deinterlacing (yet blurred) vs. interlaced scan question

[mike_va 0]

I noticed this effect inadvertently playing with cameras (obviously as the camera is laying on it's side on the floor...). There seems to be a blur present. Do analog cameras wait 1/60s to take the next bit of the interlaced picture? I've searched around the forum and in general and have not been able to find an answer.

 

Setup was Bosch 0355 into Axis 243, 35% compression and de-interlaced.

 

2 CIF (not blurred squished picture)

2 CIF expanded not blurred (but I think I've just tossed away half the information)

4 CIF blurred leg effect

 

If this is what is going on, does someone make an analog camera that takes a progressive scan and then transmits NTSC? Or, do I need to use a progressive (e.g. IP) camera to eliminate this effect?

 

Thanks, Mike

[shropna 0]

 

If this is what is going on, does someone make an analog camera that takes a progressive scan and then transmits NTSC? Or, do I need to use a progressive (e.g. IP) camera to eliminate this effect?

 

Thanks, Mike

I know only few "analog" cameras with progressive scan and interlaced output.

As an example:

http://www.dallmeier-electronic.com/en/cctv-ip-video-surveillance/cameras/models/box-cameras.html

More easy way - IP cameras with progressive scan.

[D.V.S. 0]

Looks like it's not deinterlacing properly. Try manually deinterlacing.

 

http://www.100fps.com/

[rory 0]

I noticed this effect inadvertently playing with cameras (obviously as the camera is laying on it's side on the floor...). There seems to be a blur present. Do analog cameras wait 1/60s to take the next bit of the interlaced picture? I've searched around the forum and in general and have not been able to find an answer.

Ive never seen blur from a person walking.

Most likely either your analog camera has the shutter speed slowed down or its something to with the IP/digital capture device. Deinterlacing that image does nothing.

[D.V.S. 0]

I would assume from his post that he already deinterlaced that snapshot, so deinterlacing it again would not do anything. I did not know you can deinterlace photos, learned something new.

[rory 0]

I would assume from his post that he already deinterlaced that snapshot, so deinterlacing it again would not do anything. I did not know you can deinterlace photos, learned something new.

 

Paint Shop Pro .. Enhance Photo .. Deinterlace.

I never even knew it existed until the other day when on another thread someone posted a snapshot from an interlaced video clip - and it worked.

[mike_va 0]

I would assume from his post that he already deinterlaced that snapshot, so deinterlacing it again would not do anything.

 

Yep, deinterlacing is on. When disabled, it is jaggedy as opposed to blurred as pictured.

[mike_va 0]

Ive never seen blur from a person walking.

Most likely either your analog camera has the shutter speed slowed down or its something to with the IP/digital capture device. Deinterlacing that image does nothing.

 

That's what I was thinking, there is no way to set the min shutter on the camera. I tried turning on the hall lights to no avail. In this case I am only a few feet from the camera, so I end up moving across the field of view pretty quickly.

 

At least one field comes out not blurred, so maybe not so much a slow shutter problem?

 

I was thinking that this may be inherent to analog cameras, if the camera waits 1/60s to shoot the next field in the frame. Some things I've read seem to imply this is what happens, but I wanted to have a clear understanding. I'll try it again with some different cameras this weekend where I can set the min shutter.

[rory 0]

I was thinking that this may be inherent to analog cameras, if the camera waits 1/60s to shoot the next field in the frame. Some things I've read seem to imply this is what happens, but I wanted to have a clear understanding. I'll try it again with some different cameras this weekend where I can set the min shutter.

Ive never seen it. In fact only time ive seen blur is when I tested a camera with slow shutter last summer, and a CNB dome on a street I put in a couple months back .. only the cars though and only over 30mph or so. Ive been using analog cameras since around 2001.

[shropna 0]

Ive never seen blur from a person walking.

Most likely either your analog camera has the shutter speed slowed down or its something to with the IP/digital capture device. Deinterlacing that image does nothing.

 

That's what I was thinking, there is no way to set the min shutter on the camera. I tried turning on the hall lights to no avail. In this case I am only a few feet from the camera, so I end up moving across the field of view pretty quickly.

 

At least one field comes out not blurred, so maybe not so much a slow shutter problem?

 

I was thinking that this may be inherent to analog cameras, if the camera waits 1/60s to shoot the next field in the frame. Some things I've read seem to imply this is what happens, but I wanted to have a clear understanding. I'll try it again with some different cameras this weekend where I can set the min shutter.

This is not "long" shutter problem. Look at leg edges - no any blur. Typical "interlaced" picture. Except one thing - place camera "normal", do horizontal, not vertical motion. Then look at snapshoots

[mike_va 0]

This is not "long" shutter problem. Look at leg edges - no any blur. Typical "interlaced" picture. Except one thing - place camera "normal", do horizontal, not vertical motion. Then look at snapshoots

Tried it horizontal today out the front bay window with a different camera, same thing for a package deliveryman.

 

The other possibility is Vitamin D is doing something not right, or the Axis 243 is doing something. This effect is not present with my 1344 and Vitamin D. Hopefully this weekend will do another experiment and try to get Axis camera station running. Tried installing it on my girlfriend's old computer and it said the video card was inadequate so no dice with that.

 

On the other hand, if interlaced fields ARE taken at different points in time 1/60s apart then there is nothing I can do this slow shutter effect will always be there. That is, even if I set the min to a fast shutter they will still be taken 1/60s apart and for moving objects this is going to cause some blur.

 

I'll set it at 2CIF expanded for the time being but i don't like the idea of throwing away already limited analog camera resolution.

[rory 0]

What does it look like plugged into a service monitor?

[mike_va 0]

What does it look like plugged into a service monitor?

Hmm, good idea but I don't have one of those. I'm not sure we could see it as it happens so quickly, I notice it on playback on the computer.

 

I'll add that to the list of things to try this weekend, we could drag an old CRT TV down from upstairs and use that? If it would work better I could just hook it up to the HDTV.

[rory 0]

What does it look like plugged into a service monitor?

Hmm, good idea but I don't have one of those. I'm not sure we could see it as it happens so quickly, I notice it on playback on the computer.

 

I'll add that to the list of things to try this weekend, we could drag an old CRT TV down from upstairs and use that? If it would work better I could just hook it up to the HDTV.

 

Ive never seen it as mentioned .. even snapshot from a video, and I playback video all the time .. unless its like a car going really fast.

[mike_va 0]

I've been reading a book by Vlado Damjanovski that just came and I think I've pretty much convinced myself that the fields are taken at different points in time for interlaced.

 

Also, Sony shows progressive CCD sensors. I wonder if anyone uses these?

 

http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/pro/image_senser/progressive_scan.html

[mike_va 0]

Ive never seen blur from a person walking.

Maybe because it was so close, that would be equivalent to something further away moving faster? I was only a few feet from the camera.

 

Here is an example further out, BBM24F into 241S. Squirrel moving quickly.

[rory 0]

Ive never seen blur from a person walking.

Maybe because it was so close, that would be equivalent to something further away moving faster?

Nah Ive seen people right up against the camera before .. seen it all in the clubs and such.

[pavel1883 0]

I noticed this effect inadvertently playing with cameras (obviously as the camera is laying on it's side on the floor...). There seems to be a blur present. Do analog cameras wait 1/60s to take the next bit of the interlaced picture? I've searched around the forum and in general and have not been able to find an answer.

 

Setup was Bosch 0355 into Axis 243, 35% compression and de-interlaced.

 

2 CIF (not blurred squished picture)

2 CIF expanded not blurred (but I think I've just tossed away half the information)

4 CIF blurred leg effect

 

If this is what is going on, does someone make an analog camera that takes a progressive scan and then transmits NTSC? Or, do I need to use a progressive (e.g. IP) camera to eliminate this effect?

 

Thanks, Mike

 

 

Recently we have absolutly the same issue!!!!

 

But with Bosch ltc 0385 camera. We use them for train's car number recognition system. 1 week we straggle with camera, coder try all possible settings but blurred images in 4 CIF was unbeatable))))

 

The problem is inside Axis coder it is looks like it doesn't have deinterlasing filter inside.

 

But we had a possibility to change it on Bosch VIP X1XF and what a mirrecle )) blurred picture is gone.

[mike_va 0]

The problem is inside Axis coder it is looks like it doesn't have deinterlasing filter inside.

 

But we had a possibility to change it on Bosch VIP X1XF and what a mirrecle )) blurred picture is gone.

The page for the 243 has that option checked, it is jaggedy without it. I think I'm going to open an Axis support ticket to try to get to the bottom of this. Thanks for responding with your experience.

[shropna 0]

The problem is inside Axis coder it is looks like it doesn't have deinterlasing filter inside.

 

But we had a possibility to change it on Bosch VIP X1XF and what a mirrecle )) blurred picture is gone.

The page for the 243 has that option checked, it is jaggedy without it. I think I'm going to open an Axis support ticket to try to get to the bottom of this. Thanks for responding with your experience.

Bosch encoders doesnt have 4 cif resolution, when decoding with Bosch decoder (not hardware, but software). Actually, Bosch DECODING work only with 2 cif resolution, so, you will not have interlacing effects

De-interlacing is not "easy" work......

http://www.compression.ru/video/deinterlacing/index_en.html

[mike_va 0]

Here is directly from the axis site:

 

http://www.axis.com/products/video/video_server/about_video_servers/deinterlacing.htm

 

Also, I have a support ticket going and they are looking into it.