Newbie, should I use rg59 or cat5

[troy6363 0]

Hello all. I am a newbie and will be installing my first surveillance system in my home. I plan to use 4 wired day night cams and a 4 channel dvr. I have been online searching and found out I can use cat5 cable as an alternative to rg59. Which is more preferred in a home installation and more cost effective (including the extra baluns i have to purchase). Also how do I get power to the cameras if I use cat5?

[Soundy 1]

Cat5 will allow you to run power and video on a single cable - one pair for video, two or three pairs for power.

 

The caveat is, if you're using cheap 12VDC cameras with baluns, you risk having ground-loop issues. If they're AC or dual-voltage cameras, or have built-in voltage regulators, then this shouldn't be a problem.

 

Cost-wise it depends mostly on the price you can get your cable and baluns for - around here, Cat5e and RG59 both retail at almost exactly the same price, but with coax, you also need something for power: many people use 18/2, but we typically use station wire (22/4). The longer the runs, generally, the more the cost benefit leans toward UTP/baluns, since the cost of the baluns will be the same whether your run is 10 feet or 1000 feet, whereas the cost of the power wire will go up with the length of the run.

[rory 0]

RG59 18/2 Siamese .... unless running alot of long runs to the same areas, or might replace with IP cameras in the near future. Cat5 is also nice with cameras with RS485 control.

[troy6363 0]

Cat5 will allow you to run power and video on a single cable - one pair for video, two or three pairs for power.

 

The caveat is, if you're using cheap 12VDC cameras with baluns, you risk having ground-loop issues. If they're AC or dual-voltage cameras, or have built-in voltage regulators, then this shouldn't be a problem.

 

Cost-wise it depends mostly on the price you can get your cable and baluns for - around here, Cat5e and RG59 both retail at almost exactly the same price, but with coax, you also need something for power: many people use 18/2, but we typically use station wire (22/4). The longer the runs, generally, the more the cost benefit leans toward UTP/baluns, since the cost of the baluns will be the same whether your run is 10 feet or 1000 feet, whereas the cost of the power wire will go up with the length of the run.

 

Thankyou for the fast reply. Yes I am using rather cheap cameras that use 12VDC. Im kinda lost in your post. What is ground-loop issues? Does RG59 carry the power wire also? I will need to research what 18/2 is because Im a newbie. My runs will be no more than 300ft for each cam if that.

[Soundy 1]

RG59 18/2 Siamese .... unless running alot of long runs to the same areas, or might replace with IP cameras in the near future. Cat5 is also nice with cameras with RS485 control.

 

Siamese is even more expensive than separate RG59 and 18/2.

 

Retail here for Cat5e is about $100/1000' box. RG59 runs about the same.

 

RG59+18/2 Siamese... $158. For a 500' box. That's over three times the price of Cat5e, and well over twice the price of coax and separate power.

[troy6363 0]

Soundy, what do you recommend I go with?

[Soundy 1]

Cat5 will allow you to run power and video on a single cable - one pair for video, two or three pairs for power.

 

The caveat is, if you're using cheap 12VDC cameras with baluns, you risk having ground-loop issues. If they're AC or dual-voltage cameras, or have built-in voltage regulators, then this shouldn't be a problem.

 

Cost-wise it depends mostly on the price you can get your cable and baluns for - around here, Cat5e and RG59 both retail at almost exactly the same price, but with coax, you also need something for power: many people use 18/2, but we typically use station wire (22/4). The longer the runs, generally, the more the cost benefit leans toward UTP/baluns, since the cost of the baluns will be the same whether your run is 10 feet or 1000 feet, whereas the cost of the power wire will go up with the length of the run.

 

Thankyou for the fast reply. Yes I am using rather cheap cameras that use 12VDC. Im kinda lost in your post. What is ground-loop issues? Does RG59 carry the power wire also? I will need to research what 18/2 is because Im a newbie. My runs will be no more than 300ft for each cam if that.

 

RG59 coax does NOT carry power (except for a few cameras that use a proprietary system; it is generally for video signal only.

 

18/2 is 18 gauge, 2 conductor wire, which is commonly used for power. Over longer runs, 16/2 (16 gauge, 2 conductor) may be used. As noted, we usually use "station-Z" wire for power when we're using coax - that's a 22/4 wire (22 gauge, four conductors), as it's also useful for other purposes, and means we don't have to carry as many different types of wire.

 

Ground loops are a phenomenon that occurs where there are multiple ground paths of different length (or more to the point, of different resistance/potential) for a signal to follow. With cheap cameras, both signal and power use a common ground (there are grounds on each of the power and signal wires, but they're connected together internally).

 

When you use a common power supply, you're then creating multiple paths for each camera, as each camera's signal is grounded to the DVR, not just through its own signal-ground wire, but through the power wire, back to the power supply, then to another camera, and back again through that camera's ground... and so on with multiple cameras.

 

Normally this isn't a problem as the resistance is low and the runs are relatively short... however, when you add baluns, these put a transformer in line with the signal lines at both ends of the run, effectively adding substantial length and resistance to the signal ground. Once you add in the distance of the signal "bouncing" through other cameras, you end up with significant differences, which can create ground loops... in essence, the ground wire then acts like an antenna, picking up all sorts of noise and interference.

 

This can be avoided by separating the power sources - using individual transformers for each camera will usually negate the problem, since the power grounds of each camera aren't connected together. Cameras with built-in power regulation achieves the same end as well.

[troy6363 0]

Ok thanks. That cleared up alot of my confusion

[Soundy 1]

Soundy, what do you recommend I go with?

We use Cat5 almost exclusively. We're installing a lot of IP cameras, so it's handy to have it already in place for future upgrades... and handy to not have to carry multiple different types of cable - I can carry four boxes of Cat5 in the same space in my van that it would normally take for one box each of Cat5, RG59, and station-Z.

 

Typically, I'll use the blue pair for video (blue for signal +, white/blue for signal -), the green pair tied together for power ground/neutral, orange pair tied together for power positive/line, and leave the brown pair as a spare or for RS-485 control. There's no particular reason for these color choices, they just made sense to me at the time, so it's what we use.

 

I recommend whatever you feel comfortable with, but we find Cat5 works well for us.

[rory 0]

Siamese is even more expensive than separate RG59 and 18/2.

 

Retail here for Cat5e is about $100/1000' box. RG59 runs about the same.

 

RG59+18/2 Siamese... $158. For a 500' box. That's over three times the price of Cat5e, and well over twice the price of coax and separate power.

 

Not here, time as we add in the cost of baluns its cheaper to use RG59 Siamese.

 

Example 4 camera job, I get 400' RG59 Siamese and 8 BNCs for say $130 locally, thats $32 per run approx.

If I used baluns they would be approx $50 for 2 (eg. $25 each landed minus markup), so that would be $200 just for the baluns, plus the 400' Cat5.

 

Guess it really depends what price one gets their cable and connectors for and what the client needs.

[Soundy 1]

But Rory, I don't think anyone else in the world has the same kind of skewed, f**ed-up costs you have to deal with...

[rory 0]

But Rory, I don't think anyone else in the world has the same kind of skewed, f**ed-up costs you have to deal with...

 

What you talking bout chief? Near decent baluns average $20 each and thats wholesale in America .. so thats still $40 per run plus everything else .. also according to you i get RG59 Siamese cheaper here than in Canada ..

[Soundy 1]

But Rory, I don't think anyone else in the world has the same kind of skewed, f**ed-up costs you have to deal with...

 

What you talking bout chief? Near decent baluns average $20 each and thats wholesale in America ..

GEM, $13/pr. GVI, $8/pr (same ones are on DealExtreme.com for $5/pr.). I did substantial testing over ~800' of Cat5e comparing both of these to other GEMs, GVIs, Muxlabs, and NVTs ranging from $18 to $45 each and found little or no noticeable differences in transmission quality.

 

so thats still $40 per run plus everything else .. also according to you i get RG59 Siamese cheaper here than in Canada ..

All the cable prices I noted are retail. Obviously we're not paying that much.

[rory 0]

GEM, $13/pr. GVI, $8/pr (same ones are on DealExtreme.com for $5/pr.). I did substantial testing over ~800' of Cat5e comparing both of these to other GEMs, GVIs, Muxlabs, and NVTs ranging from $18 to $45 each and found little or no noticeable differences in transmission quality.

thanks but ill stay clear of the really cheap ones (for now), I cant afford to send them back when they dont perform or dont work properly. besides not everyone is paying what you pay for it, and then surely you mark it up for the client?

 

All the cable prices I noted are retail.

me too.