EXPECT a building's coverage to include things like cameras, but you can never be sure. You wouldn't believe some of the horror stories I hear about insureds who end up not covered because they wanted to cheap out and exclude coverage for certain things - growing up, for example, our home insurance didn't include fire, because we lived in a log cabin with wood stoves for heating and cooking, and fire coverage would have cost a fortune.

 

Especially when it comes to commercial coverage, some insurers will offer "packages", but sometimes those packages exclude certain specific things... an insured may not even think to ask their broker if their security system is covered, until they find out too late that it isn't.

 

The point of all this: naturally, if your equipment is installed and signed off, it's now the customer's problem (as far as insurance goes), but in the interest of good customer service (and less headache if you have to come back to replace damaged or stolen gear), you might want to ask your customers to check on their coverage, especially if you're putting in a bunch of $10,000 cameras. A quick call to their broker should be all it takes - "Hey, I just installed $130,000 worth of surveillance system, is all this covered against theft and damage under my current policy?"

[rory 0]

I imagine the big companies have insurance but most small businesses here at least dont or the ones that do have it would have very limited insurance. As for the installation company thats rare here also, unless they spent the big bucks and got limited. Ofcourse if one is selling several $10,000 cameras a year then they could probably afford to get some good insurance, question still arises though, is there such a think as lightning insurance, acts of god, etc, for things like cameras placed outside on a pole?

 

BTW I dont know if its the same elsewhere but on cars a certain age, I think 10 years or older, down here one cant get theft insurance anymore its just third party (no idea if it covers fire anymore either), AND they wont even let you pay more for comprehensive.

[Soundy 1]

I imagine the big companies have insurance but most small businesses here at least dont or the ones that do have it would have very limited insurance.

This is what I'm saying: they may want to check with their insurer to confirm what their policy DOES and DOES NOT cover.

 

is there such a think as lightning insurance, acts of god, etc, for things like cameras placed outside on a pole?

You can insure just about anything against anything... it really becomes a question of how much it costs, which the insurer will base on what they determine to be the risk. Lightning-damage coverage would probably cost a lot more for you than it would for me, as we don't get a lot of lightning here. An insurer might also give a break if the insured can prove they've implemented suitable protection (lightning arrestors, proper grounding, lightning rods, etc.). Kinda like most auto insurers will give you a discount if you have an alarm, immobilizer, etc.

[cglaeser 0]

Lightning strike? Maybe they'd better be filtered through one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE108200-06-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B000HPV3RW?tag=gpse-20

 

It's a $200,000 insurance policy for connected equipment for only $14.99!!!

 

Keep in mind that a surge protector protects equipment from strikes coming over the grid. If lightning directly strikes the camera ... poof!!!!

 

Best,

Christopher

[Dirk_D 0]

Lightning strike? Maybe they'd better be filtered through one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE108200-06-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B000HPV3RW

 

It's a $200,000 insurance policy for connected equipment for only $14.99!!!

 

Keep in mind that a surge protector protects equipment from strikes coming over the grid. If lightning directly strikes the camera ... poof!!!!

 

Best,

Christopher

 

that was tongue in cheek. I'm not too worried about lightning strikes. I was a satellite installer (among other things) for >12 years. I saw maybe one get hit. Out of thousands. I don't think it's a threat.

 

If I owned a stadium and I lost a $10K camera: BFD - I'd just replace it. JMHO, of course

 

Maybe I'll start advertising "free lightning strike replacements on all our outdoor cameras" just to differentiate my co from everyone else.

 

Insurance, as the pros here should know, is not to be taken lightly; it should be handled by a pro, just like your taxes should be handled (or combed over) by a CPA.

 

I'm much more interested in the megapixel camera / DVR aspect of this thread. I'd love to sit in the "eagles nest" control room at one of my local stadiums & see some of these amazing cameras.

 

I wonder, do they allow for digital PTZ at any time - that'd be cool.

[cglaeser 0]

that was tongue in cheek. I'm not too worried about lightning strikes. I was a satellite installer (among other things) for >12 years. I saw maybe one get hit. Out of thousands. I don't think it's a threat.

 

If I owned a stadium and I lost a $10K camera: BFD - I'd just replace it. JMHO, of course

 

Yep, I hear ya. The only thing I would worry about is people. If camera or other equipment is mounted high enough to pull a strike, need to make sure the strike is grounded to avoid injury. But as you know, that still won't save the camera.

 

Best,

Christopher

[ak357 0]

 

I'm much more interested in the megapixel camera / DVR aspect of this thread. I'd love to sit in the "eagles nest" control room at one of my local stadiums & see some of these amazing cameras.

 

I wonder, do they allow for digital PTZ at any time - that'd be cool.

 

Never mind "mega" lets do "giga"

have a look

http://www.gigapan.org/

 

samples from 40 to 150 Gigapix !

[thewireguys 3]

 

I'm much more interested in the megapixel camera / DVR aspect of this thread. I'd love to sit in the "eagles nest" control room at one of my local stadiums & see some of these amazing cameras.

 

I wonder, do they allow for digital PTZ at any time - that'd be cool.

 

Never mind "mega" lets do "giga"

have a look

http://www.gigapan.org/

 

samples from 40 to 150 Gigapix !

 

But are they good in low light?

[ak357 0]

 

Never mind "mega" lets do "giga"

have a look

http://www.gigapan.org/

 

samples from 40 to 150 Gigapix !

 

But are they good in low light?

 

Well if customer can afford "giga"

they can afford additional light

[bpzle 0]

Insurance? I thought this was a CCTV Forum

 

So why would you want to see every seat in the house vs just at the gate?

 

So what they attended a sporting event? That only narrows down the bad deed to 20,000 people. Seeing "who done it" seems like that may be worth someting. Who threw the first punch that led to a riot? Who launched the object at the dude that got a concussion? Who left that myserious package in row B? What happened in the few critical seconds before the explosion? Knowing who was involved may lead to saving lives some place else...

 

Lots of reasons...

[rory 0]

Why arent there cameras on planes, one for every seat?

[bpzle 0]

Do something on a plane and you're going to get noticed...

[rory 0]

not really.

[megapixel man 0]

Lightning strike? Maybe they'd better be filtered through one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-BE108200-06-Protector-Telephone-Protection/dp/B000HPV3RW

 

It's a $200,000 insurance policy for connected equipment for only $14.99!!!

 

Keep in mind that a surge protector protects equipment from strikes coming over the grid. If lightning directly strikes the camera ... poof!!!!

 

Best,

Christopher

 

that was tongue in cheek. I'm not too worried about lightning strikes. I was a satellite installer (among other things) for >12 years. I saw maybe one get hit. Out of thousands. I don't think it's a threat.

 

If I owned a stadium and I lost a $10K camera: BFD - I'd just replace it. JMHO, of course

 

Maybe I'll start advertising "free lightning strike replacements on all our outdoor cameras" just to differentiate my co from everyone else.

 

Insurance, as the pros here should know, is not to be taken lightly; it should be handled by a pro, just like your taxes should be handled (or combed over) by a CPA.

 

I'm much more interested in the megapixel camera / DVR aspect of this thread. I'd love to sit in the "eagles nest" control room at one of my local stadiums & see some of these amazing cameras.

 

I wonder, do they allow for digital PTZ at any time - that'd be cool.[/quote]

 

Yes they do, you can have multiple viewing windows and tabs open from the same camera at different zoom levels showing various regions of interest at the same time on both live and recorded footage. "situational awareness and detail", you can also set these as saved views for instant retrevial, multiple system operators can do this at the same time. For applications like stadiums and large area surveillance you can use the Avigilon mapping interface to set up different regions of interest and zoom levels from the one camera as a map overlay, this allows for easy navigation of large systems and sites.

[cglaeser 0]

H.264 dome should ship this week and I just placed an order for the h.264 Box camera.

 

Did you receive the Avigilon?

 

Best,

Christopher

[thewireguys 3]

H.264 dome should ship this week and I just placed an order for the h.264 Box camera.

 

Did you receive the Avigilon?

 

Best,

Christopher

 

I will have the dome this week and the box camera first week of new year.