Remote recording from multiple sites

[turnbow99 1]

I work for a conveinance store company with 47 units currently. Each of these units have 4 to 8 cameras on site. None are IP cameras. We are installing dvr systems with network capabilities, and we have our own dedicated network. We want to be able to not only record locally, but also at our home office continuously. So we are talking about recording 250 to 300 cameras in a single place.

1. Can this be done over our network?

2. Will we be able to isolate each individual unit and then their cameras?

3. What will it take to do this?

 

Please not too technical. The systems we are using are pretty basic. The CCTV side of it I am pretty familiar with, the computer side of what we will need, I'm not so comfortable with. I do have IT people I can involve if the answer is too complicated. What I would really like to hear is specific equipment brands. Thanks.

[thewireguys 3]

Why do you want to do this? Why not just pull recorded video from the remote site when you need to review recorded video? This also depends on the capability of your DVRs. I have systems the you can do dual recording to two different system and they can also off load video at schedule times.

 

Streaming continuously 47 DVR's over web will take a lot of bandwidth. Each site will be X amount of upload bandwidth and then the headend will need (X * number of sites) download bandwidth. This will not be cheap.

[turnbow99 1]

We have had our units damaged and stolen bNHy burglars in the past. We want to be able to watch the break ins from remote locations. Security cabinets have not worked. In fact, at one store they actually took an atm machine that was mounted to the floor. Hiding the dvr wont work, because employees have been involved in the robberies and knew where to look. My boss wants remote recording. He is not going to be happy until he gets it.

[thewireguys 3]

OK what DVRs do you have and what is your budget?

[turnbow99 1]

4 and 8 channel with 500 gig hard drives. Not real high end stuff, but it serves our local purposes. They are h.264 units. As far as a budget, we don't know enough to set one at this point. Lets call it $10,000.00 to start. Thanks for the help.

[thewireguys 3]

Well I need to know the model number from the DVR to see if you can use it or if you will need to replace all of your DVRs with a unit that can support dual recording or remote backup.

[rory 0]

Like wireguys said, need to know the brand and model, need to see if their software even supports that feature. Also like he said, that will take a ton of bandwidth for that many DVRs and cameras, even if only recording it based on the motion detection from the DVR, and the motion detection from cheap DVRs is not 100% accurate.

 

Additionally the video may not be the quality of the recorded local video. And for that number of cameras to cut back on bandwidth you may have to use lower quality anyway like CIF, and lower bitrate. Will it work, well once you get past the bandwidth issues, yes you would get somewhat usable video, but that depends as it might not always detect the motion, or might get bogged down uploading the video from multiple cameras at the same site at the same time. I was doing this for the past couple months on my own DVR on my local network, to my PC as my DVR had no hard drive, at least one time when someone walked right in front of the camera it didnt record it (could have been my PC though). Since it is recording locally as well though in your case then it might not be that big a deal, but just have to realize there is the chance it wont capture a certain event remotely. I havent tested recording continuously and not sure if that is even available.

 

Some DVRs also do alarm video monitoring, so you can have a camera popup and display for X amount of seconds on motion detection. This can be set to display on different windows or monitors.

 

But like I said, not all DVRs have these options.

Especially the cheap DVRs.

[turnbow99 1]

We have different brands we are using. They do have motion detection on them and we are using it. I have not had any problems with it picking up any movement. In fact, for the price I am getting these for, i have been well pleased with the performance. We only need a couple of weeks worth of viewing, if that makes any differance

[thewireguys 3]

Avigilon can do this with computer located at each site for local recording and one or two analog encoders depending on 4/8 cameras. This would do everything you want plus have the ability to at megapixel cameras in the future but this still doesn't over come the bandwidth issue.

 

You could also look at hosted solution but you will need to play monthly fees per camera. Something like this: http://www.mycamserver.com/ip-camera-hosting

 

I don't know the cost of that hosted solution but you will be looking at a say $15 per camera per month.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

We have different brands we are using. They do have motion detection on them and we are using it. I have not had any problems with it picking up any movement. In fact, for the price I am getting these for, i have been well pleased with the performance. We only need a couple of weeks worth of viewing, if that makes any differance

 

You will need to upgrade/replace all of your DVRs to a system that can do this.

[turnbow99 1]

We can already view the cameras over our network, we just need to record it.

[tomcctv 190]

We can already view the cameras over our network, we just need to record it.

 

 

Hi turnbow. you need to list what make dvrs you have. alot of dvrs work with cms software.

[thewireguys 3]

We can already view the cameras over our network, we just need to record it.

 

I understand.... but it is not this easy my friend. Even if you get lucky enough to find CMS software that will record all of your DVRs you still have a MAJOR bandwidth issue to over come.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Unless you have some real bandwidth from the store to the office this is all a waste of webspace.

I think a T1 would be an absolute minimum at each store.

[thewireguys 3]

Unless you have some real bandwidth from the store to the office this is all a waste of webspace.

I think a T1 would be an absolute minimum at each store.

 

 

Agreed I think the only real solution that still will not be cheap but would work is a hosted solution. You would still need the upload at each site but you would not need the big fat pipe had the head end.

 

Also I would look at your ISP and see if they will let you stream 24/7 and do they have any bandwidth caps. We did a hosted solution trial 2 years ago and each customer received a letter from there ISPs stating they went over there limit and would be shut off if it continued.

 

BTW the Avigilon system would record locally and off load the video at a per-determined time. This way you could stagger your backups and save bandwidth.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Guest

[Soundy 1]

We can already view the cameras over our network, we just need to record it.

What you're not getting is that viewing and recording cameras over the internet are two very different things. Almost all DVRs have software that will do the former (whether in a client app or through a browser); very few will do the latter. And as others have noted, you have a problem when you introduce different brands and models, because you'll probably end up with numerous different client apps just to view them... nevermind one central app to record them.

 

And as others have stated, bandwidth will still be the killer - 47 sites, even if each is only sending a total of half a megabit, you're going to need a *23.5 megabit* pipe at the office end.

[turnbow99 1]

Thanks guys. I am learning a lot here. We have already put a freeze on purchasing any more equipment until we can figure this out. What do any of you suggest we use from ground up that will accomplish our goal? Thanks again.

[Soundy 1]

Personally, I'd suggest identifying one or two "critical areas" of each store that you want "backed-up" coverage of, then either use designated IP cameras to cover those areas, or use video-to-IP encoders to digitize the existing analog cameras on those areas... then connect each store to your head office via VPN, and have those cameras each record to an NVR at head office.

 

Realize that, even at this, the NVR is NOT going to be inexpensive - even at one camera per site, you're still looking at 47 channel licenses for whatever NVR you use (might even require two machines). This will, however, cut down your bandwidth needs substantially, and eliminate the issue of getting different DVR brands and models to all talk to one remote recorder.

 

The other thing you could do is take a "spot" output from each site's DVR, feed that into a video encoder, and then record that output back at head office. The downside to this is that you'll be have to find a trade-off between the number of cameras you record vs. the resolution - look at DVR's screen, whether a single camera, or a split-screen of multiple cameras... and then imagine recording that display.

 

And again, the NVR would be the significant cost, as you're still looking at 47 channels.

 

One other thought would be to use some form out outboard storage (network, USB, or other type of external drive) that you can hide away on each site... then if someone steals the DVR, you still have the footage tucked away, where not even the employees need to know about it. Catch here is, you'll probably have to replace a good number, if not all, of the the DVRs with models that support external storage.

[rory 0]

We can already view the cameras over our network, we just need to record it.

Well if you are viewing the cameras already, thats just the stream, next you have to record it, so if all you want to do is record the stream you are viewing remotely, that wont effect the bandwidth anymore than it is already, but it will add alot of extra processing to your monitoring computer. But then depends on the DVR's desktop software, can you schedule it to record? Just to record what you are streaming, not to download video from the DVR 24/7? Then it could work. Still have the issue of the bandwidth to stream 400 cameras though, at least at the main remote monitoring site, that will need killer download bandwidth. If you are only streaming in CIF from each office only 4 cameras then they are fine, generally, but its still alot of uploading 24/7 and you will likely still have issues with your ISP.

[milo81 0]

As Soundy as suggested - You can choose few important cameras in each store and connect them to an IP encoder and record them at your office.If bandwidth at the office is an issue- you can store the recordings on a cloud based hosted video surveillance solutions.If you are worried about security of the cloud based solution you can deploy the solution in a dedicated server in any of the data centers and modify your firewall rules so that the server can access the cameras/ip encoders.

Also if the software works with your existing DVR ,you would not even need the IP encoders.

 

Hope this is has been useful.

 

Milo

http://vuelogix.com

[Soundy 1]

We can already view the cameras over our network, we just need to record it.

Well if you are viewing the cameras already, thats just the stream, next you have to record it, so if all you want to do is record the stream you are viewing remotely, that wont effect the bandwidth anymore than it is already

Except, Rory, I doubt they're viewing ALL the cameras remotely, ALL the time.

 

But then depends on the DVR's desktop software, can you schedule it to record?

He's already stated that they have multiple different brands and models of DVRs, so it's unlikely ALL of them would support it... and they'd still have to run several different remote clients to get it done.

[tctechsys 0]

Check this out for more info on CCTVs www.tctechsystems.com/security-camera-installation/