Mobile DVR Recommendation

[irwinm 0]

Hi All,

 

First post so please be gentle

 

Does anyone have any recommendations for 4ch Mobile DVR for use in a bus? I would like GPS and 3G functionality also.

 

Thanks in advance

MIke

[need2shave 0]

I've used SerVision's mobile dvrs quite extensively - both the old IVG series and now the MVG. These are remotely viewable via mobile broadband cards (I use Verizon). I'm very pleased with the performance. If you have specific questions that you'd like answered, please just let me know.

[irwinm 0]

Thanks for your prompt reply! I have never heard of Servision bearing in mind I am based in Ireland and this is my first mobile DVR job. I had a quick look on the Servision site and it looks very good maybe too good for what I need...I will give you a bit more info see what you think.

This man has around 5-10 buses quite a small operator and thus does not want to spend to much. All he has said in terms of spec to me is that he was interested in GPS and be able to watch live video from the buses on his home computer.

 

So what do you recommend? Again thanks in advance

[tomcctv 190]

Thanks for your prompt reply! I have never heard of Servision bearing in mind I am based in Ireland and this is my first mobile DVR job. I had a quick look on the Servision site and it looks very good maybe too good for what I need...I will give you a bit more info see what you think.

This man has around 5-10 buses quite a small operator and thus does not want to spend to much. All he has said in terms of spec to me is that he was interested in GPS and be able to watch live video from the buses on his home computer.

 

So what do you recommend? Again thanks in advance

 

 

 

not a bad little unit this one. http://www.aver.com/Surveillance/Product/Detail.aspx?id=239

[need2shave 0]

I've only used the SerVision models so I can't comment on others. I know the SerVision will provide gps and allow remote view in real-time. They take a usb device not a gsm sim card.

 

For those that have used both the usb broadband cards and gsm based mobile dvrs - have you noticed a difference in the streaming capability? Do the gsm models stream video as well as the broadband devices?

[dima.kravtsov 0]

not a bad little unit this one. http://www.aver.com/Surveillance/Product/Detail.aspx?id=239

 

Not impressive at all:

 

* Using regular HDD at mobile system is a way to problems. Only storage with non-moving-parts are suitable for mobile applications

* Aver is using regular PC platform for its embedded mobile DVR, while truly mobile DVR should be based on cost effective DSP based chipset

* It just looks quite ugly, IMHO

 

What is the price for this unit? I hardly believe it can beat CVG-M even at price.

[tomcctv 190]

It just looks quite ugly, IMHO

 

 

i have seen the CVG-M and one thing you dont do is buy on looks alone. but the CVG-m does look cheap . nothing fitts cant record anything as long as the avers. if we stuck that system in buses or police cars we would loose the contract. and just to point out HD mobile systems have been around much much longer than sd systems. so i cant see how you can say HD systems are a no no.

 

the CVG-M taken from there own website .......... looks like it has been run over by a bus

 

 

 

 

 

the avers. if i was buying by looks ........ mmmmmmmmmmm

 

[dima.kravtsov 0]

1. CVG-M is almost twice smaller than Aver. If you want to compare them by look, please, provide pictures at the same size factor.

2. Mobile DVR is not too much time are available on the market, so telling, that HD systems are presented longer at mobile DVR market is not very correct. Any IT specialist will tell you, that any DVR with moving parts like HDD or active cooling systems are not that suitable for vibrations and shocks that are definitely will be experienced at mobile applications.

3. As far as I understand, Aver Mobile DVR doesn't has build-in cellular modem and uses USB to connect cellular interface... well, from my experience, USB is not suitable for mobile applications and you should think about additional hadrware and enforcement to ensure USB will not detach during shocks and vibrations.

4. CVG-M looks very sexy! There are plenty of pictures of them available from different customers. Try to find such system and hold it at hand and you will understand. Moreover, we all know it well, how the device looks like is very much depends *who* and *how* has made those snapshoots. I can tell, that SerVision's folks more engineers, than photographaers (congratulations to Aver!)

[dima.kravtsov 0]

Another issues is temperature range...

 

HDD will never can work under minus temperatures. Moreover, if temperature will rise more than 40C the disk timelife will drop exponentilally...

 

Think about it as well...

 

If Aver will use SSD disks, it will solve the problem, but will *REALLY* increase the price for the final solution. Moreover, I don't know which interface Aver is using, but I suppose it IDE and all IDE SSD disks are quite slow for linear reading and writing...

[tomcctv 190]

Another issues is temperature range...

 

HDD will never can work under minus temperatures. Moreover, if temperature will rise more than 40C the disk timelife will drop exponentilally...

 

Think about it as well...

 

If Aver will use SSD disks, it will solve the problem, but will *REALLY* increase the price for the final solution. Moreover, I don't know which interface Aver is using, but I suppose it IDE and all IDE SSD disks are quite slow for linear reading and writing...

 

 

can i just point something out . the CVG-M is on two cameras. now you say HD sould not be used. look at video . the unit with the same spec as avers oh and look plug in mobile interface mmmmmm you say should not be used. standard hard drives you also say cant be used oh and can only be viewed on there software and costs alot more that avers. the CVG-M is nothing like the avers buy compair with the MVG-400. which is the same in components. http://www.live-view.co.uk/vehicle.php

[need2shave 0]

Dima,

 

I currently use the MVG and am happy with the performance although I don't use it while a vehicle is mobile. I'm interested in learning more about the CVG-M, can you send me prices? Also, how does the video compare when streaming between GMS and the broadband cards? I've heard the broadband cards function better...have you found this to be true?

[dima.kravtsov 0]

can i just point something out . the CVG-M is on two cameras. now you say HD sould not be used. look at video . the unit with the same spec as avers oh and look plug in mobile interface mmmmmm you say should not be used. standard hard drives you also say cant be used oh and can only be viewed on there software and costs alot more that avers. the CVG-M is nothing like the avers buy compair with the MVG-400. which is the same in components. http://www.live-view.co.uk/vehicle.php

 

Agreed! Aver one should be compared with MVG, but not with CVG-M. CVG-M was adviced earlier as the cheaper and more robust system instead of MVG. Now, regarding MVG itself: SerVison is producing mobile DVRs for 9 years already. The first one was IVG (as was mentioned by need2shave) from which it was learned a *lot* about temperature, vibration, shocks, HDD, connectors and lot other issues that mobile requires. The MVG uses non-regular HDD, but special version 24/7 from Hitachi with enhanced temperature and vibration range, but even this is not enought to make mobile system. The HDD is used only for footage and activated only occasionally, when recording cache is full and fotage should be transfered from flash buffer to HDD. Even before this operation we checks vibration and if it more than treshhold, then HDD is not activated and we waiting for more gentle conditions.

 

Due to all those "tricks", MVG has received European certification EN-50155 for shocks and vibration for railway applications. But, IMHO, this is not enough and truly soild-state solutions must be used! But this is already another story

 

You may ask, where from all those details... well... I was VP R&D since 2002 at SerVision and left the company at 2009 to be entrepreneur... still, I have good deep connections there and help SerVision with their developments etc.

 

Edited May 31, 2011 by Guest

[dima.kravtsov 0]

Dima,

 

I currently use the MVG and am happy with the performance although I don't use it while a vehicle is mobile. I'm interested in learning more about the CVG-M, can you send me prices? Also, how does the video compare when streaming between GMS and the broadband cards? I've heard the broadband cards function better...have you found this to be true?

 

I have sent PM

[dima.kravtsov 0]

Dima,

 

I currently use the MVG and am happy with the performance although I don't use it while a vehicle is mobile. I'm interested in learning more about the CVG-M, can you send me prices? Also, how does the video compare when streaming between GMS and the broadband cards? I've heard the broadband cards function better...have you found this to be true?

 

Definitely, GSM connectivity provides quite harsh conditionals for live video. EDGE can provide enough uplink for 2 QVGA streams at quite low FPS. In case of UMTS the situation is better, but still, uplink is not enough for 4 channels to be transmitted at live at adequate FPS (more than 10). HSUPA can be definitely the best option for mobile system like MVG when all 4 channels should be accessible "in live".

 

Broadband from the beginning can provide decent conditions for smooth video streaming. Along with SerVision's patented video streaming and compression methods can give very good results. As a standart, SerVision uses QVGA resolution in color at 10 FPS - all this requires 96 kilobit-per-second per channel....

[tomcctv 190]

2. Mobile DVR is not too much time are available on the market, so telling, that HD systems are presented longer at mobile DVR market is not very correct. Any IT specialist will tell you, that any DVR with moving parts like HDD or active cooling systems are not that suitable for vibrations and shocks that are definitely will be experienced at mobile applications.

 

well i think around 20 years with video tape units (vcl) and around 10 years for H/drive units is a long time.

 

to be honest with you. i think you would have been better joining the forum and letting people know about your products. and not compaire yours with avermedia a system you know nothing about. aver is onto its 8th year and 3rd model all with H/drive units 1000s sold around the world.

 

take a look at some of the posts on here guys have even used standard aver eb 4 way units as mobile dvrs with no problems.

so mobile dvr with H/drives dont have a problem. infact all your products except 1 has H/drive storage

[thewireguys 3]

Sorry I disagree on the SSD vs HD debate. I work with a company that installs mobile DVRs in police cars. The DVRs all came with SSDs and they all failed with in a month or two. They switched all SSDs to HDs and have not had problem since. Also they make HD that are designed for use in vehicle and high temp applications since SSDs are not good for constant writing.

 

http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_ee25_2.pdf

[dima.kravtsov 0]

take a look at some of the posts on here guys have even used standard aver eb 4 way units as mobile dvrs with no problems.

so mobile dvr with H/drives dont have a problem. infact all your products except 1 has H/drive storage

 

I agree, that HDD can work within mobile DVR continuously for quite long period (2 years and more) without problems, but such setups vary from project to project due to different environmental conditions and should be considered with great caution when considering them as basis for new project.

 

Unfortunately, since SSD had got mass availability HDD was the only solution and any mobile DVR manufacturers used various technologies to reduce risks of HDD failure due to shocks, vibrations and temperature... SerVision is not an exception. There are 3 generations of SerVision's mobile DVR that used HDD as a storage medium and there are statistics already, that can tell where is safe enough using HDD and where such setup can lead to continuous problems.

[dima.kravtsov 0]

Sorry I disagree on the SSD vs HD debate. I work with a company that installs mobile DVRs in police cars. The DVRs all came with SSDs and they all failed with in a month or two. They switched all SSDs to HDs and have not had problem since. Also they make HD that are designed for use in vehicle and high temp applications since SSDs are not good for constant writing.

 

There are plenty of SSD disks available that definitely cannot be used for any sort of applications where big amount of data should be written constantly, like DVR solutions. Most of them are SSD of first generations or low-cost SSD on buggy controllers. This is very good that you revealed the problematic SSD disks at the beginning, but HDD can make more problems, when giving you for first year sense of safety and stability and starting make problems in year or more.

 

As I told, every project should be considered with great care and any *GOOD* mobile DVR (IMHO), should be able to use SSD along with HDD. HDD has its advantages, exactly as SDD has. In order to reveal those advantages DVR should know how properly work with suitable media and don't just simply *write*.

 

p.s. Thanks for link to Seagate disk! It looks interesting! But for low temperature there is other problem - condensation, that brings water inside the system and such condensation inside HDD can kill the disk. I hope Seagate engineers has thought about it as well.

[tomcctv 190]

I agree, that HDD can work within mobile DVR continuously for quite long period (2 years and more) without problems

 

 

had them run even longer. now we cant tell if SSD will last as long because it has not been around that long in a size that can be used for large recordings.

 

p.s. Thanks for link to Seagate disk! It looks interesting! But for low temperature there is other problem - condensation, that brings water inside the system and such condensation inside HDD can kill the disk. I hope Seagate engineers has thought about it as well.

 

 

another insult to another company. i know you want to push your product but all you are doing now is making your company look stupid. if all you can do is insult other companies. what that does is make your company look desperate

[dima.kravtsov 0]

another insult to another company. i know you want to push your product but all you are doing now is making your company look stupid. if all you can do is insult other companies. what that does is make your company look desperate

 

Insult? Where did you saw insult, my friend? It was quite calm conversation about mobile DVR in general, where different opinions were presented and I disclosed my experience as engineer with 8 years of experience in a DVR field. Moreover, I don't work for SerVision for almost 3 years. Yes, I do sales and projects but range products I sell quite wide and SerVision is not the only one I have in my portfolio.

 

My way to go, is presenting upon the customer all technical options and problems, that can arise during the project lifetime and don't just rely on: "I have them run much longer..."! It can run, and it cannot! I don't rely on "chance", but on deep understanding what are requirements from all aspects. So far, proper SSD solves most of the problems in mobile DVR field. Be wise, think wider...

[thewireguys 3]

@dima.kravtsov So what SSD's do they use?

[dima.kravtsov 0]

@dima.kravtsov So what SSD's do they use?

 

CVG-M uses microSD cards, but not SATA SSD. In my projects I recommend to my customers SDHX or SDXC class 6 or 10.

 

Rearding MVG, I don't know what SSD disks SerVision uses (if use at all), but I have deal with not-well-known company Memoright, that has plenty of different SSD disks for all type of applications. I prefer STM-25 or FTM-25 models. They use the latest Inginix controller, which is one of the most important parts of SSD disks today. And peformance and durability very much depends on this part.

 

Previously, I had experience with Intel X25-V and X25-M and its OEM clones from Kingston and some other models. What can I tell, definitely, X25-V is great one for DVR solutions. It has write speed greater than X25-M, but lesser performance in read. Bit for DVR this is exactly what needed... good write and decent read (under "decent" I mean SSD ranks, 80-90 Mb/sec). Moreover, X25-V has very good price / per megabyte in comparision with other SSD.

 

Another tip for SSD users, is switch-off auto defragmentation which is totally useless and even can harm your disk and also when preparing the system, *always* leave 10-20% of SSD disk unformatted and untouched (during partitioning). This is necessary for longer SSD life due to incompatibility between common sector size for file system and internal flash block size.

[tomcctv 190]

SDHX or SDXC class 6 or 10.

 

 

that is a problem my customers would not like $250 / $300 for 64GB card.

 

we have a customers with 3 tour buses that go from England to south Spain. for him to swap from avers to yours (avers will record all there and back on 1TB) 16 x 64gb = 1TB 16 x $250 = $4000 x 3 = $12.000.

 

i dont think we need to call NASA to see if we have a problem. H/drive is best

[dima.kravtsov 0]

we have a customers with 3 tour buses that go from England to south Spain. for him to swap from avers to yours (avers will record all there and back on 1TB)

 

Interesting!

 

Tour from England to south Spain. It would definitely kill my ass OK, now lets see the details:

 

1. How long does it takes the whole tour there and back?

2. How many channels every bus is recording?

3. What framerate and what resolution is needed for the recording?

4. What exactly the DVR is recording:

a. Passengers

b. Bus driver

c. The street before or behind the bus

 

I need this info in order to calculate how much disk space is needed if SerVision's DVR would be used.

 

One of the main advantages of SerVision's technology is video compression. It's based on MPEG4, but little altered to optimize it for narrowband. Definitely, SerVision's video compression is not competitor for VC1, H.264 or WebM (VP- at high bitrates and high resolutions, but so far, QVGA and VGA performance at decent framerates up to 15 FPS (well, who needs more at security?) beats those codecs. This is why even on this forum SerVision's products has name as the best one for live video transmission over cellular networks and other narrowband networks.

 

Now, it's really interesting to calculate how much would disk space would SerVision's DVR use. So, your answers are needed.

 

This also would be really interesting to see some footage from those buses. I can provide footage from SerVision one and we can compare.

 

Regards,

 

Dima

[dima.kravtsov 0]

Just recommend a new Mobile DVR to you!

 

Please, give us more info "from the field" about your DVRs? What advantages you see? Have you operated/build projects with them? What are advantages and disadvantages?

 

Dima