Learn about NVRs, PoE, etc.

[harminator 0]

Can you guys recommend good places to learn about network CCTV systems, megapixel cameras, PoE. I've been reading the forum for awhile & have got some good info here so far.

 

I'm familiar with analog camera systems, DVRs, power supplies, etc. Work for a small company & have done some basic installs. We don't have any reps come to our area & no chance for training classes near by.

 

Looking to learn more about PoE cameras, what all is involved with creating a camera network?

Can you use IP megapixel cameras on an existing network infrastructure? Won't that significantly slow down & possibly crash the network?

 

Trying to look at megapixel options for people instead of multiple analog cameras. Sometimes I feel like my head is spinning.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Soundy 1]

Can you guys recommend good places to learn about network CCTV systems, megapixel cameras, PoE.

You mean besides here?

 

Most manufacturers have their own training available, although that often means travelling to wherever the courses are being held.

 

Looking to learn more about PoE cameras, what all is involved with creating a camera network?

I'd recommend starting with just basic TCP/IP networking. You already know a fair bit about cameras; the basics of light, imaging, views, lenses, and so on don't change - the main difference becomes the transport mechanism. The network is just carrying data; that it's video isn't particularly relevant.

 

Can you use IP megapixel cameras on an existing network infrastructure? Won't that significantly slow down & possibly crash the network?

Yes, and not necessarily. Depending on resolution, framerate, compression level, and codec used, traffic may not be that substantial. I have five 1.3MP IP cameras in a busy restaurant, recording at 5fps using MJPEG, that average 12-15Mbps total between them.

 

It's still a good idea to segregate them to their own network when possible, especially as you get more cameras requiring more bandwidth, but certainly not 100% necessary for smaller jobs.

[danger_e 0]

I agree with Soundy.

 

Learning basic TCP/IP will provide a very strong foundation, especially if you already know about analog transmission systems.

 

I always recommend that when setting up network cameras, that installers use a separate network backbone from existing network infrastructure. This way, if they decide to scale up (more cameras, higher resolution, etc.) then they are ready. But this is not necessary for small installations.

 

I would recommend learning about IP addressing, network transmission methods, PoE, and network traffic. As always, Wikipedia is a decent resource if you know what you are looking for.

 

And if you run into any road blocks, the forum is always very helpful.

[harminator 0]

Yes I have learned quite a bit from reading this forum & a couple others.

 

Can you recommend some good manufacturer sites that have online training?

[Soundy 1]

I would recommend learning about IP addressing, network transmission methods, PoE, and network traffic.

Agreed, this is the best place to start, especially IP addressing. If you understand how addressing and routing working (address/netmask/gateway being the three main components), you're 80% of the way there. From there, the basics of DHCP will help a lot. Things like PoE are handy, but not really necessary, as from your perspective, they're generally just plug-and-go.

[harminator 0]

Yes, and not necessarily. Depending on resolution, framerate, compression level, and codec used, traffic may not be that substantial. I have five 1.3MP IP cameras in a busy restaurant, recording at 5fps using MJPEG, that average 12-15Mbps total between them.

 

It's still a good idea to segregate them to their own network when possible, especially as you get more cameras requiring more bandwidth, but certainly not 100% necessary for smaller jobs.

 

So for small jobs; couple cameras, lower fps, lower resolution, you could tap into an existing network - route the camera IP's to the recording device & probably be ok?

 

Middle to large jobs, you'd want to build a separate network. Route your own cables, have your own PoE switch & hook into your recording device - be it NVR or a computer with video capture. Then use their network to also tie into the recording device to view footage. So the recording device would have to have 2 network cards? 1 for all the incoming cameras & 1 for outgoing viewing?

[harminator 0]

I would recommend learning about IP addressing, network transmission methods, PoE, and network traffic.

Agreed, this is the best place to start, especially IP addressing. If you understand how addressing and routing working (address/netmask/gateway being the three main components), you're 80% of the way there. From there, the basics of DHCP will help a lot. Things like PoE are handy, but not really necessary, as from your perspective, they're generally just plug-and-go.

 

I'm a little familiar with IP addressing. I've done some work with various routers, port forwarding & static IP addressing when we set up DVRs to view off-site. Don't know much about DHCP, so I will definitely look into that.

 

I like the idea of PoE, your transmission & power are one cable (I guess technically Siamese is one cable also.), your power source & routing are one device.

[Soundy 1]

So for small jobs; couple cameras, lower fps, lower resolution, you could tap into an existing network - route the camera IP's to the recording device & probably be ok?

It really depends on the "robustness" of the network, how much traffic it already carries, and how much it can handle (not all routers/switches are created equal). But in general, yes.

 

Middle to large jobs, you'd want to build a separate network. Route your own cables, have your own PoE switch & hook into your recording device - be it NVR or a computer with video capture. Then use their network to also tie into the recording device to view footage. So the recording device would have to have 2 network cards? 1 for all the incoming cameras & 1 for outgoing viewing?

Not necessarily. My most common setup uses a Cisco switch with eight 10/100 PoE ports (average 4-5 IP cameras), and two gigabit ports; the cameras connect to the PoE ports, the NVR and NAS into the GbE ports. Tie-in to the office network is then just a "jumper" cable from one of the unused 10/100 ports to the office switch. The NVR, cameras and NAS all live on a 192.168.2.* network, while the office LANs all use the customer's own 10.0.* network. The NVR itself is dual-homed, meaning the adapter has addresses on both networks, with the gateway set to the company network.

 

I posted a diagram of this layout on another thread some time ago, I can't find the picture at the moment... maybe someone else has a link to it.

 

Edit: ahh, here it is:

[harminator 0]

The diagram helps me wrap my head around it more, thanks.

 

So it looks like having a good switch is a key feature.

 

You still need to run your own cable for the cameras right?

 

So in this layout, the NVR handles the user interface, the GUI, while the NAS handles all the storage?

[Soundy 1]

So it looks like having a good switch is a key feature.

Exactly. It's not just the traffic that each port must handle... the "backplane" of the switch (the stuff that actually handles the traffic BETWEEN the ports) must be able to handle, not just the traffic of one port, but the combined traffic of ALL the ports.

 

For example, I had one site with five 3MP cameras feeding into one gigabit switch, then uplinked into another (customer-provided) cheap five-port gigabit switch, along with two other 3MP cameras... and they regularly had random cameras drop out, especially with greater activity on them. I replaced the cheap switch with a higher-quality five-port gigabit switch, and the dropouts stopped. Despite the ports on the cheap switch all being gigabit speeds, the backplane couldn't handle the total amount of traffic.

 

You still need to run your own cable for the cameras right?

Yes, unless you have existing network drops nearby.

 

So in this layout, the NVR handles the user interface, the GUI, while the NAS handles all the storage?

Correct. The NVR (well actually, a PC-based Vigil hybrid DVR in this case, with a number of analog cameras in addition to the IP cameras) handles all the recording, playback, remote access, etc.; the NAS is a RAID5 array connected via iSCSI as "external" storage device.

[thewireguys 3]

Soundy

[danger_e 0]

HA!

 

Yeah, Soundy, that was a little intense. ALTHOUGH, I'm a big fan of the sink or swim method of teaching. Every time I train someone, I give them the information they need, show them what to do, and then make them do it. Then take questions when they get stuck.

 

I also agree with everything Soundy just said. Having a good switch makes all the difference. I just had a customer that was using the PoE switch I sold him to power his cameras, but the cameras kept dropping out on the NVR. It turns out that he connected the switch to the network, and there was a cheap 8 port 10/100 switch between my switch and the NVR.

[harminator 0]

Thanks Soundy for all the info.

I'm sure I'll be around with other questions once I do some more reading.