video encoder recommendations?

[alpine0000 0]

So after talking about it for the last 6 months, I am *finally* upgrading my analog system to IP.

 

I just ordered my Dell server. It ships next week

 

I am not replacing all 6 analog cameras at once. I figure I will use a video encoder to get me started, and since most of them are single or 4-channel, I guess I am going to go with a 4-channel, which puts me at replacing 2 of my analog cameras with IP right from the start.

 

So I have been looking at the AXIS Q7404. It looks great. I am willing to spend the money on the AXIS, however, at > $1,000, I am wondering what my other (comparible) options are that might save me a bunch of money (I don't want junk though ).

 

I did a search on the forum, but it seems like only a few encoder topics have come up since 2009, and since new hardware is released all the time, I figured I'd start a new topic again.

 

Once I get the encoder, I need to look into a POE switch and 2 IP cams. Was looking at the Vivotek FD8161 for indoor, and the Netgear GS108P switch (I guess I will need two of them eventually since only 4 ports are POE (or just buy an 8-port POE), but it may be a while before I have more than 4 IP cameras. Will probably replace a camera every few months).

 

Then I need to pick up 6 exacq licenses, Windows 7 Pro, and a spool of CAT6. I already have a nice battery backup waiting at home for the server

 

This stuff adds up quick!

 

So, back on topic... Recommendations for a 4-port video encoder that costs signigicantly less than the AXIS, but is just as reliable? I don't care about audio, but I do want H.264.

[thewireguys 3]

Aviglon 4 channel encoder is 1/3 the price and only requires 1 license for 4 cameras.

 

The Axes encoder you are looking at requires 4 Exacq licenses.

[alpine0000 0]

Aviglon 4 channel encoder is 1/3 the price and only requires 1 license for 4 cameras.

 

The Axes encoder you are looking at requires 4 Exacq licenses.

 

Thanks Mike,

 

Would I lose any functionality by using the Avigilon instead of the Axis? What, if anything, would I be giving up?

[Soundy 1]

For a good switch, I highly recommend the Cisco SFE1000P: eight 10/100 PoE ports, two non-PoE gigabit combo ports (miniGBIC/GbE) - perfect for up to seven cameras and one uplink, and NVR & NAS on the GbE ports (or eight cameras, plus NVR and uplink... or whatever). Fully managed, too. They generally retail for <$300.

[alpine0000 0]

For a good switch, I highly recommend the Cisco SFE1000P: eight 10/100 PoE ports, two non-PoE gigabit combo ports (miniGBIC/GbE) - perfect for up to seven cameras and one uplink, and NVR & NAS on the GbE ports (or eight cameras, plus NVR and uplink... or whatever). Fully managed, too. They generally retail for <$300.

 

Thanks Matt,

 

So, do you think Gigabit for each camera is overkill? I am sure it is today, but I was just thinking tomorrow and beyond.

 

Perhaps I should just go with gigabit to the server, and 10/100 to the cameras? I was just gonna do gigabit since they can be had online for $145 for a 4-port, or less than $300 for an 8-port. Although, it is Netgear, and I'm not sure how that compares to Cisco. I have only owned linksys and netgear all my life. No experience with Cisco hardware. I just looked at netgear because they've never done me wrong I am open to any other options though. I will check out the Cisco.

[Soundy 1]

Cisco and LinkSys are the same company - LinkSys is Cisco's "consumer" brand. (In fact, depending on where you shop, you'll also find the SFE1000P marketed under the LinkSys name).

 

I think it will be a while yet before cameras even have GbE ports on them... longer before they actually need it. Long enough to not worry about it right now, anyway - GbE switches will get a lot cheaper by then anyway. Keep in mind that by the time cameras actually need GbE speed, you'll need a 10GbE connection to the NVR to handle more than a couple of them, too.

 

Also, remember that with two four-port switches, you have AT MOST five available for the cameras - you lose one port on each switch to connect them together, another to plug in the NVR... yet another if you want to link it to the rest of your network. The NVR and uplink are a given on any setup anyway, but interlinking two switches just seems a waste of two ports vs. just going to a larger switch...

 

You're looking at $300 for an 8-port gigabit that will only give you four PoE ports... I'm suggesting eight PoE ports plus two gigabit for the same price.

[thewireguys 3]

Netgear has a 8 port gigabit desktop POE switch. Its cheaper then the Cisco

[Soundy 1]

Yeah, is that the same one he already listed that only has four PoE ports?

 

So after talking about it for the last 6 months, I am *finally* upgrading my analog system to IP.

 

I just ordered my Dell server. It ships next week

 

I am not replacing all 6 analog cameras at once. I figure I will use a video encoder to get me started, and since most of them are single or 4-channel, I guess I am going to go with a 4-channel, which puts me at replacing 2 of my analog cameras with IP right from the start.

 

So I have been looking at the AXIS Q7404. It looks great. I am willing to spend the money on the AXIS, however, at > $1,000, I am wondering what my other (comparible) options are that might save me a bunch of money (I don't want junk though ).

 

I did a search on the forum, but it seems like only a few encoder topics have come up since 2009, and since new hardware is released all the time, I figured I'd start a new topic again.

 

Once I get the encoder, I need to look into a POE switch and 2 IP cams. Was looking at the Vivotek FD8161 for indoor, and the Netgear GS108P switch (I guess I will need two of them eventually since only 4 ports are POE (or just buy an 8-port POE), but it may be a while before I have more than 4 IP cameras. Will probably replace a camera every few months).

 

Then I need to pick up 6 exacq licenses, Windows 7 Pro, and a spool of CAT6. I already have a nice battery backup waiting at home for the server

 

This stuff adds up quick!

 

So, back on topic... Recommendations for a 4-port video encoder that costs signigicantly less than the AXIS, but is just as reliable? I don't care about audio, but I do want H.264.

[alpine0000 0]

No, netgear sells one with 8 POE ports, but i think it has a bunch of enterprise settings for linking multiple switches together and a fiber uplink, which is why i didnt initially look into it, because i was paying for extra stuff that i wouldnt use. Thats why I was looking at the 4POE/4non-POE version, because it was a standard, simpler switch.

 

But regarding your comment on the fact that two 4-port switches wont be enough: these switches actually have 4 POE ports and 4 non-POE (actually 8 ports, see image below), so since my server and the connection to the rest of my network wouldnt need POE, it should have me covered with enough POE ports if I did decide to go the netgear GS108P route

 

Thanks again for the feedback. Much appreciated. I am still open to more comments/suggestions on my setup, or for switches or encoders.

 

[thewireguys 3]

Yeah, is that the same one he already listed that only has four PoE ports?

 

No... This one is POE on all ports.

 

[thewireguys 3]

Aviglon 4 channel encoder is 1/3 the price and only requires 1 license for 4 cameras.

 

The Axes encoder you are looking at requires 4 Exacq licenses.

 

Thanks Mike,

 

Would I lose any functionality by using the Avigilon instead of the Axis? What, if anything, would I be giving up?

 

Avigilon will give you much better image quality with JPEG2000 compression and it is powered with POE so you have a cleaner easier install.

[alpine0000 0]

Aviglon 4 channel encoder is 1/3 the price and only requires 1 license for 4 cameras.

 

The Axes encoder you are looking at requires 4 Exacq licenses.

 

Thanks Mike,

 

Would I lose any functionality by using the Avigilon instead of the Axis? What, if anything, would I be giving up?

 

Avigilon will give you much better image quality with JPEG2000 compression and it is powered with POE so you have a cleaner easier install.

 

So is my only option on the Avigilon JPEG2000? Not that that's a bad thing, just wondering... I had originally planned on doing H.264, but I don't exactly have my heart set on that. I am open to suggestions. Do you prefer JPEG2000 over H.264 due to the image quality improvement?

 

So, am I right in saying that the only difference between the Axis I was looking at and the Avigilon that you suggested, is that the Axis can stream audio (which I dont care about), the Axis can do H.264, and the Axis can do multiple streams per channel? I def wont use the audio or multiple streams per channel, but may use the H.264.

 

Am I missing anything else?

 

Thanks again for the input.

[mike_va 0]

I have various axis encoders and the multiple streams are nice on to record, one for web page. I've seen the 241Q go for around $400 used on ebay. I use 241S and 243.

 

Keep in mind cameras depending on the compression will be 15 maybe 19Mbs, I used gigabit and 10/100 mixture had to do it over I'd buy gigabit and POE injectors for $20 ea.

[alpine0000 0]

had to do it over I'd buy gigabit and POE injectors for $20 ea.

 

Hey Mike_VA,

 

just curious: why would you buy a non-poe gigabit switch and use injectors instead of just buying a POE switch? cost reasons, or is it something else I'm not aware of?

 

Regards,

[mike_va 0]

just curious: why would you buy a non-poe gigabit switch and use injectors instead of just buying a POE switch? cost reasons, or is it something else I'm not aware of?

Have not seen any reasonably priced gigabit w POE. My rig right now runs at 70-80Mbs, my synology NAS I've seen peaks on the network of 60MBs (or 480Mbs). I also have netflix and other stuff on the network why bog it down? Content is only going up in the future, including cameras...

 

Thus right now I kind of consolidate cameras on two 10/100 POE switches, and tie those to the Gigabit switch to the computer. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm not a networking expert

[Sawbones 0]

Get a proper switch.

 

By that I mean a brand-name (Cisco/Linksys, Nortel, etc) PoE switch. I have a rack-mounted Linksys SGE2000P 24-port PoE switch in my server rack at home (with every port in use), and it works great.

 

It's also a managed switch, so I can log into the switch's web interface and manage ports, determine PoE wattage, set up VLANs, etc. The ports auto-detect PoE devices, and connects those devices at 10/100 speed. However, the internal bus of the switch is gigabit, so it can collect all those 100-megabit streams and deliver them to a full-gigabit port (like the DVR).

 

Always buy bigger than you need. I never dreamed I'd fill up a 24-port switch, since I started with a dozen cat6 drops in the house. However, as my system has grown to the dozen-or-so cameras, it now takes the entire switch.

 

Always buy more than you think you'll need. As a tinkerer, I suspect you'll grow into it.

[mike_va 0]

Always buy more than you think you'll need. As a tinkerer, I suspect you'll grow into it.

+1

[bpzle 0]

Encoders are very expensive... I would personaly rather invest encoder $ into IP cams. You could get 2x MP IP cams for the price of a decent 4 ch encoder...

 

May I ask what the apeal is to Exacq when using analog cams?

 

Avermedia hybrid capture cards are fairly inexpnsive in comparison to encoders, and you won't have to buy any IP licenses...

 

After you phase out your analog cams, sell the Aver capture card and upgrade to Exacq!

[alpine0000 0]

Encoders are very expensive... I would personaly rather invest encoder $ into IP cams. You could get 2x MP IP cams for the price of a decent 4 ch encoder...

 

May I ask what the apeal is to Exacq when using analog cams?

 

Avermedia hybrid capture cards are fairly inexpnsive in comparison to encoders, and you won't have to buy any IP licenses...

 

After you phase out your analog cams, sell the Aver capture card and upgrade to Exacq!

 

Hey bpizle

 

I also had the same thought as you about just going ahead and spending the money on IP cams instead of an encoder, but I cannot install all of the cameras right now (I need to run a lot of cabling through walls and ceilings, and with my schedule that'll take time. Plus my budget is allowing for maybe one new camera every month or two). But I think I am going to go for the Axis 214Q encoder, which is only $750, compared to ~$3k that I would spend on the four IP cameras, and I can sell the encoder later and only take a couple hundred dollar loss I think.

 

To answer your question on why I want exacq with analog cameras: I figure I will get the server and exacq set up now and upgrade two cameras, and then slowly upgrade the remaining cameras over the coming months. But, as for why I want exacq to begin with: two main things attracted me to it: Any browser (no active-x! ) and apps for iOS and android. These are crucial for me, as I travel a ton and am not always at a regular PC.

[alpine0000 0]

Get a proper switch.

 

By that I mean a brand-name (Cisco/Linksys, Nortel, etc) PoE switch.

 

I plan on getting a proper switch. Netgear is decent, aren't they? Or are they considered not-so-good? I am looking now at the Netgear GS110TP. My favorite egg website sells it for $271. It is 8 ports of Gigabit POE.

 

 

Always buy more than you think you'll need. As a tinkerer, I suspect you'll grow into it.

 

Hmm. While I do agree with that logic, I have a pretty small house and don't need more than 6 cameras. In fact, now that I am going to IP, I think I may be able to have one camera take the place of two cameras in two instances. So I MIGHT even be dropping down to 4 or 5 cameras eventually -- not sure yet though. I think an 8 port should be enough, yea? It is already bigger than I think I will need. Especially considering that this switch is *only* for my cameras. I already have a non-POE 8 port gigabit switch for the rest of my network (which isnt all that extensive, to be honest. Just a network printer, a NAS, vonage, slingbox, and then wireless client laptops). If I end up outgrowing it in a few years, I wouldn't mind buying another switch at that point

[thewireguys 3]

The GS110TP is a good switch I have 2 of them installed at a large Enterprise job will a total of 6 Netgear switches with over 400Mbits of trafic.

 

If you want more room to expand look at the FS728TP-100NAS. It's about $100 more then the 8 port but you will get full 24 ports POE and 4 GB uplinks.

[Sawbones 0]

I wasn't bagging on the Netgear switch... just pointing out that you might need more in the future.

 

However, for a very small house, you might be all set with that eight-port model.

 

As for the encoder, get an Axis 241Q. Those pop up on the used market all the time. Hell... Spooner just sold a handful of those in the Classifieds for an average of about $400 each, which is about the going rate on Ebay as well. They have no moving parts, and are just as good used as new. Why buy new (and pay >double the price) if you're simply going to use it temporarily?

 

You can use that as a bridge to a full-IP conversion, and then resell it for roughly what you paid.

 

*************** Edit ****************

 

Here is the link to Spooner's Classified post:

 

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24150

[bpzle 0]

^Good idea!

[alpine0000 0]

Darn. Too bad I missed that great deal in the classifieds...

 

Well, today I ordered an Axis 241Q encoder, the Netgear GS110TP gigabit 8 port POE switch, windows 7 pro, and a Western Digital 1.5TB Enterprise HDD for the server when it gets here from Dell. I have a feeling I will most likely need to order another 1.5TB drive, but we'll see.

 

I'm also going with two Vivotek FD8161 indoor IP cams to get me started. In the coming months I will replace my outdoor cams with some nice IP ones. I shouldve done those first, but they are a real pain, plus I havent found a camera yet that I want to use outside.

 

Once my server arrives, I will need to buy 3 Exacq VMS licenses, too. That should get me started off nice.

 

Thanks for the suggestions everybody! I am on my way to a much nicer system...