Hire a Pro or be a DIYer? What's right for YOU?

[Sawbones 0]

Unfortunately, in the process of referring people to alarm/CCTV companies, I also sometimes find that I'm way ahead of the guy they send out to bid the job.

 

I know exactly where you are coming from. Last week I gave two hour presentation/Q&A for the homeowners association. I prepared a two-page outline that covered a range of security topics including home security vulnerabilities and suggestions on what to do about them. And, while I probably know more about security cameras than anyone who will come to their house, I'm not an alarm/camera installer. Many of them come to me for advice on what to ask their installer, and that is certainly a big help.

 

As for my own security system, it's way too high tech for the typical installer. I know there are installers that know a great deal about alarms and cameras and all the glue that holds it together, and some are on this forum, but that is the exception rather than the rule. Plus, I do enjoy designing and building things myself.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Hell... I ended up actually doing the CCTV system for my HOA.

 

I'd done my own home... so it's not like I was taking bread off of anybody's plate... but the neighborhood was having major vandalism problems in one of their common areas. With the decline in the economy, the HOA was paying to maintain multiple empty/abandoned houses in the neighborhood, including the association taking responsibility for maintaining the exteriors and yards. They were pretty strapped for cash.

 

I stepped in and helped them out. I scrounged for used hardware from some guys I knew, and did all the labor myself. Some of it was pretty painful... took me six months to get the job done... but it's caught 3-4 groups of vandals just in the time it's been operational. I probably saved the association a couple of thousand dollars in equipment costs ALONE, to say nothing of the labor... but it's an upgrade that simply wouldn't have gotten done without that cost savings, and me stepping up to do it.

 

I indirectly saved myself some money too, since the costs of a pricey system would have come out of homeowners association dues. It also earned me major good-will points from my neighbors.

 

I don't do this for a living, and other people do. I recognize that, so I'm not trying to take food off of anybody's plate... but I had a personal and financial interest, and decided to step up and do it.

[cglaeser 0]

soldering is not rocket science, its not that people CANT do it, they dont get PAID to do it.

 

Thanks Rory, you always make me laugh.

 

Best,

Christopher

[rory 0]

soldering is not rocket science, its not that people CANT do it, they dont get PAID to do it.

 

Thanks Rory, you always make me laugh.

 

Best,

Christopher

um .. LOL

What I basically meant .. ok there is alot we can do for ourselves (and if we dont know how to do it thats what youtube is for).. that we could never do for the client .. its just not possible .. eg. I worked the whole last summer 12am to 5am almost every night on my cameras and HAD to be at night for my app .. customer could never pay for that kind of service, and there are some things I would do for my own app I would never attempt with a clients

[jimjj 0]

I offer TYPE "F"...

 

C: People who truly NEED a solution. They don't have the time/ money to play around, and recognize the value of getting professional help.

 

D: (DIYers)... They love to play with technology, don't mind making mistakes. They have the time/ funds to make mistakes

 

E: The person who calls the professional and USES that experience to "hawk" info on systems and equipment in order to purchase and install...they ALWAYS ask for technical info and/or equipment model info. I've even had current clients call and ask in this poor economy inorder to save.

 

F: The person who calls the professional and USES that experience to "hawk" info on systems and equipment in order to SET UP THEIR OWN BUSINESS...they ALWAYS ask for technical info and/or equipment model info.

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Interesting inside take on your perspective of the client...so true when you think of it.

 

Anyway here is a little bit about me and my take on the discussion:

 

In the future I will be needing a very custom (CCTV?) setup for a construction site and rural residential home. That is why I am here.

I am a type "D" and type "C". In my case, I need a solution that is beyond my DIY capabilities. I am an average IT pro (MCSA) and I have an inherant need to understand what I am buying and how it works....but I have no time to do the level of research I would like. So here is your delema as a Security Professional...

 

Scenario:

I call you and request a quote for a very complicated, elaborate and expensive setup...we meet, look over the project..I really don't know what solutions are best for me. All I know is IP cameras are good, HD is good, CCTV is what I think I need, realtime/recording is a must. This gives you an idea about me and my capabilities. (Actually describes me).

 

Of course I am not going to get one quote, I am a savvy consumer and want not only a fair price but someone I can trust to do all that I ask AND give me good cutomer service during and afterwards....Oh!...and I am going to try to get a better price than the one you quote me right?...You bet! We all do it...even you do. I know...I know...YOU ALWAYS PAY THE PRO what he asks because he is a PRO and knows what he is talking about and has years of experiance....really? really? You never try to get a better deal?...You never question whether they are over priced or giving you the best deal they can?

 

I realize as was stated "my experience is worth money....you spend lots of money on testing demo stuff"....and that, in my case is part of what I am buying (or will be buying) from you. I also realize you have to make money for every thing you do for me, and that is fair. I also realize you don't work for minimum wage and have expenses just like any other business.

 

So how do you, as a professonal, cross between good customer service and smart customer service when I, as a customer, need to compare apples to apples?...when you say...."just don't tell them how to do it or give too many details"...

 

Well...I need to know how you are going to do it (to a degree) and I need details to compare apples to apples. Remember, I am shopping around. Not necessarily for the best price and certainly not for the cheapest price. I am shopping around for CS and highly skilled and knowlegable people to do my job. Last thing I want is for some nignog to show up after I sign on the line and start on his education in my back yard.

 

You say "Most like that aren't DIYers though; they're gathering info to play the pros against each other and get bargain-basement quotes."

"I don't and won't give out that info. When I began I did it by mistake but I've learned along the way; my experience is worth money....you spend lots of money on testing demo stuff....

"Some get a quote with the intent to use that quote as a blueprint for a DIY install. That's like doing free consulting work..."

"Judging character isn't fool proof... I've wasted endless hours quoting/ designing when as soon as they get what they need, they fall off the face of the planet and leave me high and dry. It's forced me to be a little more vague in quotes... "

"There's a place for all of them... I'll always try to help if I can, but it needs to make business sense too"

 

So one solution offered is:

"Can you offer two quote levels? A simple quote with cam positions and generic specs is free, whereas a quote with specific hardware, lens settings and detail that took time to prepare would cost $100 (credited against the job if they go forward)"

 

 

Two quotes...not a bad idea to offer two quotes. If you do offer a detailed quote for $, and I were you, I would leave out some of HOW to do it and details like any settings, connections. I myself would pay for a detailed quote but many won't. Then again, if I want to do my due dilligence and get 3 or 4 quotes this could cost me more than I would like. Especially in the light of so many inexperienced installers around - like this forum has brought to my attention.

 

Another idea would be to be honest about it....even if the customer is not. Tell them you cannot give them too much info....it's a lot of work to prepare for free...then they could just get their Bro to do the job. Gage their reaction. If they don't see it your way...walk away. If you have a really good raport with a prospective customer, and they just want too much info, suggest a very detailed outline for the project (depending on size) for 3-500 bucks..time is money. I myself would pay $500 for a detailed report for this project if I felt confident enough to hire you but was still on the fence. That money would be well spent to get an exact idea of your capabilities. Talk is cheap, mistakes are not.

 

So, to sum it up, don't just automatically think the customer is TYPE E. In my case I need info (lots of it) to compare apples to apples and make sure the person I hire knows his business. I feel for ya...can you feel for me?...who can you trust?

 

This forum has proved to be invaluable to me. So much good information...many really knowlegable people.

 

If you want an honest answer (from a type "D" and type "C") to any of your questions ask away.

 

Disclaimer: I am not yet in the process of looking for quotes so please don't ask any questions about the project I will be doing. And I will definatley not be doing the job myself but I will be gathering as much info as possible in the mean time.

[pnyxxpress 0]

you forgot one more type; the person who calls the professional and USES that experience to "hawk" info on systems and equipment inorder to purchase and install. These types ALWAYS ask for technical info and/or equipment model info. I've even had current clients call and ask in this poor economy inorder to save. I don't and won't give out that info. When I began I did it by mistake but I've learned along the way; my experience is worth money.

 

I completely understand your point. I just did this recently asking a pro for advise. I would have gladly paid him for an hours worth of counciltation if he would have asked for it but instead spent an hour telling me how much bettter of a job he could do instead of me doing it myself. At the same price.

 

I'm the type of person who does it myself and will gladly hire the person that takes the time to assist the DIYer. Since he opted for giving me a sales pitch I will hire the next person on my list of contacts.

[ak357 0]

 

I completely understand your point. I just did this recently asking a pro for advise. I would have gladly paid him for an hours worth of counciltation if he would have asked for it but instead spent an hour telling me how much bettter of a job he could do instead of me doing it myself. At the same price.

 

I'm the type of person who does it myself and will gladly hire the person that takes the time to assist the DIYer. Since he opted for giving me a sales pitch I will hire the next person on my list of contacts.

 

Nothing stop YOU to stop him of his speech ?

Nothing stop YOU to offer him what in your mind

He was simply trying to advertise himself

I have seen that type of conversation hundreds if not thousands time on CCTV retail level

It's take me about 1-2 min on the phone to know whether I am talking to "smart a..s" or customer worth my time

the same apply on this forum

well I should stop can become very long coversation

[pnyxxpress 0]

You do sound like you know it all....

[ssnapier 0]

This is a fantastic discussion... " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" />

[ak357 0]

You do sound like you know it all....

 

When u spend about 10 years in CCTV retail

you quickly learn how to save time,minimise headache,filter a...s holes and so on....

[groovyman 0]

You do sound like you know it all....

 

When u spend about 10 years in CCTV retail

you quickly learn how to save time,minimise headache,filter a...s holes and so on....

Not just CCTV. This can be said for any business.

[bostonblackey 0]

I am a semi DYI but usually hire things done. I like to have knowledge of a subject bedfore I hire a professional as in my long life, too many people who have represented themselves as pro's tried to rip me off. Example, The A/C guy who said I needed a new $5,000 A/C when all it needed was a Start capacitor and when the water softener malfunctioned was told a lie that the manufacturer was out of business and parts were no longer available. I also want to have enough knowledge about what I am getting into.

 

I realize that I have a unique problem in needing to have a wireless signal that is far greater then the max range of 300 ft for reliable wireless reception and need amplified access point and range extender but am trying learn about network security vulnerabilities and open network ports that can be exploited in a private network with the addition of a security camera system. I still have question about future expansion and the pro's and con's of integrating a camera system with my home security alarm system.

 

I don't expect a pro to give away all the info obtained by years of practice and schooling, but I would imagine a real pro would be focusing on commercial applications where the real money is and messing with home systems unless there is a lack of commercial work.

[SectorSecurity 0]

I have walked away from many jobs over customers that want to argue with me over what I am telling them, and try and tell me I am wrong, I rather lose the sale then beat my head against the wall trying to make you believe I know what I am talking about.

 

If you want to be the type of customer that wants to challenge me on everything because you think you know it then by all means do it yourself.

 

I also hate the type of customer where I show up and they think free consultation means I start setting up their system and making connections for free.

 

I have lately seen so many customers that want the pro results at the DIYer price.

[ak357 0]

I have walked away from many jobs over customers that want to argue with me over what I am telling them, and try and tell me I am wrong, I rather lose the sale then beat my head against the wall trying to make you believe I know what I am talking about.

 

If you want to be the type of customer that wants to challenge me on everything because you think you know it then by all means do it yourself.

 

I also hate the type of customer where I show up and they think free consultation means I start setting up their system and making connections for free.

 

I have lately seen so many customers that want the pro results at the DIYer price.

 

But here u provide lots of free info

May I ask you Why ?

[icamera 0]

On forum you share information. no?

 

But here u provide lots of free info

May I ask you Why ?

[SB_Jim 1]

.......May I ask you Why ?

 

I'm presuming this is so because there are some kind & generous souls on this forum (that's a given) who will generously share with many of us who are very interested in installing cams & nvr's at our own homes. We're not trying to make a business of it, we ask honest questions, are willing to be corrected for our mistakes, and most of the time make an effort to thank and show honest appreciation to the "givers of knowledge and experience".

 

To me, that's what makes this forum a success. Clearly there are many talented folks who contribute here, and there are many more of us who are very appreciative of the vast amount of information that is shared - some of it a bit over our heads

[bostonblackey 0]

Already, I have consulted with a installer who suggested a system that might work for my application but my investigation revealed what he wanted to do would expose my system computers and alarm system to severe vulnerabilities. Although, the camera has NIC and MAC which could be recognized by the router, the extended wireless access points and outdoor range extenders for the wireless install would open up security to my network system.

 

I am glad I did some study, because the company I intend to hire will solve the problem by using a old computer not connected to the network and make a stand alone system that will incorporate nothing but the camera system. it will cost me more than many would want to spend to have a separate High Speed router and pay for a high speed light internet connection but being safe is more important than the money required. The 700 ft between my house router and my barn probably would not have worked in a satisfactory manner.

 

I don't try to tell a professional how to do a job but before I hire him I want him to tell me how he intends to do the job. If a Pro does not want to tell me then I want nothing to do with him.

 

I have managed through life by living by the golden rule. "he who has the gold, makes the rule"

[MR2 0]

I think part if the people having issues with "Pro's" is that a lot of the CCTV stuff is moving into the IT industry, so back when the security system had nothing to do with the business's IT system these guys were king of their castle, things have now changed to where the entire system is managed/run through the companies existing IT Infrastructure...

 

when one of the companies I do the IT for had some security consultants come in and offer advice they were offering all sort of options and obviously had not a clue how much easier the whole thing would be when they just used existing hardware and networks...

 

funniest stuff, people tell me that our gigabit links are going to be overloaded by 640x480@20fps IP camera's maybe if we bought 100 of them anyway since seeing the frightening bill that this first system came with, then seeing all the feedback from that companies manager about how the placement and quality of the camera's I ended up just digging into it and researching it all myself.