3 BIG buildings, need a lil help here

[marvelusmarvcus 0]

i need the pros to help me out here. i am currently quoting my largest cctv job. this job will entail 3 large warehouse type of buildings. the cameras will be analog.

 

DISTANCE:

most of the camera runs will be long, some as long as 500-1000' or even longer. should i use cat5 and individual active baluns for the long runs?

 

and rg59 for any of the closer cameras?

 

or is there a good way without extra added expense to use cat5 for all of the cameras?

 

i would really like to use cat5 for everything, but i do not have experience with using cat5 for cctv. would i have to get a balun for every camera? this could end up being over 60 cameras.

 

thanks for all the help

[Soundy 1]

Baluns at every camera isn't really an issue - some cameras even have built in, or can be ordered with the option.

 

These days, the cost of Cat5e+baluns is about the same as, or even cheaper than coax+power - at our wholesaler, a 1000' box of Cat5e is actually cheaper than a 1000' box of RG-59; at a local retailer, the two are the same price.

 

Now when you're talking about 500'-1000' runs, is that just within one of the buildings, or are you calculating the full length of a home-run cable pull? If the latter, consider devices like this to transmit between buildings:

http://www.nvt.com/content.php?type=product&key=3272&cid=root

http://www.nvt.com/content.php?type=product&key=3262&cid=root

http://www.nvt.com/content.php?type=product&key=1613s&cid=root

(There are 8- and 16-channel versions as well... NVT isn't the only maker of these things, just the first one I came up with).

 

Put one in each "remote" building, with a power supply beside it, and run your cameras back to that (whether coax or Cat5e)... then you can use a minimal number of Cat5e runs back to your DVR location. 16 cameras require only four UTP runs, vs. 16 coax runs - a substantial cost savings.

 

Another option, if you already have network between the buildings, is to feed the cameras in each building into video encoders, transmit everything via network, then record them all to an NVR... although in pricing that option recently, I found it would be cheaper and less complex to just use VGA or lower-end megapixel IP cameras. So that's an option too

 

Plenty of possibilities... lots will depend on your site specifics, actual size/distance/layout of the buildings, desired layout of the system, actual number of cameras, and of course, budget.

[marvelusmarvcus 0]

very helpful, thank you.

 

i am used to pulling all of the camera wiring (rg6 and 18/2) with homeruns back to the dvr and power supply.

 

i understand that with cat5 i can run 4 cameras off one feed from the dvr location.

how would i go about this?

a cat5 pull to a switch near the cameras, and then connection to the 4 cams?

am i also doing power over the cat5?

 

is it better to just homerun all of the cat5?

 

i am very noobish with cctv over cat5 stuff.

 

thanks for the help.

[rory 0]

You can use UTP cable also, so for example an 8 pair would handle 8 cameras, save running individual cat5 cables.

[ptzguy 0]

hi marvelusmarvcus,

 

I've done plenty of warehouses and installs similar to what you're describing so i hope i can be of assistance here.

we could do with finding out more specifics like where the actual cameras and dvr are going, is there a network between the 3 buildings? is there any ducting between buildings??

 

if all the cams are going on or near to the exterior 'shell' of the building i'd run a 25pair utp around the building(depending on the amount of cams needed) and tail-off to each cam from that allowing 25cams to be installed with just 1 major cable pull. most of the modern warehouses have purlins(secondary steels) that run right around the perimeter of the building allowing you to hide all your cables.

doing cabling this way will allow you to install a psu 'past' cams that have been tailed-off because the pair have been used to take video back to the dvr...

i.e. PSU w/grn --> CAMERA w/grn --> DVR w/grn

 

alternatively, and i've seen it done before, run a poop loada rg59's and install inline amps half way for the long runs(you will definately need 1 for anything over say 400m). colour loss will occur when you exceed ~400m

 

try to get power at camera source, it'll save any headache regarding possible voltage drop.

you will need 2 baluns per cam, or if you wanted to do a real neat job at the head-end you can buy a balun rack(can be pricey though), it will keep the rear of the dvr nice and neat, tidier still if theres a rack/cabinet

 

word of warning - watch out for heavy power cables, groundloop isolators can be helpful but not 100% effective if your cables run near 3phase etc. you may have to buy shielded cat5.

 

do a thorough site survey and the job should go well, be interesting, 'pay-off' and be rewarding once it's complete!

 

where in the world are you anyway marvelusmarvcus?!

 

g'luck.

[marvelusmarvcus 0]

thank you for the detailed responses.

 

i did not understand all of the lingo like "tailed off", but still very helpful.

 

i might try to get power near the cameras, but then i run into the issue of having to place the cameras in those exact spots, and not relocating them later if need be.

 

i am still thinking i would pull a cat5 to every camera. if i pulled 1 cat5 for 4 cameras, where would i make that split? these are high ceilings, i dont want to have cat5 switches inside enclosures up high or down low.

 

cat5 and utp are same thing correct?

 

and i am in williamsburg, virginia, usa

[tomcctv 190]

thank you for the detailed responses.

 

i did not understand all of the lingo like "tailed off", but still very helpful.

 

i might try to get power near the cameras, but then i run into the issue of having to place the cameras in those exact spots, and not relocating them later if need be.

 

i am still thinking i would pull a cat5 to every camera. if i pulled 1 cat5 for 4 cameras, where would i make that split? these are high ceilings, i dont want to have cat5 switches inside enclosures up high or down low.

 

cat5 and utp are same thing correct?

 

and i am in williamsburg, virginia, usa

 

 

 

nice place williamsburg. i lived in martinsburg for a while.

 

if you dont want to use splitters then yes i would go to each camera with cat5 (also makes easy fault finding.

with the likes of CNB you can order there range and just and utp at the end of there part number )

 

or you could us utp 4 way box and from there coax to your cameras.

 

[Soundy 1]

What you would do, is run a Cat5 from each camera, back to a central location in each building (like a phone room). The central power supply (or individual transformer supplies) would go there. From there, you would pull your "multi-camera" runs to the phone room at the building with the DVR. The cables would split out and the two runs would splice together in that room. I normally use the blue pair in a camera run for video, green and orange pairs for power, and leave the brown for a spare or a data run (serial control, etc.)

 

Cat5 is not required for video baluns - it's just commonly used because it's fairly cheap, and gives the option to upgrade later to IP. We've used station-Z wire (four 22ga. wires, un-twisted), and as ptzguy says, you could use a single bundle of 25-pair or larger multicore between buildings if you wanted (especially handy if it's already there).

 

You could also run coax and power from that phone room to the cameras, and put your baluns in the phone room, using Cat5 or multicore to get the signals to the other building.

[Dirk_D 0]

ground loop isolators can be helpful but not 100% effective if your cables run near 3phase etc.

 

Never heard of these - how do they work?

[Soundy 1]

Generally, they use a transformer to physically separate the two sides of the circuit.

[Campbell 0]

Any reason why its analog? Not that I know the layout at all, but in general, IP solutions are about 15% cheaper than analog.

 

It might not be feasible but its certainly worth a look.