Specifying a UPS

[chewingyu 0]

CCTV Australia (pretty odd to call u that. any name I could use?),

 

You are right in that I am not the design engineer. I am the user who is writing the specs to get contractors to install the UPSs' for me. Actually, I am not only installing UPSs but doing a conversion from analog to digital recording. I had started another thread on this.

 

So, how many DVRs to a UPS is really up to me and the deciding factors would be budget, space availability and what level of caution I want to take, meaning how many eggs (DVRs) do I want to put in how many baskets (UPSs). A judgement call really. I am inclined to perhaps have 10 DVRs to a UPS. So, in my set up, I would need 4 UPSs.

[cctv_down_under 0]

That is correct, but makes sure your UPS is capable of shutting down all 4 machines

[chewingyu 0]

That is correct, but makes sure your UPS is capable of shutting down all 4 machines

 

You mean all 33 machines?

[rory 0]

i imagine they have a generator with that many systems, and then just have to make sure the batteries last long enough until the generator kicks in ..

[chewingyu 0]

Oh, no my 33 DVRs, 33 monitors, 500 cameras are not relying on own generator. Rather we are taking from the main power supply from our national powergrid.

[cctv_down_under 0]

Yes but you were talking about 4 dvr's on each UPS, honestly if it were me I would sue one UPS in a rack mount and add rack batteries, it will cover all 6 power issues and should shut down all machines

[dusan 0]

hi

get a tower 16 kw apc symmetra with a nic card and temperature and humidity monitoring option

and if you need extra run time you need extra battery

expansion tower LX symmetra

 

http://www.apc.com/products/family/index.cfm?id=180

 

have one and it works fine

 

do not get a rack mount in this size ,tower is like a rack

better bigger parts

 

if you have many small units than you have problem to update battery all the time , get one redandant comercial unit for system

 

dusan

Edited July 15, 2005 by Guest

[chewingyu 0]

I was told that if I want the feature where a signal is sent by the UPS to the DVR for auto shutdown, then I will need a 1-to-1 UPS-DVR hook up. That means I cannot do a 1 UPS to 4 DVRs.

 

Is this true?

[rory 0]

Im sure you could always use a relay to do this, if they only support 1 DVR shutdown...?? Maybe wait until Data or Dusan replies ...

[cctv_down_under 0]

Its nothing to do with a relay, it has to do with he connection to XP to shut down the machine...what you need is a rackmount ups controller that speaks to each device over etehernet, this way all devices shut down on a command signal... and yes the previous sposter is right, the batteries that connect to it to give you extra time do not have to be rack mounted as basicaly they are huge car batteries (well not really) so you get more value out of tower connectors, mind you rackmounted batteries look much nicer, you could get a tower UPS as well if you use tower batteries but make sure it can shut down each machine

[dusan 0]

hi

dvr's = what model , how do they do safe shutdown serial or ethernet or usb or what , or do not need safe shutdown , just turn power off and linux cleen fs at boot time ?

 

if its serial rs232 than you need apc rs232 serial 8 port box for each

set of 8 dvr's , etc

 

dvr's will have a client ups shutdown protocol ,what is it ?

 

you need to provide more data on dvr's

 

if dvr's are pc that run xp , than you ok , apc provide free shutdown

software that will work on ethernet network and you can shutdown

all your 253 network computer's on you subnet

 

what is your bugget for ups ~$18k ? no so get a used one for ~$8k

 

you need to multiply a ~2 x more battery power run time than you need , as battery age you loose ~50% cap so 2x will give you ~5 years of battery use , if not you get ~2 years

and this is on real ups not on thinker toy , toy you fix in ~2 years if you lucky or put in dupster

 

dusan

Edited July 15, 2005 by Guest

[chewingyu 0]

Currently, I only have one model DVR i.e. Netsafe- DVR1016 and I have 9 of them. But I am going to convert 24 other VCR/Mux into DVRs. So, I do not know what brand/model I will be installing until after a tender exercise.

 

The Netsafe DVRs run on Win2K. I have a feeling the new ones that I will install will either be the same or on WinXP.

[dusan 0]

Currently, I only have one model DVR i.e. Netsafe- DVR1016 and I have 9 of them. But I am going to convert 24 other VCR/Mux into DVRs. So, I do not know what brand/model I will be installing until after a tender exercise.

 

The Netsafe DVRs run on Win2K. I have a feeling the new ones that I will install will either be the same or on WinXP.

 

w2k is same software as xp so apc shutdown will work fine

 

dusan

[joe4 0]

Hmm, why not a Deisel Generator?

 

What did it cost and how large was it, voltage wise ..?

 

I have a client that might be interested .. for real ..

also does it have voltage regulation built in, or can order one with that ..?

 

It would be to power a whole house for example, though they have a generator but looking for some power protection as well, so voltage regulation is a requirement.

 

thanks

 

Rory

 

Natural gas generators are nice because you do not have to worry about onsite storage. The gas supplies work without power.

[chewingyu 0]

So, what is the story now? Can I have 1 UPS to a few DVRs and still be able to send signals to the DVRs for auto shutdowns? Or this is only possible with a 1-to-1 set up?

[chewingyu 0]

One of my vendors has offered a single UPS - Alberex - to protect a bunch of Magic Radar DVRs. He claims that the Magic Radar has this auto log off feature to protect the hard disk. Is this true? I can't even find any website that features Magic Radar.

[rory 0]

You need Automatic Voltage Regulation to protect the hard drive, a UPS alone will not do that. You can buy UPS's now with both, look for AVR on a UPS for that feature. APC and even Belkin have that now at a low cost.

 

DVR software will not protect your hard drive.

 

I dont know of that UPS but if you can post a link we can take a look at it.

 

thanks

Rory

[chewingyu 0]

I believe the protection you are referring to is when there is a blackout or some power surge, the AVR will protect it,right?

 

I was really concerned with the crashing of the hard disk due to sudden power off to the DVR (Just like with our PCs we are advised to log off properly than to just flick the switch to turn it off)

 

I suppose both factors are important to protect the DVR, yes? So, I will take note of the AVR before the purchase but what about the other concern of mine?

[rory 0]

A UPS is simply software file protection if anything. Personally I use them both for DVRs now, all in ones UPS/AVR, well for PC DVRs at least, but for my own PC, id take a VR over a UPS anyday ... i can afford a little corrruption of the windows OS but I cant loose my Hard drive completely ..

 

The AVR protects the HDD against failure. Failure can arrise from Brownouts, Power Dips, Spikes, Heavy Surges, and alot of things, which a UPS or Surge Protector cannot assist with.

 

Rory

[chewingyu 0]

So, you are advising that I dump the UPS idea and fix in the AVR?

Two questions then:

 

Can I install the AVR at a later date? I mean, do the retrofitting later?

 

Must I fix 1 AVR to 1 DVR?

[rory 0]

you can buy the UPS with AVR built in now ..

 

Rory

[chewingyu 0]

Well, the vendor is offering the APC UPS. I think APC is a pretty reputable brand? It should have built in AVR?

[rory 0]

APC is a great product, just double check as they also sell just UPS' and just Voltage Regualtors, as well as UPS's with VR built in. Get an exact model number if you are in doubt,, but basically check to see if it has AVR then it has Voltage Regulation, generally.

 

Triplite is also very good, ive had my triplite voltage regualtor since 1996!

But they are normally more expensive than APC which is one major reason i spec APC now.

 

rory

[chewingyu 0]

Okay, thanks Rory.

You're da man! Don't really know what CCTVKing was rambling about but I appreciate you.

[rory 0]

no problem , if you get a model number and are unsure, post it here and ill take a quick look to make sure it has both UPS and AVR.

 

Rory