Neighborhood CCTV

[Birdman Adam 0]

So here's the deal...

 

Our neighborhood has had numerous problems with robberies and car break-ins in the past few years. Just a week ago some idiots stole a bunch of electronics from a nearby neighbor. I have suggested this before, but finally everyone is starting to decide that a camera at the entrance would be good to capture cars and people that go in and out, and also license plates.

 

I will most likely be chosen to set this system up, and have a budget of $1400 or less. I made sure to suggest kinda high so that I can get quality equipment! Now I already know the basics of what I will be setting up, but I also have a lot of questions - so here we go:

 

1. Cameras:

 

-I was thinking that I would go with 1-3 cameras, all on one pole. They will be facing down one/both directions of our entrance, which is a long straightaway from the main road. Now I need to capture basic car details, like model, and also get license plates, day and night.

 

-I want to go analog for this setup, because nighttime viewing will have to be reliable.

 

-Thinking I'll need a WDR camera, as they will be looking at bright headlights/taillights. I was thinking about the VCB-34VF. As you probably know it has true WDR, BLC, and the Eclipse feature, which might be nice for headlights.

 

-The VCB-34VF has a vari-focal lens from 2.8-10.5mm. I am thinking I can just zoom it in to like 8-10.5mm to get a nice tight shot going down the road. The road is about 15-20 feet wide. Will this work?

 

-Via Rory's WDR test video I am pretty sure you can only choose between WDR, BLC, and Eclipse, not do more than one at once. Is this true? If it is true, I will probably get 2-3 of the same camera and have one with Eclipse, and one with WDR, so I can capture plates more dependably.

 

-Obviously these are vandal-domes. Vandalism may happen - are replacement dome covers available? Also, should I just mount the domes vertically, or get the pendant type mount so the are horizontally mounted? Those would be easier to break...

 

2. Pole:

 

-This setup will all be pole mounted, on the side of the road. I am thinking a nice strong 4X4 of treated lumber. This will be stuck in the ground maybe 3-4 feet deep, surrounded with cement, and maybe with rebar through it to reinforce it.. Sound good?

 

-Vandalism is a possibility; how high should the cameras go? Just like 4-5 feet above ground for best license plate/car shots? Or should I go 7-8 feet so no-one can whack the domes to death?

 

3. DVR:

 

-I only have experience with PC based systems, but would like to go dedicated here for size and ease of setup.

 

-I dont need any networking capability. I only need 1-3 channels, but I'm sure 4-channel is the smallest sold. I would like easy data retrieval - Like plug in a usb-drive, choose time period and review video with monitor, copy over, and done. I need to be able to easily view on most computers, so being able to save or easily convert without quality loss to a standard like .AVI or .MPEG would be nice.

 

-I need quality video. The CNB's put out good video, and I want to record all of it - so All channels D1, at 7+ FPS. Normal car speeds will be below 35MPH, (limit is 25), but some may be 40-45.

 

-The DVR and camera power supply will be in an outdoor box, so size kinda matters. Almost 90-95 degree Fahrenheit temperatures with hot sun may happen, so a cool running unit would be nice. I can't see any type of venting happening in a weatherproof enclosure...

 

4. Enclosure:

 

-This obviously needs to be water/weatherproof. I've read about "NEMA" enclosures?

 

-Need room for:

The DVR, an 120v power outlet, and wall-wart camera power supplies will be inside, monitor, keyboard and mouse, and (smallish) UPS system

 

-It needs knockout or preferably threaded holes in bottom and sides to accept PVC conduit (power from underground).

 

-A door that swings open on the front is needed, and it obviously must be able to be locked! So any suggestions?

 

5. Lighting:

 

-There is almost no artificial lighting in this area. Do I need IR at night? How about motion-detect floods? I would rather do IR because i dont want to cause accidents with lights flashing on in people's faces while they drive!

 

6. Power:

 

-Power will be ran underground from a neighbors house via 14-2 (w/ground) direct-burial Romex, up into box via pvc conduit, and to an outdoor rated GFI outlet+box.

 

-I was thinking I would install a smallish UPS system so that power blips and small outages wont stop recording.

 

Wow... Well I think thats it! I'll probably think up more later...

 

Thanks,

 

Adam

[bpzle 0]

I'm working on multiple projects, nearly identical to your requirements. Even with installing this yourself to save some money... you're budget is way too low.

 

A heated/ cooled closure for the DVR/ power supplies alone will run you 1/3 of that budget. Don't skimp on this, DVRs can be pretty fragile...

 

You're not going to be able to use domes for everything. You'll probably need bigger lenses for the plate cameras...this means box cameras. Good quality IR corrected, day night 50mm lenses can sometimes run just as much if not more than the box camera itself... If there's lighting restrictions, you'll need lots of IR... not cheap. I wouldn't use wood posts either... Metal lasts longer and you can protect wiring inside it... Make sure it's thick enough that it won't sway in the wind and make the footage worthless. For analog cameras, 1 plate camera per lane and then an overview camera to capture make/model.

[tomcctv 190]

Hi birdman. you will find it hard to get plates with dome cameras . you need 50m lens and also your dvr needs to have good fps look for something with 12 or above fps . you might have a speed limit on your road but bad guys dont stick to it. you do need good res and good fps for licence plates.

 

 

i am a big user of CNB and the only time we dont use them is when we need good long range or for licence plates. and this is one of the best at both.

http://www.koreacctv.com/eng/product/product_view.php?ac_id=65&ai_id=588

[bpzle 0]

What are the popular rebranded makes/ model numbers of this?

[Scruit 0]

Outside of the CCTV aspects, I would add that you should probably research the DOT limit for how strong a roadside post can be. When you install a wooden post for a mailbox it needs to be 4x4 or less to reduce the risk of injuries to cars that may drive off the road.

 

Before you install a pole by the side of the road, check with your local roads department and figure out what kind of post you can install and where. I would try to stay out of the right-of-way and have someone volunteer to have the cameras installed on their property instead.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Thank you for all the information so far! Sounds like I'll be morphing my ideas a lot, which I kinda figured might have to happen.

 

So, about the post. Scruit, you were right on the money - A neighbor very near the entrance has already volunteered to have the camera setup on his property - besides the road.

 

About the pole. I simply have no idea of where to obtain a nice looking 5-6 foot tall metal post - hollow on the inside for wiring. I do like the metal idea more, will probably look better.

 

GL0550AV link: http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?seqx_prod=952

BBB-34VF link: http://cnbusa.com/en/html/product/product.php?inc=spe&seqx_prod=1141

 

About the cameras. I guess I just cant figure out in my mind why I would need such a big lens! I mean the road is about 16 feet wide, with a 50 yard straightaway at the beginning. The road doesn't have lanes, everyone just kinda drives down the center. Seems to me just maxing out the default lens to 10.5mm would be fine. If I used a 50mm lens, it would be looking at such a narrow part of the street, cars would be hit and miss. However, I'm no expert, so I want to defer to you guys. How about a BBB-34VF - the box version of the VCB-34VF, with the GL0550AV lens. That lens is from 5-50mm, a much bigger range of adjustment. Lots more playing room!

 

Since it looks like I'm now going with box camera(s), I need to think about enclosures! Obviously they need to be secure and lockable. All metal would be needed. Do I really need a heater/fan combo? Temperatures would be from 5-95 Fahrenheit. Of course partial sun hitting the enclosure would probably raise the temperature? Do you guys have a brand recommendation? All the ones I've looked at online are aluminum, and most have heaters/fans, but its unclear what size they are, how they open, can they be locked, etc. Also, are the mounts on box cameras and box camera enclosures all universal?? How does the "EVERFOCUS EVER3512"(just google it) enclosure look to you all? The "WDH-605HB"?

 

Do you guys just use nonmetallic ENT tubing like this to connect between the camera enclosure and dvr enclosure?

 

The power supply for the camera(s) will be a normal wall-wart, spliced in. I already have a nice 12VDC one. Now it looks like most heater/fan combos in enclosures use 24VAC, so maybe Ill have to buy one of those instead... I found a nice 24VAC 20VA wall-wart. That works out to about 833 milliamps. That will definitely fit a BBB-34VF. However, the illuminator may put me over the top...

 

Now for illumination... Those raymax units look good, although rather expensive. How about the "VT-IR124-24"? I can't see any type of visible light going in on the pole, could blind people at night too easily.

 

Does anyone have a recommendation for a weatherproof enclosure for the DVR and power supply?

[Scruit 0]

If the post is out of the right-of-way and there's no reasonble risk of a car hitting it then it can be as big as you want. You can get metal pipe from a welding supply house. I'd check out the cost of stainless versus regular steel so you don't have to keep painting it.

 

The higher the cameras are mounted, the more solid the pole needs to be. Something 3" pipe sunk 3' into the ground in concerete with conduit run underground and up into the pipe for the wiring.

 

Personally, if other people are relying on this too I'd be more inclined to go with a true engineered license plate camera from Extreme or similar rather than a home grown solution. My LP setup took years of tinkering to get to about a 98% capture rate - although that is a single lane where the cars are travelling at less than 10mph. And I still get curveballs every now and then (see my printed plate thread!)

 

 

Also, the lens... I'm using a 82.5mm lens to read the width of a single car at 50'. Your 50mm lens will mean you need to be pretty close. Also, bear in mind the effetc if interlacing - I got better results when the plate moves top to bottom rather than side to side. I have the camera mounted on the front of my house looking directly down the driveway where cars appraoch it directly. When I had the camera mounted to the side of the driveway I found the interlacing effect caused the plates to be too blurry. Is there a curve in the road where youcan mount the camera to the outside of the curve?

 

If you are running analog then you need one cam per lane. The cam will be aimed at the center of the lane. I get best results when the image is just a little less than the width of the car (so both headlights are partially out of shot and the LP is dead center) Even then the LP is about 100 pi

 

Example 1: Plate is ~75 pixels wide. Any less than this and the plate would not be readable.

 

Example 2: Bottom right image has the plate ~160 pixels wide.

 

 

So for a good read you need to aim for the plate to be 75 px wide at the very least. 100 is better. But the wider the plate appears, the more cameras you need to cover it. It's just a tradeoff.

 

 

If it was me, I would set up a temp camera wide enough to cover the whole lane, set up for motion detection. Watch cars entering/exiting the plate capture zone for a few days and use that to get an understaning of how wide you REALLY need to cover. You may find that 99% of the plates pass through the most central 10'

[Birdman Adam 0]

Thanks for the advice!

 

I know I am in for some tinkering, but thats OK, part of the fun! Here's a quick diagram of the area:

 

 

Now that I think about it, that REG-X technology looks good! So new idea:

 

-REG-X-816-XE for capturing license plates

This gets plates, but doesn't really provide vehicle recognition, will work day/night without other light sources

 

-VCB-34VF w/lens probably maxed out to 10.5mm for vehicle model/detail recognition

WDR will help get good vehicle details, and should work in day and some at night (REG IR will help), wont usually get plates

 

This seems like a better solution than trying to use a 'normal' camera to get plates. Plus, it simplifies the amount of things to buy, one psu, no camera enclosure, etc.

 

So on to DVR and enclosure?

 

I've been looking at this DVR:

http://www.everfocus.com/product.cfm?productid=2&tab=specs

 

It's small and cheap, but I don't need anything high-powered. Does it come with a power supply? It looks like it would be easy to retrieve information. Features and connections look good. The HD is 250GB, but I'll only be recording on 1 or 2 channels, at D1, 20-30FPS each, so it should last 2+ weeks, which is all we need.

 

The last thing I'm really at a loss for is an enclosure...

[tomcctv 190]

Hi birdman. would it not be possable to run a cable from the house to the camera. it would be far better that getting mains power out to the pole to run camera and dvr. plus it will make it better to remove footage. and i would also look at the position of the camera. i would look at it pointing down your road and not up. the reason is cars will be slowing down as they turn in or out of the road giving you a much better chance of getting a plate at a slower speed.

 

another camera i would take a look at is a pixim. http://www.icrealtime.com/solutions/cameras.asp?cameraid=EL411PIXIM#specs

[Birdman Adam 0]

Man, you guys have so many ideas better than mine!

 

It makes way more sense to run direct-burial Siamese to the house & set up the dvr in there! especially because the enclosures I was looking at were like $300+.

 

Even better:

 

I'll go with direct burial/or in conduit cat5 for signals (2 cameras) and run 16/2 for power. With good baluns, video should make it 400ft, right? And with 24VAC power, any loss should be small, especially with 16ga wire.

 

At first glance the camera you suggested looks good - I'm going to look into it!

[Scruit 0]

Thanks for the advice!

 

I know I am in for some tinkering, but thats OK, part of the fun! Here's a quick diagram of the area:

 

 

Now that I think about it, that REG-X technology looks good! So new idea:

 

-REG-X-816-XE for capturing license plates

This gets plates, but doesn't really provide vehicle recognition, will work day/night without other light sources

 

-VCB-34VF w/lens probably maxed out to 10.5mm for vehicle model/detail recognition

WDR will help get good vehicle details, and should work in day and some at night (REG IR will help), wont usually get plates

 

This seems like a better solution than trying to use a 'normal' camera to get plates. Plus, it simplifies the amount of things to buy, one psu, no camera enclosure, etc.

 

So on to DVR and enclosure?

 

I've been looking at this DVR:

http://www.everfocus.com/product.cfm?productid=2&tab=specs

 

It's small and cheap, but I don't need anything high-powered. Does it come with a power supply? It looks like it would be easy to retrieve information. Features and connections look good. The HD is 250GB, but I'll only be recording on 1 or 2 channels, at D1, 20-30FPS each, so it should last 2+ weeks, which is all we need.

 

The last thing I'm really at a loss for is an enclosure...

 

 

I feel sorry for that neighbor - any car going to his house would not be captured!

 

If you go with a professional LPR camera it will tolerate the angle better and could shoot towards the main road.

 

You don't need the full width of the 16' road because most license plates are in the center of the car - and those that are on one side tend to be on the driver's side. That saves you 2' either side.

 

My thoughts:

 

 

You can do some math based upon the average speed of cars, the amount of distance they would travel while covered by the camera and the framerate... That tells you how many frames the car will be in shot for.

 

If you can give us actual distances then we can calculate the focal length of the lens you would need.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Guest

[rory 0]

At first glance the camera you suggested looks good - I'm going to look into it!

Double Scan should be better than a Pixim.

Most WDR Pixims I used were rubbish. There's always the exception though.

[Birdman Adam 0]

CRAP! I totally put the view the wrong way!!!!

 

Yea, the way you drew was the way I was thinking of going!

 

Well, it looks like my plan is starting to come together... I'll use that REG-X-816-XE for capturing plates, one of CNB's WDRs for car detail. Does anyone have a problem with mounting a CNB dome vertically, as opposed to the usual horizontally? I don't want rain-drops to obscure view. On the other hand, I don't want idiots to be able to rip it off too easily from a pendant mount. Although the post is only going to be 4-5 feet tall, so maybe it doesn't matter...

 

Power will be ran in conduit through 16/2 wire. I'm still looking for a nice place to buy 500' spool of cat5... DVR will be housed in the basement of the neighbors house, probably near where the utility feeds in. Now no power runs are needed, just a power strip plugged into an existing outlet to power monitor, DVR, and camera PSU. Does anyone have an opinion on how good the DVR I chose is? Can DVRs be set to turn back on after power outages?

 

Digging trenches is nothing new to me, I've done it before to run power+water to my aviary! "Ditch-Witch" works good. Plugging 10' sections of PVC conduit together, cementing each connection, is going to be the worst part! And I can't forget to call out the guys to mark all underground lines like electricity, water, telephone, TV... Wouldn't be nice to cut into a 7200 volt power line!

 

The distance from the neighbors mailbox to the main road is almost 180', so distance from end of road to camera pole would be about 175'. Width of the road is almost 16'. There is no lanes, per say. The road isn't really wide enough to mark lanes, so people usually go down about the center. I really need to get (almost) the whole width of the road, because people may drive to the right, or left. So you could say width of the camera view should be 8' at the least. Car speeds are usually less than 35mph, always less than 50mph; (if you go any faster, you'd fall of the road easily).

 

That being said, the license plate camera I have chosen, (REG-X-816-XE), has a fixed 16mm lens, 1/3" sensor. Quoted plate capture distance is 15-25 feet. This makes the cameras view at 20' downwind 6'x4.5'. Actually will fit fairly well. especially because road will be viewed all the way down the line, so even if car isn't in initial 20' area, plate should be captured soon after.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Guest

[rory 0]

The reg cameras work but are VERY expensive. Might need to take out insurance on them

no seriously .. i came to a job here where 2 of them had been hit by lightning! Warranty instant void.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Yea, I was a little surprised at the price too! Looks like I am getting one of the cheaper ones even, at ~$800. They easily go to $1-3k. But those are for much harder applications.

 

The good thing about this project is that its is split up through a homeowner's association. So out of ~30 homeowners, each will pay less than $50 for the initial setup. Plus, with the way everyone is fed up with these criminals, they are happy to pay!

[tomcctv 190]

Yea, I was a little surprised at the price too! Looks like I am getting one of the cheaper ones even, at ~$800. They easily go to $1-3k. But those are for much harder applications.

 

The good thing about this project is that its is split up through a homeowner's association. So out of ~30 homeowners, each will pay less than $50 for the initial setup. Plus, with the way everyone is fed up with these criminals, they are happy to pay!

 

 

 

the REG-X-816-XE is a close range camera no good for what you need max view is only 7m. max used for carpark enty and exits. looking at your drawing you need a lot more than 7m

[Birdman Adam 0]

But the thing is cars driving by will always get into that range. I might not get a car at 50', but as it drives up the hill, I'll get it at 20'. I don't need to look at the very end of the street, as the straightaway has no houses on it between the camera location and the main road. I just need to eventually get it going up (or down) the road.

 

Also, it would be cheaper for me to buy 1000' of cat5, instead of 500' cat5 and 500' 16/2. Then I will use two pairs from one cable for video, and all pairs on the other cable for power. I calculated voltage drop at 2 amps, and it looks fine. I should be running less than 1.5 amps anyways.

 

Oh, and new diagram:

 

Edited January 2, 2011 by Guest

[rory 0]

probably wont be able to power that with cat5 even tripled up.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Really? Theoretically it will work, but I guess I'll go back to 16/2 or 18/2 and one cat5.

 

Any comments on this:

 

Well, it looks like my plan is starting to come together... I'll use that REG-X-816-XE for capturing plates, one of CNB's WDRs for car detail. Does anyone have a problem with mounting a CNB dome vertically, as opposed to the usual horizontally? I don't want rain-drops to obscure view. On the other hand, I don't want idiots to be able to rip it off too easily from a pendant mount. Although the post is only going to be 4-5 feet tall, so maybe it doesn't matter...

 

DVR will be housed in the basement of the neighbors house, probably near where the utility feeds in. Now no power runs are needed, just a power strip plugged into an existing outlet to power monitor, DVR, and camera PSU. Does anyone have an opinion on how good the DVR I chose is? Can DVRs be set to turn back on after power outages?

[rory 0]

edit. i was thinking about their REG-L. This looks like a little bullet so probably okay.

But 400' seems to be pushing it. Id run 16/2 to be certain. Might as well use siamese though?

[Birdman Adam 0]

Yep, looks like Siamese is better in the long-haul. Plus, I've figured out its cheaper to run conduit and two siamese runs instead of two runs of direct burial siamese.

 

Any opinions on the ECOR4F-250 DVR?

[rory 0]

Nah sorry I dont use neverfocus DVRs.

[Birdman Adam 0]

After reading around, "Never-Focus" doesn't look like such a good idea...

 

How about the Nuvico EVL-405N.

[Scruit 0]

The Bosch Application Guide for the REG-X camera (http://stna.resource.bosch.com/documents/REG-XClose-rang_ApplicationReference_enUS_T6006569227.pdf) says that you must maintain the following:

 

1) The angle that the camera looks down at must be less than 40deg

2) The angle that the camera loos across the road must also be less than 40deg

3) The width of the plate must be at least 18% of the width of the screen

4) If all these are true, then it should read at up to 50mph.

 

So try this: Bring up google map satellite pic of the street. Draw a line that is 35deg from the direction of travel for a car in the center of the road to the mounting post. Measure that distance. Is within the capture range of the camera?

 

 

Using a professional LPR will let you use more extreme angles and capture faster vehicles than a home-grown solution.

[Birdman Adam 0]

The heading of the road was 21 degrees. 21+35 = 56 degrees. The line is actually at 35 degrees relative to the road, but I had to use google earth's heading measurement which is relative to north.

 

 

It actually worked out pretty good! I would give/take a few feet because I'm not sure how accurate google earth's ruler is.