Anyone else using Dahua's DSS Software?

[rory 0]

Wondering what the licensing is like?

Also what type of application are you using it for, and whats your experiences using it.

 

For those that dont know its a management system for Dahua DVRs and other devices, you install the server on a PC and add devices, groups, users and assign them to the devices, and using the client software they login to that server PC instead and then have the device list already populated with the devices assigned to that user.

 

One thing I did notice is I can connect more than 10 times to one DVR.

Otherwise I havent tried too much with it, seems there are 2 versions also, a base and an upper, I tested the base, also its unregistered meaning its a Trial for 180 days. I installed the Upper also but its missing the devices, not sure what thats for.

 

Here are some screenshots:

 

DSS Client

 

DSS Server

 

 

 

 

And here is an image from Dahua

[SEANHAWG 1]

Hey Rory. I am glad you are reviewing it, I was curious how it was. I cant see the advantages of using DSS over PSS as I dont know a whole lot about it. Can you explain what the advantages would be?

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Wondering what the licensing is like?

Also what type of application are you using it for, and whats your experiences using it.

 

For those that dont know its a management system for Dahua DVRs and other devices, you install the server on a PC and add devices, groups, users and assign them to the devices, and using the client software they login to that server PC instead and then have the device list already populated with the devices assigned to that user.

 

One thing I did notice is I can connect more than 10 times to one DVR.

Otherwise I havent tried too much with it, seems there are 2 versions also, a base and an upper, I tested the base, also its unregistered meaning its a Trial for 180 days. I installed the Upper also but its missing the devices, not sure what thats for.

 

Here are some screenshots:

 

DSS Client

 

DSS Server

 

 

 

 

And here is an image from Dahua

 

Before we stopped dealing with Dahua we had remote control offsite monitoring centers running completely with the Dahua PSS systems - the PSS comes free with every DVR, and at one stage they had an enterprise version which we could license at Around $1000 and some fee per channel ---- I think just before we stopped dealing with them they replaced the enterprise version with the new DSS version.

 

At the time it was viewed as one of the better CMS of it's time.

[rory 0]

Advantages I can see right away:

 

-operators can be limited in that they never would know the DVR's login info as that is all created by a manager on the server and a list of assigned DVRs come up when they login with the Client software

-a manager or admin can set it up anywhere such as at a main remote location like the central office, from anywhere, and the operators can connect from anywhere also.

-operators would have restricted permissions controlled by the manager remotely

-managers can check the status of all devices

-managers can assign bandwidth per service

-managers can setup emaps remotely which are available to each remote operator

-managers setup recording on the DSS Server, eg. on Motion, Video Loss, Prerecord, etc.

-remote operators playback from the DSS Server and not the DVR

-the client GUI is much faster than the PSS gui

 

 

 

[rory 0]

Before we stopped dealing with Dahua we had remote control offsite monitoring centers running completely with the Dahua PSS systems - the PSS comes free with every DVR, and at one stage they had an enterprise version which we could license at Around $1000 and some fee per channel ---- I think just before we stopped dealing with them they replaced the enterprise version with the new DSS version.

 

At the time it was viewed as one of the better CMS of it's time.

Yes looks like they actually based PSS 4.xx off of DSS ... but DSS still has its considerable differences which is interesting .. not sure what application it would be needed for really but its fun to play with. I guess something like a national chain of stores is where it would come in handy.

 

The old PSS was called EPSS, I have download link on my site.

Although it might look a little less professional its a TINY program at only 6MB download compared to PSS 4.01 at 15MB or PSS 4.04 at 30MB, and it has a much faster GUI.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Before we stopped dealing with Dahua we had remote control offsite monitoring centers running completely with the Dahua PSS systems - the PSS comes free with every DVR, and at one stage they had an enterprise version which we could license at Around $1000 and some fee per channel ---- I think just before we stopped dealing with them they replaced the enterprise version with the new DSS version.

 

At the time it was viewed as one of the better CMS of it's time.

Yes looks like they actually based PSS 4.xx off of DSS ... but DSS still has its considerable differences which is interesting .. not sure what application it would be needed for really but its fun to play with. I guess something like a national chain of stores is where it would come in handy.

 

The old PSS was called EPSS, I have download link on my site.

Although it might look a little less professional its a TINY program at only 6MB download compared to PSS 4.01 at 15MB or PSS 4.04 at 30MB, and it has a much faster GUI.

 

The DSS has functionality for media servers, and a whole spattering of features which make it suitable for a major corporation running multiple DVR's at multiple locations--- probably making sense from around 100 dvr's or more.

[SEANHAWG 1]

Just curious as to why you stopped dealing with Dahua?

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

Just curious as to why you stopped dealing with Dahua?

 

I would rather not describe the full details, suffice to say that it involved dealership issues - with no control over cross selling into markets, and availability on the chinese market, we eventually started buying this cheaper from a Chinese market vendor ERT Technology than what Dahua was giving to their dealers. Of course shortly thereafter they dropped their prices significantly and when Chinese vendors in our market as well as European distributors of the brand started cross selling into our markets as well.

 

In our industry, one of the reasons why our network model and group purchasing process has worked is because , Integrators cannot get by competing against the same brand in their own markets, when a product meets the saturation phase in it's growth path any 50 different installers in one town are competing for 10% margin on the same brand. - if the distribution channel is not controlled.

 

In that case you find integrator loyalty to the brand tested by their dwindling margins.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

A major problem with online stores and many distributors is that they have moved the integrator out of the position they once held in the market - that of a bona fide retailer with specialist security knowledge.

 

They sell to the end users and to any installer in any location. Installers with the specialist security knowledge start having to shave costs to deliver and compete with hundreds of other installers all buying from the same place.

 

While they leave the installers fighting for pittances, whenever the really big contracts are awarded, they are awarded directly to the distributors that are kept in business mostly by the hoard of installers.

 

The end user is getting crappy equipment, no security knowledge, no support and no backup whatsoever - then the customers of these online gift store and dime a dozen distributors, come onto forums such as these asking and getting the information from the same installers that are bleeding under the onslaught ---- and what really amazes me is that these installers give the advice free - hoping to sell a camera or two in the process.

 

I have utter disregard for manufacturers who support that kind of security!

[rory 0]

On the flip side, the nice thing about online stores is that since they will sell to anyone, distributors now have to be more competitive and also they have less power over the installer as they know if they treat them like crap as many still do, the installer can simply go somewhere else in the matter of seconds.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

On the flip side, the nice thing about online stores is that since they will sell to anyone, distributors now have to be more competitive and also they have less power over the installer as they know if they treat them like crap as many still do, the installer can simply go somewhere else in the matter of seconds.

 

My experience has been different. Online stores bring such cheap pricing that distributors just know they are probably going to lose their sale if they sell to the installer and hope he on sells to the end user. What has the solution been --- distributors bypassing the installers and selling direct to the end users.

 

We don't sell on price, and our network purchasing solution means all our partners are getting virtually the same prices as the distributors - but I still see a pure selling scenario that leaves no margins for an installer to price in supplying his customer with the goods that will do the job, and enable him to service and support the customer for the lifespan of the product - as well as put food on their own tables.

 

How many online camera sellers really care about the security the end user actually gets --- and if they don't care about that, they should be in some other business.

 

I am 100% confident when saying that selling models like that employed by Hikvision and Dahua and many other chinese manufacturers, will always result in a shorter brand cycle than Sony, Honeywell and others for eg.

 

As long as you sell these brands, Installers will always be looking for the next best thing that will pump their margins by 5%.

 

The DIY market accounts for 20% of the market: The installers are the direct link to the other 80%, well lets minus the high end 30% that the distributors will supply themselves.

 

If you don't look after the installer, if you take the cream and leave them the spoils, if you force them to fight amongst themselves over margins , and compete with you at the retail level..........you will not enter the 30% high end market, you will not succeed the mainstream market 50% and you might get a small slice of the 20% low margin DIY sector.

 

Dahua was an excellent brand when we started with them, it was a top class , high end DVR. Today we see it's dealers having to make a case against $40 dvr's to try and sell it. The DVR is way above the class of others - but the caliber of dealers selling it have reduced it to the same market stream as $40 DVR's.

 

and the strangest thing is that when you try market the Dahua dvr as "cheap" you usually fail to sell it --- because there is always something cheaper -- what a pity that a potentially great product like that is dragged into the gutter with oem devices by dealers with no other value proposition than price.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Guest

[rory 0]

 

How many online camera sellers really care about the security the end user actually gets --- and if they don't care about that, they should be in some other business.

 

These days very few distributors really know what they are doing also.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

By service and support I mean an actual body , that will get in their vehicle and drive to your premises , climbing on ladders and testing your cable with a wide variety of testers.

 

Quality - Service - Price

 

Price is what is paid for a service or work done.

 

No online store is going to come out to your premises and render a service or work. - so the only service they render is to pack and ship your goods...hence the price is low!

 

If you want quality and service --- you can't pay just enough to pack and ship the goods.

[tomcctv 190]

By service and support I mean an actual body , that will get in their vehicle and drive to your premises , climbing on ladders and testing your cable with a wide variety of testers.

 

 

????

[rory 0]

By service and support I mean an actual body , that will get in their vehicle and drive to your premises , climbing on ladders and testing your cable with a wide variety of testers.

 

Quality - Service - Price

 

Price is what is paid for a service or work done.

 

No online store is going to come out to your premises and render a service or work. - so the only service they render is to pack and ship your goods...hence the price is low!

 

If you want quality and service --- you can't pay just enough to pack and ship the goods.

 

Ive never seen a distributor that will do that either

Most dont even stock the items like some online stores do.

Drop ship is the name of the game these days with US Distributors, and ofcourse most online stores also.

There is little difference between them these days.

 

Anyway, can we get back to the DSS software?

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

By service and support I mean an actual body , that will get in their vehicle and drive to your premises , climbing on ladders and testing your cable with a wide variety of testers.

 

Quality - Service - Price

 

Price is what is paid for a service or work done.

 

No online store is going to come out to your premises and render a service or work. - so the only service they render is to pack and ship your goods...hence the price is low!

 

If you want quality and service --- you can't pay just enough to pack and ship the goods.

 

Ive never seen a distributor that will do that either

Most dont even stock the items like some online stores do.

Drop ship is the name of the game these days with US Distributors, and ofcourse most online stores also.

There is little difference between them these days.

 

Anyway, can we get back to the DSS software?

 

I am taking about the installers. Those are the guys that service about 50% of the market. They are the guys that invest in personnel, training, vehicles, premises , and yes - expensive testing equipment. These are the people that have the resources and the tools and the knowledge to get the job done.

 

Resources however cost money. Online stores and Distributors, are selling at such low margins that the only resource they build up is just enough to give you prompt packaging and delivery.

 

The guys that have invested in the tools and the resources to get the job done, that pay the certification and training fees to regulatory bodies- are unable to compete with these online stores and distributors on price, because the have invested so much more to do so much more.

 

Nothing wrong with online stores - if you appreciate that what they offer is limited, and in most cases what they are selling is useless and overstated.

 

Just a few days ago I was approached by an online store that wanted to carry our products ---- My mail response was a few lines - in part!

 

We do not subscribe to the concept of DIY security, neither the commoditization of a serious product such as CCTV. Just as we do not encourage DIY home burglar and emergency alarm installations, so we do not approve of DIY CCTV and hence we cannot agree to have our products sold via this medium.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

DSS is a remnant of the initial Dahua vision - targeting mid to high end applications - which a few years ago they where well placed to focus upon.

 

Unfortunately in pursuit of more volumes - the perennial problem of the Chinese consumption based production models, they succumbed to selling channels that alienated them from that very high end integrator and project installer that would benefit from DSS.

 

Today the online stores and ebay sellers are the custodians of the dahua brand, fighting for market share right alongside the $40 oem dvr. As such DSS is a grossly misplaced white elephant and trying to sell it to the clientèle of online stores and ebay buyers, is unlikely to meet with much success.

[rory 0]

I am taking about the installers. Those are the guys that service about 50% of the market. They are the guys that invest in personnel, training, vehicles, premises , and yes - expensive testing equipment. These are the people that have the resources and the tools and the knowledge to get the job done.

 

Resources however cost money. Online stores and Distributors, are selling at such low margins that the only resource they build up is just enough to give you prompt packaging and delivery.

 

The guys that have invested in the tools and the resources to get the job done, that pay the certification and training fees to regulatory bodies- are unable to compete with these online stores and distributors on price, because the have invested so much more to do so much more.

 

Nothing wrong with online stores - if you appreciate that what they offer is limited, and in most cases what they are selling is useless and overstated.

 

Just a few days ago I was approached by an online store that wanted to carry our products ---- My mail response was a few lines - in part!

 

We do not subscribe to the concept of DIY security, neither the commoditization of a serious product such as CCTV. Just as we do not encourage DIY home burglar and emergency alarm installations, so we do not approve of DIY CCTV and hence we cannot agree to have our products sold via this medium.

 

Yeah but online stores are essentially distributors (online or otherwise). Installers can still buy from online stores the same they buy from distributors and get discounted pricing over end users, in fact in many cases they get better service and cheaper prices. I deal with both and they all have their problems, I had ALOT more problems dealing with the brick and mortar only distributors though, most barely even answer email. If you ask me, there is little difference now, except that online stores these days normally sell more brands than the average distributor, and offer a more limited direct warranty. Even with the limited warranty the online store normally gives (compared to a distributor), one still normally gets the warranty by the manufacturer. By online stores im talking about A1, 123, etc. not online hong kong sites or ebay or amazon. Online stores sell all the big brands by the way same as the brick and mortar distributors, plus online stores in some cases are brick and mortar distributors, eg. 123.

[rory 0]

DSS is a remnant of the initial Dahua vision - targeting mid to high end applications - which a few years ago they where well placed to focus upon.

 

Unfortunately in pursuit of more volumes - the perennial problem of the Chinese consumption based production models, they succumbed to selling channels that alienated them from that very high end integrator and project installer that would benefit from DSS.

 

Today the online stores and ebay sellers are the custodians of the dahua brand, fighting for market share right alongside the $40 oem dvr. As such DSS is a grossly misplaced white elephant and trying to sell it to the clientèle of online stores and ebay buyers, is unlikely to meet with much success.

 

on this side of the globe the majority selling Dahua are distributors who rebadge it with their name, and it costs alot more than $40 Not much more for a dealer to buy their cheapest unit though, but the HDMI units all cost alot more. Ive only found a couple online stores on this side selling Dahua but it was rebranded and cost much more than the distributor. But since this software is dating from 2009 looks like they might have as mentioned turned away from the high end approach, also seeing as they continue to bring out new entry level units.

[SEANHAWG 1]

This market is just like anything else, the demand for a cheaper product yet just as high performance product is always going to be there and manufacturers recognize that so they will continue to find ways to produce them. The web is just another revolution that changed the industry. And just with any market trend, you have to find ways to survive and adapt. Despite what the industry is like, people are still going to want installers. I havent really met an installer that has low margins. I know that there are still alot of installers that make very good money, probably some on this very board. I think that they deserve every penny of it because it is hard work.

 

I disagree with your statement that a Honeywell DVR would last longer than a Dahua DVR, I dont see that happening. Hard drives go bad but DVR's usually dont. And as far as features, to most end users, they do exactly the same and in some cases the Dahua exceeds in performance, the same can be said against many other high value brand name DVR suppliers as well. But this gets to my point, customers are not dumb, when comparing a Dahua DVR with say a dedicated micros DVR, they see that the Dahua in essence does everything a DM can do, but the Dahua costs 1/4 less, why in the world would they buy a DM? To me, the DM is like a Gucci or Prada product, its basically just as good as any purse that you could get from Target but you are paying for the brand name (sorry for the bad analogy, no I am not a purse fanatic). Unfortunately, this is how I think some of the major brands in the surveillance industry have become, eg honeywell, pelco, DM, etc. Just look at the price difference between a CNB camera and the same exact Honeywell camera, its crazy, what are they smoking.

[rory 0]

So anyone took the plunge and tried DSS yet?

 

its nice it can check the status of DVRs etc from the webpage but it wont send alerts ... hmmmm ..

Wonder if I can make a "tweak" to have it do that

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

DSS is a remnant of the initial Dahua vision - targeting mid to high end applications - which a few years ago they where well placed to focus upon.

 

Unfortunately in pursuit of more volumes - the perennial problem of the Chinese consumption based production models, they succumbed to selling channels that alienated them from that very high end integrator and project installer that would benefit from DSS.

 

Today the online stores and ebay sellers are the custodians of the dahua brand, fighting for market share right alongside the $40 oem dvr. As such DSS is a grossly misplaced white elephant and trying to sell it to the clientèle of online stores and ebay buyers, is unlikely to meet with much success.

 

on this side of the globe the majority selling Dahua are distributors who rebadge it with their name, and it costs alot more than $40 Not much more for a dealer to buy their cheapest unit though, but the HDMI units all cost alot more. Ive only found a couple online stores on this side selling Dahua but it was rebranded and cost much more than the distributor. But since this software is dating from 2009 looks like they might have as mentioned turned away from the high end approach, also seeing as they continue to bring out new entry level units.

 

My definition of distributor has an added dimension, in that the people behind it actually have knowledge of security as well as the systems they sell. There are many such on line people, and these people are endorsed by the manufacturers - The alternative is a whole array of on line stores selling cctv amongst giftshop items and usb hubs ---- traditionally, reputable manufacturers don't distribute their goods through those channels and via ebay.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

 

I disagree with your statement that a Honeywell DVR would last longer than a Dahua DVR,

 

Thats because that's not what i said --- the longevity of a brand - not the hardware, is very Dependant on the channels you use to distribute it.

[tesc_cctvpro 0]

This market is just like anything else, the demand for a cheaper product yet just as high performance product is always going to be there and manufacturers recognize that so they will continue to find ways to produce them. The web is just another revolution that changed the industry. And just with any market trend, you have to find ways to survive and adapt. Despite what the industry is like, people are still going to want installers. I havent really met an installer that has low margins. I know that there are still alot of installers that make very good money, probably some on this very board. I think that they deserve every penny of it because it is hard work.

 

I disagree with your statement that a Honeywell DVR would last longer than a Dahua DVR, I dont see that happening. Hard drives go bad but DVR's usually dont. And as far as features, to most end users, they do exactly the same and in some cases the Dahua exceeds in performance, the same can be said against many other high value brand name DVR suppliers as well. But this gets to my point, customers are not dumb, when comparing a Dahua DVR with say a dedicated micros DVR, they see that the Dahua in essence does everything a DM can do, but the Dahua costs 1/4 less, why in the world would they buy a DM? To me, the DM is like a Gucci or Prada product, its basically just as good as any purse that you could get from Target but you are paying for the brand name (sorry for the bad analogy, no I am not a purse fanatic). Unfortunately, this is how I think some of the major brands in the surveillance industry have become, eg honeywell, pelco, DM, etc. Just look at the price difference between a CNB camera and the same exact Honeywell camera, its crazy, what are they smoking.

 

LOL ---- let me introduce you to another kind of crazy. Some one who is selling a CCTV camera for $20 and making $1.

 

Seems to me the honeywells, etc are not the crazy ones.

 

LIke you said customers are not dumb --- except about 20% of them, Honeywell, Sony, Apple continue to sell and monopolize and will continue to sell long after other brands have passed.

 

It is when your only perception is based upon price, that this seems crazy to you. But there are a lot of really smart people running organizations like sony, apple, etc ---- and they are making a lot more money than the people that think they are crazy, and they have a dedicated, satisfied customer base that will keep buying from them regardless of what their prices are.

 

From one perspective it seems crazy, and fadist ------ but then the real issues that really matter, and that make money, and that make people buy from you even if you're more expensive ---- seem to escape that 20% --- because that is the researched size of the DIY market not more than 20% in any market.

 

It's the companies and brands who ascribe stupidity to their customers - imagining that price alone is the only criteria or concern to would be buyers, that fall by the wayside.

 

Who of us wants to go out and buy a cheap product, brag about the great price, and find that after a week it no longer works --- how dumb does that make us look? Now how much is that worth to your customer --- how much would your customer pay just to avoid looking stupid on a risky purchase.

 

You can do all the special technical comparisons, and price bidding --- but if you fail to recognize that the customers value base very often has nothing to do with tech spec and performance - you are unlikely to succeed.

 

Those "crazies" as you call them have spent millions of dollars researching their customers value base, establishing what the customers actually want on a level that goes way beyond the product you're selling and the price of producing a satisfactory product of itself goes beyond pure manufacturing cost. So when you compare your inputs and profit margin, against theirs - it can impossibly appear to be crazy!

 

You can have the best product, but allow it to be sold on e-bay, or from a mom and pop store amongst the toothpaste and you will without doubt find that the customers over riding value basis has a lot more to do with non tech, product issues.

 

Biggest mistake of the budget brigade - the guys who sales pitch is d1 this, CIF that, 420TVL here and CCD there--- they don't ever get to know what their customers actually want!

[SEANHAWG 1]

I'm not saying they havent researched their customer base, nor have I said they arent reputable companies, etc. I am just saying that there are several brand name companies that charge way too much for their products, my example was the honeywell camera that is more than twice as much as the CNB camera. That is crazy. If I had a choice to by product A or product B and they were the same exact product but Product A was twice as much as product B, which product do you think I am going to buy? Thats my point. And thats how MOST customers think, does that make it right? I dont know, but thats how it is.

 

LOL ---- let me introduce you to another kind of crazy. Some one who is selling a CCTV camera for $20 and making $1.

 

That is crazy, and you would go out of business really quick, more dumb than crazy. But we are not talking about obviously cheap equipment that noone can use, we are talking about good brand name equipment compared to equipment that is just as equal but with a 10 times higher price tag. Take CNB for example, Good camera, good brand, good warranty. If a supplier purchased the camera at $120 and sold it at $125, that is crazy in my opinion, I wouldnt do it. But its not real crazy for the buyer to buy it. If I am a buyer and I see the camera for sale for $125 from store A and store B has it for sell for $250. You can bet that most people will buy it from Store A, you can try to sell all the warranty, tech support, etc jive all you want, but the majority of people will buy the cheaper camera. This is why we dont sell CNB anymore, too many other stores selling it for cheaper. But I dont blame the buyer for buying it cheaper because I would do the same thing. Now I will say that there are some products that just dont compare and it would make alot more sense to buy the more expensive product, actually there are alot of cases like that. But when you are comparing 2 of the same products, or essentially the same, with essentially the same warranty details and all of that, people are always going to go with the cheaper product.

 

And you see big companies going down or hurting financially all the time because of cheaper and better alternatives, it happens. Examples, Blockbuster, companies invested totally in Cable TV, AOL. Just look at the prices that DM,Pelco, and Honeywell charge for their DVR's and equipment, and look at the prices that you can get just as an equally comparable DVR and/or equipment for from Avermedia, Dahua, CNB, its usually a quarter less. Brand recognition combined with high prices will only get you so far, they may be getting away with it now, but unless they change their pricing strategy, I see them hurting in a few years. I mean when do you really here of people buying new Honeywell surveillance camera equipment nowadays? Good thing Honeywell has so much other stuff to diversify its portfolio with. And other than their PTZ's, I dont really hear of hardly anyone purchasing new Pelco cameras or DVR's anymore. This is just another reason why noone buys HDCCTV, because IP cameras and equipment are cheaper and better. You can try to push the limited number of advantages that it has over IP but when all things considered, it make a ton more sense to buy IP. Again, people are not dumb.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread. I'll leave it alone from here. Boy that DSS software is cool, LOL.