jeromephone 6 Posted February 24, 2011 I am going to be installing a system with several IP cameras on it and am looking into storage options. I found a case that will let me install 8 drives but I am concerened with cooling etc. I have looked at several Direct attached storage units. I have not had good luck with usb attached units but have used a couple with esata connections. I would like to be in the 6 terabite range. Does anyone have any reccommendations or any units to stay away from? I have looked at drobo and d-link. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SDM Group 0 Posted February 24, 2011 Try www.broadberry.com, talk to Mark. Has put together many storage solutions at a very reasonable price, also knows what is needed for the CCTV industry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted February 24, 2011 I am going to be installing a system with several IP cameras on it and am looking into storage options. I found a case that will let me install 8 drives but I am concerened with cooling etc. I have looked at several Direct attached storage units. I have not had good luck with usb attached units but have used a couple with esata connections. I would like to be in the 6 terabite range. What is the total bandwidth coming to comp from all cameras that is key questions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 24, 2011 I am going to be installing a system with several IP cameras on it and am looking into storage options. I found a case that will let me install 8 drives but I am concerened with cooling etc. I have looked at several Direct attached storage units. I have not had good luck with usb attached units but have used a couple with esata connections. I would like to be in the 6 terabite range. Does anyone have any reccommendations or any units to stay away from? I have looked at drobo and d-link. Look at options from the likes of QNAP, Synology, or Enhance Tech (among others; those are just the brands I've used). Most of these support multiple RAID levels, including RAID5 and RAID6, with or without hot spares. An 8-bay unit with 2TB drives would allow you to configure RAID6+spare would still give you 10TB available with lots of redundancy. Even with 1TB drives, you could use RAID6 or RAID5+spare and still come out to a hair under 6TB. If you're using PC-based DVRs (Windows or *nix), for connection, look into iSCSI (all the above manufacturers have units that support it) - it operates over the network, and targets created on the array appear to the system as local drives, rather than network drives. We've been using this on several sites now for a few years and found it very reliable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 24, 2011 If you're using PC-based DVRs (Windows or *nix), for connection, look into iSCSI (all the above manufacturers have units that support it) - it operates over the network, and targets created on the array appear to the system as local drives, rather than network drives. We've been using this on several sites now for a few years and found it very reliable. Soundy how many cameras are used with your iSCSI setups? What is the total bandwidth going to it? I have used Qnap and iSCSI and I will not use it again. When it works it works great but when you lose connection and you have no recorded video the customer is not happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 Depending on the specific site, anywhere from three to six cameras... most of them IQ or Arecont; some are moving to 3xLogic (HIKvision) now. Just did some bandwidth metering on one of the sites recently, using five IQ511s... traffic into the DVR at this moment (cameras and NAS traffic combined) is running about 12Mbps average; traffic from the DVR TO the NAS is averaging around 8Mbps - that includes the IP cameras, plus the 24 other analog cameras recording at D1. All sites are running Vigil DVRs, so the MJPEG streams are being recompressed with their AZTECH codec. This particular unit is an Enhance Tech NAS, but we've also got QNAPs on several sites, and the iSCSI works flawlessly with all of them. All the DVRs have an internal drive set as a "backup" destination, so if the NAS does go offline for any reason, recording goes to the internal drive instead until the NAS can be restored. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted February 25, 2011 Just did some bandwidth metering on one of the sites recently, using five IQ511s... traffic into the DVR at this moment (cameras and NAS traffic combined) is running about 12Mbps average; traffic from the DVR TO the NAS is averaging around 8Mbps - that includes the IP cameras, plus the 24 other analog cameras recording at D1. All sites are running Vigil DVRs, so the MJPEG streams are being recompressed with their AZTECH codec. What frame rate and resolution ? (would assume full 1.3 right ? ) Thx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2011 Depending on the specific site, anywhere from three to six cameras... most of them IQ or Arecont; some are moving to 3xLogic (HIKvision) now. Just did some bandwidth metering on one of the sites recently, using five IQ511s... traffic into the DVR at this moment (cameras and NAS traffic combined) is running about 12Mbps average; traffic from the DVR TO the NAS is averaging around 8Mbps - that includes the IP cameras, plus the 24 other analog cameras recording at D1. All sites are running Vigil DVRs, so the MJPEG streams are being recompressed with their AZTECH codec. This particular unit is an Enhance Tech NAS, but we've also got QNAPs on several sites, and the iSCSI works flawlessly with all of them. All the DVRs have an internal drive set as a "backup" destination, so if the NAS does go offline for any reason, recording goes to the internal drive instead until the NAS can be restored. 12Mbps for 16 analog cameras plus five 5MP you must not have high FPS. The issue that I have is when power goes out the computer does not reconnect all the time and yes we have a UPS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted February 25, 2011 12Mbps for 16 analog cameras plus five 5MP you must not have high FPS. or He is talking about "bytes" not bits very hard to believe such low number as 12 Mbps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 That's bits, not bytes - the bandwidth monitor has options for both, I checked. The cameras are set to stream at 15fps; the DVR is sampling at 10fps (for live display and motion detection) and recording at 2fps. All are running at full 1.3MP (1280x1024). It's been running for better than a week, so those numbers are the average over that time; there are spikes to around 35Mbps. Using this utility: http://www.bwmonitor.com/ Just jacked all the cameras to 5fps recording... average for the past few minutes (middle of the dinner hour, so it's busy in the site) is running about 67.5Mbps down (from cameras and NAS), 57Mbps up (writing to NAS). Since it's a GbE connection between DVR and NAS, the network shouldn't even be breaking a sweat. And yes, the iSCSI reconnects without fail, whether I power-cycle the DVR, the NAS, or both. SMB shares don't always, which is why Vigil doesn't support mapped network drives (they said they tried it at first and had too many problems), but iSCSI is designed for better fault tolerance. I might suggest that if you had trouble with it, you were working with a poor implementation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2011 And yes, the iSCSI reconnects without fail, whether I power-cycle the DVR, the NAS, or both. SMB shares don't always, which is why Vigil doesn't support mapped network drives (they said they tried it at first and had too many problems), but iSCSI is designed for better fault tolerance. I might suggest that if you had trouble with it, you were working with a poor implementation. I didn't set it up the customers IT department did with the help of QNAP. It works most of the time but not all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 So, replace "you" with "they" Do you know if they were using it with Windows or Linux? Maybe they were using an earlier QNAP firmware or earlier iSCSI initiator on the PC? I dunno, I just know it's worked great for me (touch wood). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2011 Well I just sold them a new server so I haven't heard anything since. Old server was 7Pro new server is Server 2003 and the Qnap is the TS-809Pro. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 That's a nice unit... I've installed one or two of those... three or four more of the TS-809U-RP (the rackmount, dual-redundant-PSU version of it). The QNAPs have been really solid units for me, and their tech support has been pretty responsive. Only thing they still can't do is allow me to map iSCSI targets over 2TB - XP's disk manager won't see them. They keep telling me it's a limitation of XP's MBR system and that it's just not possible, but the Enhance Tech arrays have no problem with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2011 Yea it is but I wouldn't use it again. I would go direct attached storage so we have no reconnection issues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 I've had more problems with USB-attached externals dropping off... generally "fixed" by simply un-plugging and re-plugging the USB cable, but something that requires physical intervention is not really a solution. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2011 I would never use USB type device. Just not enough bandwidth available and way to easy to unplug. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 So what other methods are there for attaching multi-disk arrays, other than by network? I haven't seen one that has an eSATA port. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2011 There are a lot of options. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 Such aaaassssss.........?? USB - unreliable physical connection Firewire - harder to find and generally more expensive; also unreliable physical connection eSATA - do any arrays consolidate to a single eSATA port? Network - lots of protocol options, but some are unreliable (SMB), others can be complex to use (NFS)... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted February 25, 2011 Such aaaassssss.........?? USB - unreliable physical connection Firewire - harder to find and generally more expensive; also unreliable physical connection eSATA - do any arrays consolidate to a single eSATA port? Network - lots of protocol options, but some are unreliable (SMB), others can be complex to use (NFS)... Sorry I am not posting this on the open forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 25, 2011 Such aaaassssss.........?? USB - unreliable physical connection Firewire - harder to find and generally more expensive; also unreliable physical connection eSATA - do any arrays consolidate to a single eSATA port? Network - lots of protocol options, but some are unreliable (SMB), others can be complex to use (NFS)... Sorry I am not posting this on the open forum. PM then? Dealer forum? Is this something proprietary? If it's something I can just google, I don't see the point in being so secretive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
