What to get for a better image then a DBM-24VD ?? >>

[rory 0]

I messed with the focus a little bit. it seems to be best at 15/20. it was a 10/20.

 

Attached is a shot with all the lights on in the room.

was this taken over the network? reason I ask is the size is much larger than the size the DVR records at. Also that would explain the poor quality of this image.

 

Also lets look at it closer, other than it has some artifacts and is a little blury, probably could still use a better focus - how did you focus it? The person in the left edge of the image - the light could be causing a little blur, also with wider views the edges will have a little blur at least on one side even at optimum focus (aspherical lens will get rid of this, but these domes dont have that, need a box camera in that case), if not focused 100% then will experience even more blur on both edges. Also if focused in full light, even though these are IR Corrected lenses they seem to still experience some focus shift, so I would suggest focusing it in low light (not dark). BTW wont get focus shift if using a fixed lens camera.

 

This view is not a good one to use to focus, the center should always be the sharpest, but either way this is a big wide view and objects are really too far away. Perhaps try this, take a chair, and about center of the image from top to bottom place one there, then one on the very left and one on the very right edges. Focus on the center then focus on the other 2 chairs .. make sure the center chair stays in focus. This can take a few tries. First though get that light out of the view, the one where he is sitting. I would also dim the kitchen light and just leave on one light behind the camera somewhere. These lenses should be factory backfocused so no need to worry about that.

 

Also you need something better to view it on, such as a simple 13" TV, or better yet a CCTV CRT Monitor, plug the camera direct into that - if focusing on a DVD player or any kind of LCD it just wont always be 100%, same with over the network which is even more difficult. There are even focus meters that help with this, cant say how well they work yet though, I have one on order.

[rory 0]

by the way I was meaning to do this anyway, I will email the CNB tech Im dealing with and ask the differences between the various IR domes. I want to add at least 2-4 of them to my catalog .. as with other potential users I am not 100% certain of the differences, especially between the IR Turret domes, or more importantly some of their specs say 6mm while others say 3.8mm ... im thinking the old non Monalisa ones were 6mm .. and its just a typo in their spec sheet for the monalisas. Also though of no use in your case, I need to know their IP rating or at least if they are outdoor rated - most of their cert sheets are missing from their website. Now that ive seen the price of their PTZs I feel obliged to add a couple of those also - my catalog is mostly just using their cheapest cameras, as its still a step up from the other couple budget lower resolution cameras I sell as a kit to clients. BTW I would be quoting the 12VDC IR Turret domes as they are well easier to install, can adjust once mounted without removing any cover, plus these lower end jobs are all 12VDC. Cant sell everything they have, least not down here! Also I test every camera I sell or install .. so cant sell too many for that reason also. Their dual voltage IR domes, well I guess will keep those on the back burner for the higher end clients, or longer distances.

[platinum 0]

Hi platinum. I would assume that a CNB dvr would record better videos than the snapshot shown by you, especially at max settings. Are you using quality rg59 cables and connectors? That may affect your picture quality. I custom made all my cables and the resulting videos improved drastically compared to my original store bought cables.

Yes this is through CMS software for the CNB not the recorded image itself. My HDD is not coming until later this week. I will post up better those recorded snapshots when it gets here.

 

Cables are 20awg and I used compression CP connectors. Dont know if this is the "good stuff" but it surely wasnt the cheapest.

 

Also lets look at it closer, other than it has some artifacts and is a little blury, probably could still use a better focus - how did you focus it? The person in the left edge of the image - the light could be causing a little blur, also with wider views the edges will have a little blur at least on one side even at optimum focus (aspherical lens will get rid of this, but these domes dont have that, need a box camera in that case), if not focused 100% then will experience even more blur on both edges. Also if focused in full light, even though these are IR Corrected lenses they seem to still experience some focus shift, so I would suggest focusing it in low light (not dark). BTW wont get focus shift if using a fixed lens camera.

 

This view is not a good one to use to focus, the center should always be the sharpest, but either way this is a big wide view and objects are really too far away. Perhaps try this, take a chair, and about center of the image from top to bottom place one there, then one on the very left and one on the very right edges. Focus on the center then focus on the other 2 chairs .. make sure the center chair stays in focus. This can take a few tries. First though get that light out of the view, the one where he is sitting. I would also dim the kitchen light and just leave on one light behind the camera somewhere. These lenses should be factory backfocused so no need to worry about that.

 

Also you need something better to view it on, such as a simple 13" TV, or better yet a CCTV CRT Monitor, plug the camera direct into that - if focusing on a DVD player or any kind of LCD it just wont always be 100%, same with over the network which is even more difficult. There are even focus meters that help with this, cant say how well they work yet though, I have one on order.

Good tips for focusing. When I get the replacement cameras, I will surely do it this way. Now if I can just find and old TV or Monitor for this

 

That said you could still use the LBM-20S and just use a 12vdc plug in adapter. It is max 360ma current so 4 of them would need at least a 1.5ma or better yet a 2amp. That camera is almost half the cost of the LMB-24VF- though has a wide angle lens so cant manually zoom it in during the install. The nice thing about them though, if they are similar to the non IR monalisa DFL-20s, is that they come with a focused fixed lens - Ive used alot of the DFL-20s and never had to focus them yet.

Instead of pluging them in, do they make a transformer to take it from 24v to 12v so I can still use my power supply? I like the DFL-20. It seems to be a good choice for what I am doing and not the cons of a IR dome.

 

If I went with the fixed lens, what lens would I be looking at for the area I am trying to cover.

[Birdman Adam 0]

I'm positive your picture will improve when you look at an actual recorded image.

 

And yes, they made converters to take 24VAC to 12VDC. The Altronix VR1 is rated for 1A. Plenty for a couple non-IR cameras.

[rory 0]

Instead of pluging them in, do they make a transformer to take it from 24v to 12v so I can still use my power supply? I like the DFL-20. It seems to be a good choice for what I am doing and not the cons of a IR dome.

 

If I went with the fixed lens, what lens would I be looking at for the area I am trying to cover.

 

The DFL-20s wont see anything in the dark! The DBM-24VD sees as much as the DFL-20S will.

 

Still sounds like you need Infrared if as you said there is no light ... which would be the LBM-20S or LMB-24VF ... or even one of the VB monalisa IR domes. Oh the names CNB give these cameras ... LOL ..

[platinum 0]

I'm positive your picture will improve when you look at an actual recorded image.

 

And yes, they made converters to take 24VAC to 12VDC. The Altronix VR1 is rated for 1A. Plenty for a couple non-IR cameras.

 

Perfect.. the LFM-20VF is 360ma so one of the VR1's should do the trick for 2 of those.

 

I will let you guys know what I decide.

[platinum 0]

Ok... here is the deal. My supplier has not tried the new domes with the IR either. So he is going to let me barrow the LBM-24VF to see if I have the glare issue. If I do he will swap them out for the LFM-20VF

 

Everything should be here thursday. I will keep you guys posted and throw up some pics.

[bpzle 0]

It has been my experience that IR domes can easily lead to a crappy picture at night... 50% nature of the beast, 50% quality of the camera. Most "budget" IR domes I've used, the dome acts like a bowl that reflects all that light back into the lens, creating a wash/ haze effect at night...

 

All the CNBs I tested with IR were junk... Let us know how this one works out for you! I would be curious to see if they have gotten any better.

 

Unless the customer demands domes with integrated IR, I try to talk them into one of my favorite bullet cams...

[rory 0]

It has been my experience that IR domes can easily lead to a crappy picture at night... 50% nature of the beast, 50% quality of the camera. Most "budget" IR domes I've used, the dome acts like a bowl that reflects all that light back into the lens, creating a wash/ haze effect at night...

Thats the only reason I like the Turret domes.. has the split window like the bullets. Most are just 12VDC though, difficult to turn all the way to the right or left, or hard to adjust the lens if needed.

[bricor 0]

I used the CNB LDM-20S for a job and the IR/night time image is pretty bad. I should have just stuck to the VBM-24's.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Have you used a VBM-24VF to compare to? Did you fiddle with all the settings to find the best compromise?

 

For LDM-20S: 0.01 Lux B/W (no IR)

For VBM-24VF: 0.005 Lux B/W

 

Those may be fudged some, but they still show that they probably used a crappier sensor and processor. Another thing to remember is that the VBM-24VF is a TDN camera (ICR), and also has DNR (noise reduction). The LDM-20S has neither.

 

Pretty much a run-of-the-mill camera to me. Results would most likely be extremely better if a VBM-24VF was paired with a separate wide-angle IR illuminator.

[rory 0]

Have you used a VBM-24VF to compare to? Did you fiddle with all the settings to find the best compromise?

 

For LDM-20S: 0.01 Lux B/W (no IR)

For VBM-24VF: 0.005 Lux B/W

 

Those may be fudged some, but they still show that they probably used a crappier sensor and processor. Another thing to remember is that the VBM-24VF is a TDN camera (ICR), and also has DNR (noise reduction). The LDM-20S has neither.

 

Pretty much a run-of-the-mill camera to me. Results would most likely be extremely better if a VBM-24VF was paired with a separate wide-angle IR illuminator.

 

The LDM-20s is basically the DFL-20s with IR and no IR Cut filter so its a color IR. no OSD, no settings. Different chipset from the VBM-24VF.

The VBM-24VF work great with external IR by the way

But for indoors I think that would be overkill.

[platinum 0]

Ok.. cameras in and comparison done. The difference is absolutely what I was looking for. I have not focused either camera yet but you can see the difference with the IR. The image is actually usable.

 

Im going to focus these with a standard res TV and will post up some better shots

[platinum 0]

So after putting the dome on, things got a little crazy. Here are two images that show what the IR and Dome does. The first one is the glare off the dome which is hard to capture but it diffenitly noticeable. The second one is just odd. It only does this with the dome on but I have no idea why.

[platinum 0]

So is the LFM-20VF what I should be looking at next or is there another brand that might provide better results?

[rory 0]

Havent used that camera, but if it has it, make sure the rubber ring around the lens is right up against the cover when you put the cover on, so the IR doesnt reflect back onto the lens.

[platinum 0]

Im pretty sure it was. I will take another look today. Any idea the second pic. That doesnt look like glare but something else going on.

[rory 0]

Yeah dont put your hand right in front of the camera, its going to try to adjust for the change in lighting, IR will kick in then be reflecting back from your hand

 

Did you check the camera direct on a monitor? Using the DVR is okay but not good for troubleshooting.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Quality is lookin' good! " title="Applause" />

I think this camera will be a big improvement.

 

In the second pic, I think that's the 'intelligent-ir' trying to reduce the bright white light from your hand.

 

Maybe it just switched from B/W and hadn't turned that off yet...?

 

The first picture's glare is definitely not how its supposed to be. That ring that prevents IR from reflecting into lens is probably at fault. Or maybe your hand was reflecting it all back in?

[platinum 0]

Most of the reflection went away once I got them mounted in there locations. What do you guys think about the focus on these now? Does it look good or should I keep tinkering.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Are you recording in CIF? 320x240? Its best to judge images in highest quality, (D1).

 

I say the Living Room is good - others may say to tinker a bit.

 

The second image seems out of focus on the left side. The right side looks good. Maybe you could compromise between the two?

[SEANHAWG 1]

I agree, top image looks focused good. But the second image's left side is out of focus.

[rory 0]

Make sure there isnt something right near the 2nd image that could be causing the blur on that edge

[bpzle 0]

So after putting the dome on, things got a little crazy. Here are two images that show what the IR and Dome does. The first one is the glare off the dome which is hard to capture but it diffenitly noticeable. The second one is just odd. It only does this with the dome on but I have no idea why.

 

The best experience is your own.

[bpzle 0]

Most of the reflection went away once I got them mounted in there locations. What do you guys think about the focus on these now? Does it look good or should I keep tinkering.

 

What happens when you open your blinds? Do you ever do this? Or do you always keep them closed? Notice how washed out the sliding glass doors are...

 

The hardest thing for a camera is seeing dark/ light in the same scene or vice versa... This can tell you wonders about the quality/ purpose of the camera.