A proposal for a budget system

[enidone 0]

Hi all, brand new to these forums.

 

Due to some miscreants in the neighborhood, I need to monitor the outside of my property, preferably day and night. I need this to be able to lead to a conviction.

 

I have sought proposals for outdoor cameras from electricians, etc. but they tend to be rather pricey (>$2000). I am wondering whether I can DIY.

 

I am thinking of doing some monitoring through the windows to avoid vandalism. I know this will reduce the image quality but given that I think I know the person who's causing the problem I can probably do an ID with a fairly decent image (and so could the police).

 

I have a D-Link DCS-920 and a tower with 1 GHz of RAM and a 2 GHz processor running Vista. (Here's where my troubles begin.)

 

I tried monitoring the D-Link image with Vitamin D software, but a lot of critical motion was getting missed (like my car leaving the carport!!) and the camera image through Vitamin D would inexplicably go black or red a lot of times. For a system that has to be on all the time, this doesn't work.

 

My feeling is that my tower is woefully inadequate to this task in terms of computing horsepower. Also, the D-Link's native interface is, well, painful (does not support GMail and you should see me trying to set up FTP!!), and Vitamin D stops being freeware the minute you add a third camera. I'm not terribly happy with Vitamin D anyway.

 

So, here's what I'm thinking of doing:

 

1) Buy a barebones system with enough oomph (and cooling!) adequate to be an HTPC and put Ubuntu on it. I've run Linux before and am somewhat comfortable with it.

2) For maximum image quality, buy at least two two Panasonic IP cameras. I'm hoping I have a wireless option here since they will not be able to plug directly into my router. Otherwise I think I'll need a visit from Verizon or from an electrician to get cat5 run.

3) Aim the IP cameras out the windows of my choice.

4) Using the Panny's native interface, configure the cameras to save or FTP the images on motion to the barebones system or to an external drive or NAS. I am trying to avoid remote subscription-based storage.

5) Set up motion detector lights outside.

 

Budget: $1000 or less, not including item (5) which will go up anyway.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

[alpine0000 0]

...Buy a barebones system

 

...For maximum image quality, buy at least two Panasonic IP cameras.

 

Budget: $1000 or less, not including item (5) which will go up anyway.

 

Hello and welcome!

 

Your setup sounds like a decent one to get you going, for sure. My only thoughts are on your budget of $1000 for "at least two" panasonic IP cameras and a server. I'm thinking you will need to raise that budget by at least 50%, but I could be wrong. I was under the impression that the decent panasonic IP cameras were >$500 each. Not to mention, do you still need to purchase the NAS that you spoke of?

 

What about cabling and a battery backup? Do you already have those? And you won't be using any VMS, right? Just save the snapshot of the image to the NAS?

 

My only suggestion is concerning your camera inside the window: I had used one of those while I was in Iraq, and it worked great because nobody was home the entire time I was gone (I live alone), so the entire inside of the house was always pitch black. But the second any light comes on inside the house (and it doesnt take much light), the camera gets blinded by the glare on the window. So take that into consideration. When I came back from Iraq, I had to move my camera outside because I need lights inside my house at night time if im going to live there

[enidone 0]

Alpine,

 

Thanks for your response. You're right, those Panasonics are really expensive for my budget. After looking through this forum a bit I see that Vivotek is a respected brand. They have a $125 camera that probably would fit my needs.

 

Newbie question: what is a VMS? I'm guessing that it's "video monitoring system." I believe that saving image snapshots will be OK for me as long as I have a decent frame rate set up.

 

On the indoor-light issue, I've seen it on the D-Link when I get up in the morning & it's still dark out: the camera facing out the window records the activity inside and not outside! Fortunately for me, the activity that I want to monitor seems to be taking place during the day when I'm not around (hence no lights on). If it takes place at night when I'm asleep - no lights inside, motion detector floods outside - I may be OK there too.

 

I'm probably looking at a max of 4 cameras. I see recommendations on these forums for Blue Isis and I will certainly check it out. However, I think my tortoise of a desktop is going to hobble me no matter what if I use monitoring software and don't upgrade my hardware.

I think the element that is the grayest to me is the heart of the system - the desktop, server, or NAS that I should use.

 

Would you agree with me that my current desktop is underpowered for my purposes? It's a 2009 Acer Veriton M260. This unit is a slightly later lot but is not too far from what I have: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&q=acer+veriton+m460&sqi=2&cid=6914657030736248967&os=tech-specs

 

Any way of "cheaply" and adequately beefing up the current desktop as opposed to getting something new? I thought about putting in another 1GB of RAM and either upgrading to Windows 7 or getting rid of some current partitions & putting Ubuntu on instead.

 

I do like the idea of a monitor-free dedicated machine, particularly one that I can squirrel away in a room separate from my main desktop. I can always RDP into the dedicated box. Any hardware recommendations/user experience?

[tomcctv 190]

alpine0000 has been spot on with your budget costs. another cost is your existing pc. it is best to run your cctv on its own pc and not one you use for everyday use. so by the time you have upgraded your pc with extra storage and the likes. and with you only using 4 ip cameras . why not take a look at a small nvr .... no licence costs works with most ip cameras. and is much cheaper than a pc upgrade.

 

http://www.avermedia.com/AVerDiGi/Product/Detail.aspx?id=281

[alpine0000 0]

After looking through this forum a bit I see that Vivotek is a respected brand. They have a $125 camera that probably would fit my needs.

 

Vivotek is a decent mid-range camera. I just ordered an FD8161 that will be here on Thursday. Although, I paid $450 for it. I am not sure what kind of quality/picture that the $125 Vivotek would produce.

 

 

Newbie question: what is a VMS? I'm guessing that it's "video monitoring system."

 

Video Management System/Software. For example, Exacq, Avigilon, etc... It is software that you run on your server to manage/record video and manage client/web connections.

 

I think my tortoise of a desktop is going to hobble me no matter what if I use monitoring software

You are referring to a sort of VMS that I spoke of

 

I think the element that is the grayest to me is the heart of the system - the desktop, server, or NAS that I should use.

I recommend not using home/desktop-class hardware for recording, as most of those arent built to run and get taxed 24/7/365 like an actual server is. This is especially true for the hard drive. You will need an enterprise-class hard drive if you are recording around-the-clock on it. They're meant to read/write 24/7.

 

Would you agree with me that my current desktop is underpowered for my purposes? It's a 2009 Acer Veriton M260.

It depends on a lot of variables, really. Mainly, how many cameras will you have recording, and what VMS will you be running? Some VMS is a lot 'lighter' than others. For example, if one were to only have 1 camera with a really 'light' VMS, then I think your computer could be fine as far as the specs of RAM and processor, although your HDD might be short-lived if it is not an enterprise-class. Hard to say, though.

 

Any way of "cheaply" and adequately beefing up the current desktop as opposed to getting something new? I thought about putting in another 1GB of RAM...

Sure. Doubling your RAM would help, but you may also want to compare your processor with the minimum recommendations by the VMS that you use. Also, as mentioned before, make sure you have an enterprise-class hard drive.

 

Any hardware recommendations/user experience?

Dell T110 servers start at $299, and it should be more than enough for you.

 

Oh, and as tomcctv mentioned, have a dedicated computer for this. Don't use your personal computer that you surf the net with and use every day.

[enidone 0]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Dedicated, robust box looks like the way to go.

[xanview 0]

Thanks to everyone who responded. Dedicated, robust box looks like the way to go.

 

IP cameras have some advantages like internal motion detection, compression, etc, but generally you get a lot less for your money and with such a budget, I would go for analog cameras:

 

1) Your PC may in fact do if you are willing to tolerate lower framerate.

2) Get a DVR card, these guys sell them cheap ($70 without audio, $130 with): [mod edit: store link removed]

3) Install Ubuntu and ZoneMinder or Motion: http://www.lavrsen.dk/foswiki/bin/view/Motion/MotionGuide

4) Get some cheap cameras, again [mod edit: store link removed] have them as cheap as $50 for surprisingly comparable video quality to IP cameras costing $500 or more!

 

Recommended DVR Cards:

1) With audio: [mod edit: store link removed]

2) Without audio: [mod edit: store link removed]

 

Recommended Cameras:

1) Wide Angle: [mod edit: store link removed]

2) Variable Zoom: [mod edit: store link removed]

 

You can probably get away using open source software, but shameless plug: we also carry commercial software compatible with all of the above and licensing is as little as $50 per channel. Check out our live demo on http://xanview.co.uk

[tomcctv 190]

you have got to be joking. $8.000 for a 16 way hybrid. and then camera licence on top. support $50 month.

 

sorry you say on your web geo/aver dont even come close to yours. you are going to have to explain why for that amount of money for your own brand hybrid. whos ip cameras do you support.

[xanview 0]

you have got to be joking. $8.000 for a 16 way hybrid. and then camera licence on top. support $50 month.

 

sorry you say on your web geo/aver dont even come close to yours. you are going to have to explain why for that amount of money for your own brand hybrid. whos ip cameras do you support.

 

You misunderstood. If you are doing it DIY, it is $50 per camera in total and we will advice you what hardware to use and how to connect everything.

 

Edit:

 

The figure for a 16 channel DVR (200fps) is £1699.00 or around $2,800 at the current conversion rate. The Corporate 32 channel DVR (320fps) is £3499.00 or around $5,800 - on second look, not sure where you got the $8,000 figure - it is quite a fair bit lower at the current exchange rate.

 

For this, you get:

 

1) Server grade hardware,

2) All software and video compression licensing fees

3) Training CCTV operators and staff, both on site and unlimited phone/email support

4) Warranty on all parts and labour - if a fault occurs, we normally have an engineer on site within hours to fix the problem

 

We support any analog camera, including PelcoD/P PTZ cameras and any IP camera that has MJPEG, MPEG4 or H264 output. We are a small company so we haven't tested a wide range of IP cameras, but we tested several Panasonic, Axis, Y-Cam, Sony and others including no brand IP cameras. If support isn't available, we generally develop support within several days (provided it isn't some exotic ActiveX camera) - all software is developed in house.

 

Also, the monthly fee is optional, you are more than welcome to use dyndns or similar and a self signed SSL certificate. If you want to access the DVR through our website on http://xanview.co.uk and are interested in the additional features, then support packages range at £5 (around $ per month.

[mike_va 0]

The issue with Vitamin D may be the Dlink, I've got a number of cameras on mine (Axis) and has never missed once.

[mike_va 0]

If you really don't want to use Vitamin D you could also check out Blue Iris which is pretty easy to setup and Milestone has a free 8 ch NVR program.

[mike_va 0]

On hardware I bought a ZT systems quad core 3GHz for $500 on sale at Costco. If you watch the sales on this brand they have some very good deals. This thing flies, compared to the other computers in the house. The other thing is light, if you can do motion lights you will have much better luck with good pics. Vivotek specs don't look that great, so I've never purchased them. Make sure you understand lux ratings, for IP cams you need to know the shutter speed sometimes this is at 1/6s which is not that useful. I've got some great cams around the house and it takes a lot of playing around to get good night pics, flood lights make your life much easier.

[Bunited2 0]

I think that since the culprits are local (youths?) that IP cameras are overkill, the video only needs to record probably recognized 'persons of interest' like an incident recorded in a company, if the recording is at least fair to recognize who it is then that's good enough for law enforcement to press charges.

I would go with a simple capture card like from say 'avermedia' with free software embedded. I really do not see a need to view from the outside world, but with comcast or AT&T obtain a static IP address and do port forwarding.

 

As far as the original list, I would start with motion detectors (not specific motion detector lighting) and have the motion detectors trigger x-10 lighting controls to turn on porch, garage, patio lights, etc.

 

Good Luck

PS this is a great forum, just got on today.

[albert 0]

Hi,

 

Here is the cheap solution & reliable solution for you to consider.

You can buy the ip camera with ftp feature ready.

go [mod edit - no advertising] to subscribe the one year online storage for your camera images at their data center.

by this way, you can save the money for the storage and no maintenance for it.

[mod edit - no advertising] has a very good serach & playback program for you to playback your recorded images.

You can view it via remote pc, smart phone or ipad.

mobile version is also available. just type [mod edit - no advertising] and you will be able to see the last 5 minutes recorded images almost instantly.

 

Cheap & smart solution

 

cheers