Only need capturing no live view. Do I need SW then?

[junkjunk13 0]

Hello,

 

I am thinking about purchasing some cameras.

At this moment I am thinking of 2 camera solutions:

- 2x AXIS 1346-E + 1x AXIS 1347-E

- or 3x Mobotix M12

 

I already have...

- a dedicated HP V1905 10GB-PoE switch

- a dedicated APC 1000VA SmartUPS

- a dedicated Synology 1511+ NAS with 5 disks

... for my videosurveillance solution.

 

I don't intend to do live viewing and I don't need it.

I am thinking about setting up motion triggering within the camera's and let them stream (ftp or http or whatever ) to my NAS when there is motion.

I assume this is possible with both camera brands.

I also assume whenever a trigger occurs the cameras will create a new folder and/or file(s) on the NAS that contains, for Mobotix MxPeg and for Axis MJpeg, files.

I also assume the names of these files will contain date and time information.

So I should be able to easily and quickly access those files to look at the events.

 

This is for a home video surveillance solution in a quiet (not much traffic) neighborhood, so I should not have too much triggers and data when scrolling through the captures.

 

My question is would I still need some videosurveillance software in this case... I am guessing not right?

When I still need software I need to put an extra PC to run the software on or use the videosurveillance soft from the Synology.

[tomcctv 190]

hi. you are spending alot on your system as in camera types. i would not just use the ftp http functions to nas. if more than one camera is activated then you will be blocking each camera while the other is sending data. you do need software as well and also i would have live viewing. (you need to know your system is working)

[Harrar 0]

Can't speak for the Axis but for the Mobotix, you don't need any additional software for basic recording and playback of events. Depending on how long you need to retain recordings, you may be able to eliminate the NAS and record to the camera's internal SD card if you order the M model.

 

For the NAS, you will need to set up a share for the cameras to record to. Best to set a folder for each camera to make life easier. Configure the camera's file storage settings with NAS address, share, user/password, reboot and you're set. Set up your Video Motion windows and enable record and all data is sent to your NAS.

 

Viewing recordings is simple. Just call up the camera with your browser, select Event Player and you can view events from the ring buffer, SD card (if installed) or the NAS. To get more sophisticated, you can get MxEasy or MxControlCenter software from Mobotix for free and be able to PTZ the recorded events and do post-processing.

[junkjunk13 0]

hi. you are spending alot on your system as in camera types. i would not just use the ftp http functions to nas. if more than one camera is activated then you will be blocking each camera while the other is sending data. you do need software as well and also i would have live viewing. (you need to know your system is working)

 

 

Howso would I be blocking my other cams?

 

You can have multiple FTP connections to your NAS. I have a gigabit router and dual gigabit NAS and can use Link Aggregation for even more bandwith throughput. Isn't that enought bandwith and connections?

 

 

Can't speak for the Axis but for the Mobotix, you don't need any additional software for basic recording and playback of events. Depending on how long you need to retain recordings, you may be able to eliminate the NAS and record to the camera's internal SD card if you order the M model.

 

For the NAS, you will need to set up a share for the cameras to record to. Best to set a folder for each camera to make life easier. Configure the camera's file storage settings with NAS address, share, user/password, reboot and you're set. Set up your Video Motion windows and enable record and all data is sent to your NAS.

 

Viewing recordings is simple. Just call up the camera with your browser, select Event Player and you can view events from the ring buffer, SD card (if installed) or the NAS. To get more sophisticated, you can get MxEasy or MxControlCenter software from Mobotix for free and be able to PTZ the recorded events and do post-processing.

 

Thanks for the tip of making multiple shares for each cam.

And yes the integrated solution of Mobotix is one of the reasons why I would go for them.

Although I hear a lot of cons/pro for the Mobotix concept and picture quality. I am expecting a demo Mobotix cam soon. If it passes my picture quality tests (both during day and night) I think I will go for Mobotix though...

[Soundy 1]

Wow, so convoluted...

 

Look, as long as the cameras are on the NAS's supported list, it should work fine (not sure what all this is about "blocking"??). This is probably extreme overkill, though: bandwidth really is not that great - you'd be looking at MAYBE 30-40Mbit if the cameras were streaming full-res, full-framerate, constantly. As it is, on motion-only record, bandwidth needed should be minimal, and if there's not much traffic, as long as you configure motion detection well to avoid things like tree branches in the wind setting it off, you should get MONTHS of storage out of a couple terabytes.

 

And yes, it will be capable of live viewing, whether you want it or not.

[junkjunk13 0]

Wow, so convoluted...

 

I just learned a new word : convuluted = complicated

 

Look, as long as the cameras are on the NAS's supported list, it should work fine (not sure what all this is about "blocking"??).

 

Really... those camera's are capable of streaming to an FTP server.

So even if they are not supported by the NAS (which they are) it should be possible as long as the NAS supports the connection (FTP/HTTP, SMB/NFS).

 

This is probably extreme overkill, though: bandwidth really is not that great - you'd be looking at MAYBE 30-40Mbit if the cameras were streaming full-res, full-framerate, constantly. As it is, on motion-only record, bandwidth needed should be minimal, and if there's not much traffic, as long as you configure motion detection well to avoid things like tree branches in the wind setting it off, you should get MONTHS of storage out of a couple terabytes.

Not so sure about that (see picture below)

 

As you can see if the 3 cams record simultaniously at only 12fps at full resolution in MJPEG (I don't want H.264 or more then 10% compression):

- I have a bandwith requirement of 136MBit which is too much for a non-gigabit router

- I require 2,4 TB for 7 days of recording when only 10% of motion is detected on the 3 cams.

(I know the picture shows 11,5 but that is for both continious and event recording)

 

Anyway 7 days is more then enough indeed and Gbit will do the trick.

And if I go to Mobotix I win on both disk capacity and bandwidth because of the use of MxPeg without losing on picture quality because of compression. Off course I might lose on picture quality because of the lens differences between mobotix and axis. At this moment from what I read and see the Axis has still better picture (at higher cost off course). But that is why I am going to test the mobotix first. If the quality is satisfying for my needs I indeed see no reason to go to Axis.

 

And yes, it will be capable of live viewing, whether you want it or not.

Yes the Mobotix off course they are able to do live viewing because of their special concept.

But even with the AXIS live viewing is indeed possible from any browser directly to the cam but that is not linked to a video-server (PC with video recording soft on it or NAS with video recording soft on it like the synology with video station).

I assume that is what you mean.

 

Anyway I think my question is answered... and I am very happy with the answer... so thank you everyone.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Guest

[Soundy 1]

Look, as long as the cameras are on the NAS's supported list, it should work fine (not sure what all this is about "blocking"??).

 

Really... those camera's are capable of streaming to an FTP server.

So even if they are not supported by the NAS (which they are) it should be possible as long as the NAS supports the connection (FTP/HTTP, SMB/NFS).

They should... but that seems overly complex.

 

Just one potential issue I see with using ftp or smb, is that each brand of camera will write in its own format - not even file format so much as NAMING format and storage folder structure. For example, one might use a year\month\day\time.avi structure, another might go year-month-day\time.mjp format. Trying to coordinate those for playback would be a PITA. Heck, I've done it with a single IQ camera to an FTP server, and searching the video afterward is nothing but a hassle.

 

Use the built-in NVR functionality that's a feature of the Synology - it will be easier to configure and overall more effective. It also gives you the ability to view and search all cameras, live or recorded, in a single browser interface. It may not sound like a big deal up front, but the first time you watch a subject move from one camera to the next on a split-screen display, or search for specific events, you'll realize how convenient it will be.

[junkjunk13 0]

Use the built-in NVR functionality that's a feature of the Synology - it will be easier to configure and overall more effective. It also gives you the ability to view and search all cameras, live or recorded, in a single browser interface. It may not sound like a big deal up front, but the first time you watch a subject move from one camera to the next on a split-screen display, or search for specific events, you'll realize how convenient it will be.

 

Yes I was thinking about using the build in video surveillance software of the synology until I read on this forum that:

1. the synology soft will reformat the stream (so loosing quality)

2. the synology soft is not able to record at the maximum resolution of the cam

[Soundy 1]

That's pretty vague - "reformat" to what? What resolution DOES it support, relative to the cameras? Losses may not be significant. Either way, if you don't already have the NAS, try looking at a different model... or even a different brand. QNAP have some nice NAS/NVR units as well - www.qnap.com or www.qnapsecurity.com. They're in the same price range.

 

Some sacrifice may be necessary, because honestly, if you're doing all your recording as FTP or SMB streams, you have no video management, and using the footage later will be come extremely unwieldy.

[thewireguys 3]

Mobotix is designed to do this and they have free VMS software. Axis can write to folders but I think you would get sick of digging though folders to view video.

 

FYI Mobotix can record to any network share. It does not care as long as it can write fast enough.

 

If your putting the cameras outside you WILL have a lot of motion events. Remember both (Axis and Mobotix) cameras do pixel based motion detection so ANYTHING that is motion will be recorded. Rain, snow, trees, dogs, spiders.... etc

 

Personally I like Mobotix's motion detection better then Axis's.

 

If you want a way simpler solution I would look at VideoIQ. All recording is stored in the cameras and they have intelligent video that can detect people cars and boats. You would NOT need a computer or NAS running all the time. Only to view recorded video.

 

VideoIQ demo video

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1RdBtHcaGw&feature=player_embedded

[junkjunk13 0]

That's pretty vague - "reformat" to what? What resolution DOES it support, relative to the cameras? Losses may not be significant.

 

As mentioned here in synology surveillance station their compatibility list the max resolution is 1080P (1920x1080): http://www.synology.com/support/camera.php?lang=enu&brand_id=17

See also picture below:

 

 

Either way, if you don't already have the NAS, try looking at a different model... or even a different brand. QNAP have some nice NAS/NVR units as well - http://www.qnap.com or http://www.qnapsecurity.com. They're in the same price range.

 

Some sacrifice may be necessary, because honestly, if you're doing all your recording as FTP or SMB streams, you have no video management, and using the footage later will be come extremely unwieldy.

 

The qnap are not at all in the same price range... they are almost double the price of the synology.

- The Synology 1511+ 4 pack video licences : 165 + 690 = 855 euros

- The Qnap VS4008 Pro: 1450 euros

 

And I already have the Synology so I would only have to purchase the licences = 165 euros versus 1450 euros !!!

Anyway when I go to Mobotix I won't need that as mobotix has build in video management...

 

Hey but do I understand your point here and I have to agree that it would be great to have some more video mgt as well...

However for 1200 euros extra I would prefer to buy some better cams or an extra cam or maybe some IR illuminators.

Sorry I am just a 'poor' home user with 'limited' budget of around 5000 euros.

 

If you want a way simpler solution I would look at VideoIQ. All recording is stored in the cameras and they have intelligent video that can detect people cars and boats. You would NOT need a computer or NAS running all the time. Only to view recorded video.

 

VideoIQ demo video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1RdBtHcaGw&feature=player_embedded

 

Are you talking about the iCVR HD cameras:

http://www.videoiq.com/resources/C-%20VIQ_iCVR_HD_camera_brochure.pdf

This one looks the most interesting one to me:

-> VIQ-HD-CRD250-3-8 — Day/night, 500 GB hard drive, 3-8mm lens

It is around 1800 USD which is less then 1500 euros.

Let me open a new topic for that so I don't spoil this one too much: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=25665

 

And off course the best would be that the mobotix M12 will meet my resolution (ooth during day and night) expectations:

- Then I don't need extra soft as it is build in

- it uses less power then other outdoor cams

- much cheaper then axis

However I am afraid from what I have seen so far that Mobotix won't deliver its resolution.

I really want to be able to identify people and cars(brand/model and licence plates... although I guess for license plates I would need an extra cam lower to the survace to correctly capture those)

[junkjunk13 0]

Just received my 2 weeks demo Mobotix D12 appliance for testing.

I will start testing this weekend.

[thewireguys 3]

Just received my 2 weeks demo Mobotix D12 appliance for testing.

I will start testing this weekend.

 

 

The weekend the night is young my friend open the box and have at it

[junkjunk13 0]

OK... I have to admit I could not wait playing with the mobotix d12

I installed it last night and have been playing with it for ... well at least 8 hours now

 

I will post my test results and/or pictures in the 'MegaPixel Cameras - Images and Demos' post on this forum so I can stay on topic here.

What I can say so far is that I already have 200+ movement triggers so far (mostly people and cars passing by on the road) and I have to admit now that I will need software...

 

If I would only position the camera's on my front door and back yard I wouldn't need software.

But in my situation I plan to position:

- 1 cam on my front door

- and 2 capturing each side of my driveway including part of the road so I can see who is walking/driving in our street

So for the 2 last cams I will need soft if I want to be able to manage everything.

 

The thing with Mobotix is that the soft is winthin their cams so that is great.

But so far I am not that pleased with the picture quality of the mobotix d12 but that is for another topic...