Grocery store system

[neon5 0]

Hi everyone! I've been enjoying the forum lately and I had some questions with regards to a medium sized IP camera system that a friend and I are tasked with installing.

 

My first question is about cameras. Since this is a retail location we don't need HD resolution (except one or two HD cameras for the entrances).

Does anyone have any recommendations for this type of situation?

So far we've noticed some AXIS cameras such as the M1103, this would be about the level that we are looking at for the bulk of the cameras. I can't find much online as to reviews and such. We haven't settled on this brand, just noticed their stuff.

 

Also camera monitoring and recording software.

We are building a server to capture the video feed and might possibly have another computer set up as a viewer. What is out there that would accommodate possibly multiple brands of cameras (this system will be built slowly and won't be complete for probably another 2 years!). Again, we noticed the Milestone software because they seem to support a glut of brands out there.

Website: http://www.milestonesys.com/products/ip_video_software/xprotect_professional

 

Does anyone have any recommendations for software that would give us what Milestone would? Does anyone have experience with the Milestone software?

We do plan on trying some demo versions if we can.

 

This is a really unfamiliar area to us so I really appreciate any knowledge shared!

 

Cheers

[thewireguys 3]

Best advice I can give you is hire a professional.

[neon5 0]

I didn't mention this before, but this project is going to slowly replace an analog system that we installed maybe 7-8 years ago, we just need a second opinion on IP camera software.

Can any of you recommend Milestone software or is there a better package out there?

[thewireguys 3]

It all depends on your needs wants and goals. There are hundreds of VMS providers on the market but you need to pick you cameras first before you pick VMS and don't order your server till you decide on your VMS. How many cameras? Are you using megapixel cameras? (if not you should be)

 

IP cameras are not just plug in and go. If you have no networking experience I strongly recommended you don't do this. You think you will be saving money but in the long run you will be wasting alot of time and money.

 

All of the products listed below have there advantages and disadvantaged.

 

Personally I think Milestone is not very user friendly and there are expensive yearly software fees

 

If it was my job to bid I would use Avigilon. Easy to use, better integration with cameras and no recurring fees.

 

Milestone

Exacq

Avigilon

ONSSI

Genetec

3xLogic

Aimetis

DVTel

Geovision

ipConfigure

JDS

LuxRiot

Nuuo

Qnap

Video Insight

[Sawbones 0]

What is avigilon getting per-channel for their software?

 

 

************ Edit ************

 

And I agree with hiring somebody if you're not a networking guy... you'll be pulling your hair out in no time flat, and you'll end up hiring somebody anyway.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

What is avigilon getting per-channel for their software?

 

see PM

[neon5 0]

Thankfully we have a fair amount of networking experience... Any chance on letting me know what Avigilon is getting per channel as well?

Thanks!

[Silence 0]

IP cameras are not just plug in and go. If you have no networking experience I strongly recommended you don't do this. You think you will be saving money but in the long run you will be wasting alot of time and money.

 

Could u perhaps elaborate a bit more on that? The camera's get a IP address, and it should be pretty straight forward after that? Of course you have to consider the impact on the existing infrastructure, but other than that is there something I'm missing?

 

Lastly, is it possible to get a trial version of the avigilon software? And could someone PM me the price of it? I wrote the sales in Europe, but it's been a few days and no answer

[tomcctv 189]

IP cameras are not just plug in and go. If you have no networking experience I strongly recommended you don't do this. You think you will be saving money but in the long run you will be wasting alot of time and money.

 

Could u perhaps elaborate a bit more on that? The camera's get a IP address, and it should be pretty straight forward after that? Of course you have to consider the impact on the existing infrastructure, but other than that is there something I'm missing?(

 

 

Hi silence. yes your missing alot. first you never use an existing network infrastucture. you put your own in dedicated to the cctv system. no third party involvment needed from the existing network guys.

 

yes all an ip camera needs is an ip and away you go. if you dont want your network secured.

also the planning / how many cameras / size switchers / software ..... will it run the cameras you want to use is it licence free for some or all cameras

 

ip systems you price right down to the $ your own network any other way and you losing money.

[Soundy 1]

Wow, everyone's so doom-and-gloom all of a sudden!

 

neon5, don't let them scare you - it's really not that complicated. You give the camera an IP, you enter the IP in the VMS/NVR, set your recording parameters, and away you go. If you're comfortable with networking and have a basic understanding of TCP/IP, it should be a snap.

 

It's definitely recommended for the cameras to be on their own network, but with a small setup, it's not the end of the world if you have to start your first couple cameras on existing infrastructure and move it to a separate network later. You're talking about a (small-ish?) grocery store - if all your network is carrying is some POS data, maybe your debit machines and a little internet surfing in the back office, you're not going to notice a problem until you get a few cameras going.

 

Not sure what tom's comment is about, "if you dont want your network secured" - if your cameras/NVR/VMS on on a completely separated network, they're plenty secure, unless someone brings a laptop into your store and plugs into the switch...???

 

I also disagree (somewhat) with the statement you should chose your cameras first and VMS second - it should be a combined process. If you chose your cameras first, you could end up limiting your VMS options, especially if you're mixing different brands of cameras. If you chose the wrong VMS, you could sharply limit your camera options. You need to look at both and compare what's supported before choosing either.

[tomcctv 189]

Not sure what tom's comment is about, "if you dont want your network secured" - if your cameras/NVR/VMS on on a completely separated network, they're plenty secure, unless someone brings a laptop into your store and plugs into the switch...???

 

 

is that not what i said to do. (own network) if he just plugs into the existing network .... thats the part he is not secured on.

 

but anyway things will have changed in two years

[ak357 0]

CCTV Forum Members only

 

1-800-CALL-SOUNDY

will be up and running in few days

first 2 hours is free

 

Apr 1

[Soundy 1]

^Remind me to fire my agent

[thewireguys 3]

4-8 camera systems low FPS not that big of deal. When you start getting to 15+ Megapixel with high FPS and low compression not as easy as Soundy (free tech support) makes it out to be.

[ak357 0]

^Remind me to fire my agent

 

I did talk to your agent

U right

his mistake

should be 4 hours free

sorry

 

[Sawbones 0]

4-8 camera systems low FPS not that big of deal. When you start getting to 15+ Megapixel with high FPS and low compression not as easy as Soundy (free tech support) makes it out to be.

 

Completely agree... unless the cameras require high-bandwidth, like some of the megapixel cams. If you put eight Acti megapixel cams on a 100-megabit network, you're going to eat up a lot of pipe. On the other hand, eight Mobotix cameras wouldn't eat up nearly as much of your network capacity (they're much thriftier about the bandwidth they require).

 

Eight analog cameras on two Axis 241Q servers wouldnt even begin to push a 100-megabit network, unless it were already maxed-out.

[neon5 0]

It's definitely recommended for the cameras to be on their own network, but with a small setup, it's not the end of the world if you have to start your first couple cameras on existing infrastructure and move it to a separate network later. You're talking about a (small-ish?) grocery store - if all your network is carrying is some POS data, maybe your debit machines and a little internet surfing in the back office, you're not going to notice a problem until you get a few cameras going.

 

It is a small grocery store (11 isles) and we are putting in our own network just for the cameras, in the end we will probably have a little more than 30 cameras going. All the switches (4 total) will have 1 Gigabit interconnect so we aren't really worried about bandwidth. In the end we will have something on the order of 5-6 HD cameras running, mostly for capturing faces of people as they walk in the door.

 

Also, is it pretty simple to get a demo of Avigilon? The owner really wants to try a few software brands to see what he is comfortable with and Avigilon does look tempting.

[ak357 0]

Also, is it pretty simple to get a demo of Avigilon? The owner really wants to try a few software brands to see what he is comfortable with and Avigilon does look tempting.

 

I can get you temp lic for Avigilon server

but you don't have Avigilon cam to try with server

or set you up with Avigilon online demo

if you install Avigilon Client

what do u wanna do ?

[Soundy 1]

Any particular reason for going with multiple separate switches, over just one bigger switch?

 

We use the Cisco SFE1000P extensively, which is a really solid managed unit with eight 10/100 PoE ports and two GbE/miniGBIC combo ports... there's also the SFE2000P, which is a 24+2-port version of same, and the SFE2010P, for a 48+2-port version... based on experience with the 1000, I wouldn't hesitate to use or recommend the larger versions.

[neon5 0]

I can get you temp lic for Avigilon server

but you don't have Avigilon cam to try with server

or set you up with Avigilon online demo

if you install Avigilon Client

what do u wanna do ?

 

Thanks for the offer ak357, once we have a server running we will probably line up an Avigilon demo with someone.

 

Any particular reason for going with multiple separate switches, over just one bigger switch?

 

Mainly because we are going to have the complete network set up immediately. Also, we would rather not have to run more than a few 200ft+ runs (it's hard enough to get up into the ceiling).

 

This thread is actually our network layout for now - http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24961